Possible MASSIVE Naruto Upgrades

[Gogeta46power]

Alright, so first of all, in one of the episodes Six Paths Sage Naruto was able to dodge Madara's Jutsu, Sage Art:- Storm Release Light Fang, which, as said by Kishimoto in the guidebooks, is an attack that cuts through everything at the speed of light, while it was roughly about 3-4 inches from Naruto's head. He was able to duck in the anime to avoid it, and Sasuke was also able to blitz Madara at one point. This could potentially mean Lightspeed Sage Mode reactions, especially since Naruto was also able to react to attacks from Madara's limbo clones, which exist on a different plane of existence. Additionally, both Naruto and Sasuke were able to damage Kaguya in the manga by either punching or clone attacking her as shown here. https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11120/111201000/4603559-2989008782-43033.png*

Additionally, as shown in Boruto, the villains, Kinshiki and Momoshiki were feared by Kaguya, a Planet-level being, and Kinshiki is also strong enough to split Planets as shown in the data books and could potentially be stronger than Kaguya, as she saw them as a threat as confirmed before in the series, they should logically be as strong as, if not stronger than her. Yet Sasuke, while fatigued and without the Mangekyou turned on, with one hand, duelled Kinshiki and afterwards, when Momoshiki absorbs most Naruto's chakra as well as Kinshiki's entire chakra, Naruto and Sasuke run at and severely damage Momoshiki, beating him in brutally as shown here.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CXwOJx7ePwSo this could mean both Naruto and Sasuke may be well above Planetary, depending on the scaling. Especially with all the heavy evidence which Kishimoto himself confirmed as well as Kaguya being piss-scared of Kinshiki and Momoshiki. How far would this buff go up to?

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Err, the first one has been discussed plenty times and is against the rules. There was a calculation for the second one that put it at Small Planet level or something, but I think it was deemed as a hyperbole. Can't really remember.

 

[RoyGundam]

Unfortunately, Seth doesn't have a good reputation here.

 

[Reppuzan]

The Light Fang has been discussed dozens of times as hyperbole and an outlier since is is a Storm Release technique, which certainly does not act like light given how it bends and warps.

We don't know the specifics of Kaguya's apprehension when facing Momoshiki and Kinshiki, though I believe it was more because of the fact that Momoshiki could break down chakra-based attacks than anything else.

 

[Ryop]

The Light Fang has been discussed dozens of times as hyperbole and an outlier since is is a Storm Release technique, which certainly does not act like light given how it bends and warps.
We don't know the specifics of Kaguya's apprehension when facing Momoshiki and Kinshiki, though I believe it was more because of the fact that Momoshiki could break down chakra-based attacks than anything else.

Guy benting space's feat dont put him in Sub-Relativistic+ speed or something?

OP-about Madara lightspeed,i dont we should take the Databook as canon i mean i pertty sure that one of the Databook even claim that Haku is lightspeed so Madara=Haku? those not good source to rely on

 

[Reppuzan]

@Ryop

I don't know enough about physics to give you a clear answer on that, but I'm fairly certain that light doesn't warp the space it passes through despite being exponentially faster.

 

[Gogeta46power]

Also Naruto still punched Kaguya in the face and in the databooks it is stated before Kinshiuki can split worlds.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Kinshiki's hypothetical feat was calculated, but was regarded as a hyperbole.

 

[Gogeta46power]

What about Momoshiki? He absorbed Naruto's chakra and Kinshiki while being feared by Kaguya

 

[Reppuzan]

@Gogeta

IIRC, Naruto and Sasuke were admittedly rusty during that time, and a single Odama Rasengan was able to one-shot Kinshiki once the Rinnegan problem was taken care of. So I'm also skeptical of an upgrade.

 

[Gwynbleiddd]

Being feared by Kaguya is probably due to Momoshiki's ability to absorb attacks and then use them himself, not his attack power.

The fact that Momoshiki got defeated twice, once by Naruto and Sasuke and then by Boruto who used Naruto's chakra should be pretty concrete evidence that he isn't anywhere near Kaguya's level of power.

In the manga Naruto seems to be reacting to Madara's head movement and not the expansion of the beam itself, so there is another point against Lightspeed Naruto.

 

[Muuuuh]

Planetary Naruto already is forced. LS and planet+ is just idiot

 

[Gogeta46power]

he got his shit rekt and Boruto used Naruto's power to attack him and also had help from Sasuke

 

[Gwynbleiddd]

The rasengan with Naruto's chakra one shotted him and he was in a pretty good condition.

Also please refrain yourself from using phrases like "shit rekt"

 

[RoyGundam]

@Ryop
I don't know enough about physics to give you a clear answer on that, but I'm fairly certain that light doesn't warp the space it passes through despite being exponentially faster.

No, the part about bending space through speed comes from the fact that momentum greatly increases when speeds reach close to lightspeed and is expressed as a gain in mass (Special Relativity) - this increase in mass could theoretically warp space via gravity (which, according to General Relativity is simply mass-induced deformations in space-time).

 

[Gogeta46power]

Sorry bout that

 

[Gwynbleiddd]

Space doesn't bend the way it was presented in the manga so using relativity to support a speed upgrade may not be the best idea.

I think there was another translation that stated that Guy bent the air or something, though i'm not sure so it would be best to find the original source and give it to someone who can translate it.

 

[RoyGundam]

If we accept this Relativity based explanation then Gai would be practically lightspeed (because such effects would manifest only a hair's breadth away from lightspeed) but I don't think it would scale to any other character because it is a crazy feat that no one else has replicated in Naruto-verse

 

[Gogeta46power]

Didnt Naruto punch Kaguya in the face?

 

[RoyGundam]

@Gwynn I'm pretty sure Madara said "kuuka" which is translated as space/airspace/room. In the context of it's use, I'd say space is the most accurate translation. Also, Mangakas are generally not adept at Physics, saying "Space doesn't bend the way it was presented in the manga" is a rather weak cop out IMO

 

[Muuuuh]

Didnt Naruto punch Kaguya in the face?

Sakura punchs kaguya in the face too

 

[Gogeta46power]

For Sakura it is an outlier and should be major PIS

 

[Omimi]

The Light Fang has been discussed dozens of times as hyperbole and an outlier

kcm naruto = Mach 57161 if wiki accept ay as lightning speed user

Sasuke's Perception scale to itachi's Perception

itachi was able to react to kirin but sasuke fail to react to ay

so ay speed>sasuke reaction>Kirin speed

if we use lightning speed from Official Translation then the ruselt will be at least 10x(kcm naruto speed)

the problem is that wiki does not accept lightning speed from Official Translation

 

[Ryop]

The Light Fang has been discussed dozens of times as hyperbole and an outlier

kcm naruto = Mach 57161 if wiki accept ay as lightning speed user
Sasuke's Perception scale to itachi's Perception

itachi was able to react to kirin but sasuke fail to react to ay

so ay speed>sasuke reaction>Kirin speed

if we use lightning speed from Official Translation then the ruselt we will be at least 10x(kcm naruto speed)

the problem is that wiki does not accept lightning speed from Official Translation

actually i think that KCM naruto Sub-Relativistic should be consider as outlier becuse the 5 kages were able to fight and almost win against Madara who also Sub-Relativistic by that logic(stronger than KCM and able to react KCM naruto) and the 5 kages are supposeto be only MHS+(becuse A is the fastest and he is MHS+) so that not make any sense that Madara wasn't able to easily blitzspeed them since the difference between Sub-Relativistic and MHS+ is huge


even if you try to tell me that the 5 kages are also Sub-Relativistic that make it no sense eitther becuse than naruto's speed will be FTL+ due to this and the same thing about Madara so this is like the same scenario i say in the first paragraph

 

[Reppuzan]

@Omimi

If you can get the calculation group and Naruto experts' okays, then fine. Otherwise no dice.

 

[AppleLord]

1. Naruto has pre-cog.

2. Sakura also punch her and we don't know if it did anything at all since Kaguya doesn't bleed,

3. I think is fair to upgrade them to Planet level.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

actually i think that KCM naruto Sub-Relativistic should be consider as outlier becuse the 5 kages were able to fight and almost win against Madara

Um, when was this a thing? Im pretty sure Madara was playing with them that whole fight and just swatted them like flies in the end. He came back to meet up with Obito without so much as a scratch and talked as if he didnt even break a sweat.

Also, didnt Tsunade and Ay attack Madara while using Mabui's Heavenly Transfer Technique, which is Light Speed Teleportation?

 

[RoyGundam]

"the 5 kages were able to fight and almost win against Madara" - nice joke. Madara absolutely LOLStomped them, in fact, Speed-wise, Madara LOLstomped everyone, including Tobirama and Minato and then was absolutely helpless against Night Gai.

 

[BarryAllen2.0]

I calced Gai's feat on t5, it's a massive outlier, for someone to be travel fast enough to warp Space like he did would require them to be moving Hundreds if not thousands of times faster that light. No, xcorrection, Just for the average man to move fast enough to gain earths mass via speed is hndreds if not thousands times faster than light, and earth's mass can't bend space enough to warp even a metal pipe let alone a TSB that is hundreds of thousands times more durable/dense.

 

[Omimi]

@Ryop wrote: actually i think that KCM naruto Sub-Relativistic should be consider as outlier

if we r going to consider every speed feats from 1 verse as outlier

naruto verse will never get any speed upgrades

also kcm naruto is way faster than aye when naruto use his top speed

+even ay himself wont be scale to kcm naruto so

so other kage is out of question

+in this whole manga

after achieving kcm mode naruto only used his top speed mex 5 time

+naruto didn't even use his top speed against madara so why bring him in this topic

 

[Reppuzan]

@Omimi

The problem is the fact the calcs have numerous errors or misdoings that go against wiki policy. If you want upgrades, the calcs have to be done properly.

 

[Omimi]

@Reppuzan

kk

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

The light fang feat just keeps being brought up huh, slightly annoying now i think.

 

[Burstchaos]

The anime confirms that Naruto definitely did dodge the Light Fang rather than the head movement, and after he dodged it, Madara moved his head to try to get him again. Though we're not allowed to use the anime, I think.

 

[Lina_Shields]

First off, if the whole Light Fang being Lightspeed is from the guidebook, we need to find the original Japanese version of the guidebook that states this and translate it to see if it is correct or not.

We also need to check Temari's universe hyperbole and Haku's lightspeed mirror description in the Naruto guidebook to see if the original Japanese version of the guidebook actually states it.

The manga displays Light Fang in a rather vague manner, although the anime displays the Light Fang technique as a straight beam of light/laser.

 

[Omimi]

@Lina Shields

Haku's lightspeed mirror it state in the manga too

+it shown that its true

every manga has 1 or 2 Outlier /Plot Induced Stupidity/ Inconsistency/hyperbole

but we dont discard the whole things do we

just cause Naruto guidebook has 1 or 2 Outlier /Plot Induced Stupidity/ Inconsistency/hyperbole

we cant discard the whole things

kcm naruto = Mach 57161 if dont accept ay as lightning speed user then u can use Power-scaling

if we use lightning speed from Official Translation then the ruselt will be at least 10x(kcm naruto speed)

atleast 50% SoL

if kcm naruto has speed = 50% SoL its resonable to think that Light Fang being Lightspeed was not hyperbole

but Antvasima told me that we cant use lightning speed from Official Translation

 

[Authorofall]

Haku's Ice mirrors isn't complicated to understand; don't make it out to be.

-- The Demonic Ice Mirror is a Kekkei Genkai, which enhances his perception considerably -- this is why Naruto and Sasuke appear to be moving in "slow motion" to him, even though earlier on he was roughly just on par with Sasuke.

--He's able to transport himself from mirror to mirror at LS—this is also why he's able to simultaneously appear in all mirrors. The Kid doesn't move at LS when he attacks; LS only applies when he's in a mirror transporting himself to another mirror.

Now, When Ice Mirrors Kekkei Genkai is activated, Haku's perception is to the point where he could easily perceive Kakashi, Zabuza, Gai and Lee, and completely speedblitz Sai and his division, so he's MHS either way. The issue with him is his appalling stamina.

 

[Gemmysaur]

I looked around and the universal Temari thing was really meant to be hyperbole, as it was a headline of sorts.

 

[Omimi]

@Gemmysaur

thanks i was really tried to find it but couldn't

i agree that some time headline tend to be hyperbole

 

[RoyGundam]

@Barry you are either trolling or your calculations are totally wrong. By Relativity, there is no need or possibility for going faster than the speed of Light