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Possible downgrades for the Courier/Lone Wanderer + a few other things

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EmbalmerMaster9000

VS Battles
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Now, I've played through Fallout: New Vegas and Fallout 3, and I can tell you two things:

1. You cannot tank an experimental MIRV point blank in Fo3.

2. There are no experimental MIRVs in Fallout: New Vegas.

According to the wiki, the Experimental MIRV deals 12,800 damage, as compared to the 635 or so health the Lone Wanderer has at the very most.

According to the damage resistance page , the highest amount of damage resistance possible in FO3 is 94%. Assuming that it reduces it by that amount:

0.06 x 12,800 = 768, still enough to instakill the Lone Wanderer.

Basically, what this means is that the AP of the Lone Wanderer should still be 8-B, but the durability should be 8-C or so.

Now, you may be asking "But what about the sole survivor?!". To be honest on this one, I am not very sure. Going by the near-limitless level cap, a player could get strong enough to endure one or more MIRVs dropped onto their head with enough armor, so this could _possibly_ slide. Otherwise, not sure.

Onto the next topic, the Courier:

There are no MIRVs in FO:NV, so we can't just slap an 8-B rating onto his profile and call it a day. Rather, there's an entirely seperate feat I have in mind:

In OWB (That one addon where you get teleported into a dome or something), the Courier fights againsta gigantic roboscorpio, which he can also endure several physical hits from with the best gear (According to the amount of damage it deals on this page ) and even push it around with physical blows with bumper swords. Assuming that it's a similar size to Liberty Prime's model, it could possibly go for a solid High 8-C rating that scales to the Courier and other similarly powerful characters, otherwise, I do not really know.

The 8-C ratings currently on their profiles seem fine to me, as the laser weapons in FO3, FO:NV and FO4 have the same effect of turning humans into ashes.

For the "other stuff" mentioned in the title, the Courier should have the ability to ignore durability to an extent through a handful of weapons, such as the industrial hand, which can ignore defenses provided by armor.

The "Winterized power armor being near-unbreakable" should be considered a gameplay mechanic as, according to this page , the power armor recieved in the wasteland is the simulation variant of it (Simulation items have absurdly high item HP), which is unintended.
 
I am too tired to properly evaluate this, but would appreciate community input.
 
That is correct. I think that we link to the calculation in the attack potency page.
 
God-King Superman77 said:
Turning humans to ashes is 9-A.
Thank you for correcting me.

So basically, their (The Courier's, Lone Wanderer's, and the Sole Survivor's) standard equipment gets downgraded to 9-A, which sorta scales to how well weapons in that tier (For example, Anti-Materiel Rifles) can take down deathclaws, which are occassionally 9-A due to their size.
 
According to the wiki, the Experimental MIRV deals 12,800 damage, as compared to the 635 or so health the Lone Wanderer has at the very most.

According to the damage resistance page , the highest amount of damage resistance possible in FO3 is 94%. Assuming that it reduces it by that amount:

0.06 x 12,800 = 768, still enough to instakill the Lone Wanderer.

Basically, what this means is that the AP of the Lone Wanderer should still be 8-B, but the durability should be 8-C or so.

Those are all Game Mechanics
 
We have to gauge by actual feats, not by game mechanics, yes.
 
LoyalservantofInti said:
According to the wiki, the Experimental MIRV deals 12,800 damage, as compared to the 635 or so health the Lone Wanderer has at the very most.

According to the damage resistance page , the highest amount of damage resistance possible in FO3 is 94%. Assuming that it reduces it by that amount:

0.06 x 12,800 = 768, still enough to instakill the Lone Wanderer.

Basically, what this means is that the AP of the Lone Wanderer should still be 8-B, but the durability should be 8-C or so.
Those are all Game Mechanics
To word it in a way that doesn't sound like game mechanics, the Lone Wanderer cannot survive the full force of an experimental MIRV at point blank range, if that changes anything.

Despite that, the wording on the profile (in the durability section) states that he can survive multiple missile explosions at point blank range. Whether the person who made the profile meant mini-nuke missiles or not confuses me.
 
Going to revive this thread again, great apologies for this.

I'm still a bit iffy about the 8-B rating regarding the protagonists/characters capable of fighting on par with a endgame protagonist

It is possible for plasma and laser weaponry to turn deathclaws into goo or ash respectively, so the Lone Wanderer, Courier, and Sole Survivor would most likely be at a higher end of 9-A.

Not only that, but the Sole Survivor's weaponry at its peak can vaporize Mirelurk queens, which appear to be much larger than entities such as deathclaws.

Mini-calc
Now, from my knowledge, creatures such as Yao-Guai - which are mutated American black bears - can be affected by the laser weaponry's vaporization, too.

Adolescent American black bears weigh up to 240 lbs, or 108.862 KG.

Now, I will perform the same exact methods as this calculation here (The one linked on the attack potency page), assuming that bears would have identical chemical composition akin to that of a human, so it may be (super) off. Explanations for the source of information found on the blog. I will also use the same calculator that FanofRPGs used in that aforementioned blog.

Water
60% of the bear's mass is water, which would be 65.3172 KG, plugging this value into the calculator with the temperature change (Listed on the blog, 1343.5 degrees celsius) as well as the specific heat capacity of water grants us 366634783.9596 joules

Body fat
17% of its mass would be body fat (Specific heat for it is 2348 joules/kg), so the mass of the fat would be 18.50654 KG. Plugging the specific heat of the fat as well as the aforementioned temperature change grants us 58379583.67852 joules

Protei
Protein would make up 16% of its body mass (17.41792 kilograms). Plugging this value in as well as the latent heat (3421 joules/kg) grants us 80054737.25392 joules

Minerals
Minerals make up 6% of its body mass, or 6.53172 kilograms. Plugging this value in as well as the latent heat (1313 joules/kg) grants us 11522055.32166 joules

S U G A R
Carbohydrates make up 1% of its body mass, or 1.08862 kg. Plugging this value in as well as its latent heat (1255 joules/kg) grants us 1835514.01735 joules

A D D I N G V A L U E S
Simply enough, I total up the amount of joules required to vaporize the bear by adding up each of the calculated variables.

1835514.01735 + 11522055.32166 + 80054737.25392 + 58379583.67852 + 366634783.9596 = 518426674.231 joules, or 0.1239069489079828 tons of TNT

Small building level, albeit VERY close to the mid-line (+ rating) for it.

I'm fairly certain laser weaponry are capable of vaporizing yao-guai at any point of the game if I am correct, unless I am wrong. I am willing to post this on a blog if I decide I'd want to get this accepted
 
Can the plasma/laser weapons not also vaporize giant super mutants, i.e. much larger than a muscular human in each dimension? I think I also recall vaporizing a Deathclaw or two throughout the game. (Wierdly, I also remember surviving direct shots from such weapons when they were wielded by enemies, though perhaps I misremember)

It's been a while since I've taken a look at those profiles, but I find any feats that might better justify their current rankings I'll get back to you? The math thus far looks solid enough, at any rate.
 
It is better if you post your calculations in a blog, and ThePerpetual then evaluates it.
 
Anywho, posted the calc into the blog alongside calcing vaporization of a giant roboscorpion (With a video showing it happening) to be around 8-B+, so it, ironically, upgrades endgame Courier from baseline 8-B to around 5.5x baseline 8-B.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...ut:_BEAR_BURNING_PRANK_GONE_WRONG_IN_THE_HOOD

On the topic of turning the courier into an absolute beast with these upgrades, the player can move at a portion of the speed of the projectile as fired from the holorifle, which fires light projectiles.

Now, the proof, you may ask?

1. It uses microfusion cells - the same ammunition that powers AER9 laser weapons - which are stated to have the power from the MF cells to be processed through a "wave/particle diverter". The lasers are - after this processed - are able to be refracted through a prism, as according to the description for the metal blaster variant.

2. The holorifle's background information states that it was created utilizing technology from Big MT - a dome that welcomes some of the most gifted pre-war scientists. Which then leads to the holograms themselves - in which the gun's technology is derived from.

3. The hologram emitters that create the holograms appear to be prism-like objects, which most likely prove refraction.

4. The hologram entities are incapable of being attacked due to their nature of being made out of light, which the of which the light beam dodging feats page states which would prove that it would not be light. But, since normal humans/various projectiles cannot make contact with it due to its nature of being light, it is light.

Given that the 'hologram technology' is produced by some of the most gifted scientists within FO:NV as well as the fact that it is intangible by normal beings and is created by prism-like objects, I will assume that it is real light, I'm open to any counter-arguments at the moment.
 
So whatever happened with this? The 8B+ for for Courier's AP makes sense, and it should scale to his durability since he can withstand attacks from enemies wielding the same weapons as him (the kind that can vaporize robo-scorpions).

Neutral on the light speed Courier thing
 
Thread was revived, good.

I can agree with that notion. I do recall there being a weapon in FO:NV that shoots soundwaves the player can move a portion of the speed of. Even though the light thing might be correct (for the reasoning, at least), the consistency regarding transonic/subsonic might be a bit more consistent with bullet dodging and whatnot.

I could also probably do a calc on the VATS things that stops opponents dead in their tracks to calculate reaction speed or whatever.

Likewise, given that I've learned to use square cube law a bit more effectively, I can probably recalculate the roboscorpion vaporization thing and - by addition - the deathclaw vaporization (For better results).

Also, bit of a correction; there's an Experimental MIRV-like weapon in FO:NV, but I'm fairly certain you can't survive a point-blank blast from it either.
 
Nice, always happy to beef up the the Falloutverse. I'll test out the MIRV thing later on when I get the chance. Though I don't think my character is strong enough to survive it cause of the build I have (the best armor on my person is the riot armor)
 
Anywho, I redid the Deathclaw vaporization (or at least reducing to ash) calculations and got 0.37 tons of TNT (8-C), assuming that the deathclaw is larger than a human in three different dimensions (Length, width, height). I'm probably going to re-do it (alongside the roboscorpion thing) on a blog at some point.
 
Question: would any of this scale to his striking strength? I'm pretty sure you can harm enemies with your bare fists depending on how you upgrade, but I'm pretty sure the damage caused is usually minimal at best.

Also, can't you disintegrate the Deathclaw Mother, who is noticeably bigger and stronger then most Deathclaws
 
It probably can, given that you can harm enemies capable of taking such attacks, but it should be separated by keys like "At base", "With basic equipment", and/or "With all equipment". IIRC, there are various perks boost melee damage and whatnot.

I can probably calculate the deathclaw mother thing if you give me a size comparison between it and a nomral deathclaw.
 
Well, we can only scale from the weapons that the character can withstand, not take percentages from weapons that will easily kill him, as that is likely game mechanics.
 
Could the Courier be justified for Baseline 8A?

He's already more then halfway into 8A with a casual attack, from a laser gun, with zero buffs in any way.
 
I do not think so. Sorry. "At least 8-B" might work though.
 
Probably not. Sorry. That could mean a wide variety of power levels.
 
Well it would only scale to his attack potency with that one weapon, and it has a charge up time, and I'm pretty sure it one shots basically every character in the game, the player included, so it's basically a god tier weapon that scales to no one.
 
Well, all you can do is mention a "likely higher with the Euclid C-Finder (It is stated to use the raw power of the Sun)", as we do not know the exact temperatures involved.
 
I can easily agree with Ant, given that the weapon in question is a powerful "eradicate anything in a single hit" kind of weapon in addition to the fact that the "power of the sun can be very subjective", it can probably be an "at least 8-B rating".

I can probably calculate the Courier's speed in comparison to the soundwave with a rather simple "time it takes to reach destination" comparison. Video here.

Using 25 frames per second; the gun is fired at frame 94 and "fades" (Hits the pole, as it visually dissipates when it hits an object) at frame 143.

143 - 94 = 49 frames.

49 / 25 = 1.96 seconds

At frame 164, the player starts walking and reaches the pole at frame 271

271 - 164 = 107 frames

107 / 25 = 4.28 seconds

4.28 / 1.96 = 2.18367347 times slower

Using 343 M/S, being the speed of sound above speed level:

343 / 2.18367347 = 157.074766 M/S, or Mach 0.457943924

Subsonic


I'm willing to say this can probably scale to other iterations of characters within the other 3-D fallout games (Fallout 3, Fallout 4) given that there exists identical enemies that use sound-based attacks that the player can additionally avoid.
 
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