Pokemon Weather trio CRT

[XXKINGXX69]

Rayquaza gets a resistance to electricity in its base as it took Zap Cannon from Wally's Magnezone. Zap Cannon is one of the most powerful electric type moves, but Rayquaza didnt take much damage from it

Rayquaza and all dragon type pokemon who can fly get platform creation: Dragon types create a vapor trail that is invisible which allows other pokemon to stand on mid air. Here is rayquaza doing it

Rayquaza gets explosion manipulation via Hyper Beam

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Groudon's Primal Form gets a resistance to Absolute Zero because it took no damage from an Ice Beam when Latias used it. Groudon was hit by Black Kyurem's Sheer Cold and then broke out a minute later. Groudon also survived and melted primal kyogre's sheer cold.

Base Groudon gets electricity absorption with the move Thunder.

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Base Kyogre gets minor resistance to electricity (it is weak to it but can still survive weaker pokemon electricity which is millions of volts). Here it used meditate to increase sp def to become immune to Thunder Wave's paralysis, and without any amps, tanked a trained Manectric's electric attack, and is unharmed from Team Rocket's electric net so its limited resistance

Kyogre also gets resistance to OHKO via surviving Fissure, but I have a CRT later to explain why its actually canon that it can OHKO pokemon regardless of durability

Primal Kyogre gets explosion manipulation via Origin Pulse

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One last thing, when mega rayquaza mega evolved and roared, Kyogre and Groudon could somehow tell, and awaken, even though they were far away (probably continent distance). Should this be like possible minor clairvoyance or something?

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Scan additions:

For speed, Kyogre dodged solar beam and Flash Cannon (in primal form) after they were fired

For planet level justifications, Primal Kyogre and Groudon almost collapsed the planet according to the myth

 

[Zeifyl]

For Rayquaza, I agree with everything except the electricity resistance. Rayquaza is on a whole other level than Magnezone, and logically should be unaffected due to the sheer difference in AP/Dura between them.
Don't have any comments on the other two yet, as I am currently a bit sleepy.

 

[theultimate5105]

I disagree with Rayquaza getting resistence to electricity because it was a large AP difference.
I Agree with everything else (the OHKO thing though needs further justification for this thread)

 

[XXKINGXX69]

For Rayquaza, I agree with everything except the electricity resistance. Rayquaza is on a whole other level than Magnezone, and logically should be unaffected due to the sheer difference in AP/Dura between them.
Don't have any comments on the other two yet, as I am currently a bit sleepy.

I disagree with Rayquaza getting resistence to electricity because it was a large AP difference.
I Agree with everything else (the OHKO thing though needs further justification for this thread)

Having durability doesnt grant resistance to electricity

 

[Zeifyl]

Having durability doesnt grant resistance to electricity

"In real life, electricity with high amplitudes can atrophy nerves (causing paralysis) and also interfere with the functions of organs such as the heart and brain, and would likely ignore the durability of characters made out materials with enough conductivity due to this fact. However, as electricity hardly ever acts this way in fiction, this doesn't apply to electrical attacks that don't have a stated amplitude or have demonstrated these powers."
From the page on Electricity Manipulation. It does not ignore durability, unless specifically shown to ignore durability. Electricity resistance is a clear no.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

For Rayquaza, I agree with everything except the electricity resistance. Rayquaza is on a whole other level than Magnezone, and logically should be unaffected due to the sheer difference in AP/Dura between them.

According to Ruby, Wally's Magnezone would have won the fight

 

[XXKINGXX69]

"In real life, electricity with high amplitudes can atrophy nerves (causing paralysis) and also interfere with the functions of organs such as the heart and brain, and would likely ignore the durability of characters made out materials with enough conductivity due to this fact. However, as electricity hardly ever acts this way in fiction, this doesn't apply to electrical attacks that don't have a stated amplitude or have demonstrated these powers."
From the page on Electricity Manipulation. It does not ignore durability, unless specifically shown to ignore durability. Electricity resistance is a clear no.

"Unless shown to"

Electricity in Pokemon acts like real life electricity

 

[Zeifyl]

"Unless shown to"

Electricity in Pokemon acts like real life electricity

For the most part. The only exception is consistently NOT bypassing durability. More durable Pokemon, regardless of type, take less damage from Electric attacks.

According to Ruby, Wally's Magnezone would have won the fight

In that case, there shouldn't be an issue.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

For the most part. The only exception is consistently NOT bypassing durability. More durable Pokemon, regardless of type, take less damage from Electric attacks.

Yes, which makes those Pokemon have a resistance to electricity. Prove with scans that they don't bypass conventional durability like real life electricity

 

[Zeifyl]

Yes, which makes those Pokemon have a resistance to electricity. Prove with scans that they don't bypass conventional durability like real life electricity

Actually, the burden of proof is on you to prove that it does bypass durability. This whole discussion started because you, with zero evidence to back it up, claimed that it does.
So, please, provide scans of a weak Electric type, such as a Shinx, oneshotting a strong Pokemon like a Snorlax. If your claim is true, such feats should be plentiful. And remember to discard feats made by Pokemon of especially powerful trainers like Ash, Gold, Rai, Leon, ect., as those feats may just be from the intense training the Pokemon has gone through.
Additionally, best to only use feats where the one being oneshot is either neutral towards, or resistant towards, Electric, via typing, to further eliminate other reasons it could have been a oneshot.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Actually, the burden of proof is on you to prove that it does bypass durability. This whole discussion started because you, with zero evidence to back it up, claimed that it does.
So, please, provide scans of a weak Electric type, such as a Shinx, oneshotting a strong Pokemon like a Snorlax. If your claim is true, such feats should be plentiful. And remember to discard feats made by Pokemon of especially powerful trainers like Ash, Gold, Rai, Leon, ect., as those feats may just be from the intense training the Pokemon has gone through.
Additionally, best to only use feats where the one being oneshot is either neutral towards, or resistant towards, Electric, via typing, to further eliminate other reasons it could have been a oneshot.

Because normal electricity does bypass durability and it acts like normal electricity? I didnt say it can one shot strong Pokemon like Snorlax

 

[DaReaperMan]

"But it generally acts like normal electricity!" Isn't exactly a sound argument, as the Electricity Manipulation page dictates that we need stated or shown proof of electricity dura negging.

 

[Zeifyl]

Because normal electricity does bypass durability and it acts like normal electricity? I didnt say it can one shot strong Pokemon like Snorlax

So, we agree then. Greater durability allows someone to tank Electric attacks. Otherwise, the hypothetical Shinx could easily oneshot the hypothetical Snorlax.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Rayquaza gets a resistance to electricity in its base as it took Zap Cannon from Wally's Magnezone. Zap Cannon is one of the most powerful electric type moves, but Rayquaza didnt take much damage from it.

It's just stronger. Makes no sense using in-universe logic, Dragon/Flying takes neutral damage from Electric

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Because normal electricity does bypass durability and it acts like normal electricity? I didnt say it can one shot strong Pokemon like Snorlax

How the fictional electricity acts does not translate how it affects others. Your argument is a very clear non-sequitur.

 

[Arceus0x]

I'll write up a reply later since I'm at a hospital but i disagree with most points here for a few reasons. One being the refutes above and the other being that we don't use the hoopa movie for scaling which has been accepted countless times. Also where's the evidence that Zekrom uses sheer cold and not just ice beam?

 

[Zeifyl]

I'll write up a reply later since I'm at a hospital

Oh my god, are you alright?!

 

[GodlyCharmander]

I'll write up a reply later since I'm at a hospital.

Hope you get well soon. What happened?

 

[Arceus0x]

Aye aye aye don't worry I was just waiting for MRI. Dem knees hurt.

I am writing up a response in a bit.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Aye aye aye don't worry I was just waiting for MRI. Dem knees hurt.

I am writing up a response in a bit.

B e t c h, you can't just drop that you're in a hospital and expect us not to worry

 

[Arceus0x]

B e t c h, you can't just drop that you're in a hospital and expect us not to worry

Sorry I'm sleepy and i didn't realize what kind of connotations my statement would have.

 

[Arceus0x]

The things i agree with are:

-explosion manipulation for rayquaza and kyogre
-electricity absorption for Groudon

Things i disagree with:

-AZ resistance for anyone.
Ice beam isn't absolute zero, only sheer cold is. I also see no evidence that either pokemon shown are using sheer cold, all i see is an ice beam and an unnamed attack. If you can prove that Kyogre used sheer cold then sure, I'll agree.
Also i am very concerned at using the Hoopa movie for scaling since it's been accepted many times across many threads that it is unusable for scaling anyone except for Hoopa. I am not sure if it is the same for abilities so i recommend asking Kukui to comment here regarding that.

-Disagree with resistance to electricity since electric type attacks are damaging and explosive 99% of the time and we've never seen electricity stop someone's heart.

-disagree with OHKO resistance since i see no evidence of it being Fissure and i see no reasoning for it to be an ability that bypasses durability outside of game mechanics.

 

[Arceus0x]

Regarding solar beam i see no evasion and regarding flash canon it could be an ok feat but probably not better than the feat that they scale above (pretty sure they scale above Mega Evos and by proxy Ash-Greninja who scales to 6.7c)

 

[Arceus0x]

The world destruction evidence is supporting at best

 

[XXKINGXX69]

"But it generally acts like normal electricity!" Isn't exactly a sound argument, as the Electricity Manipulation page dictates that we need stated or shown proof of electricity dura negging.

In real life, electricity with high amplitudes can atrophy nerves (causing paralysis) and also interfere with the functions of organs such as the heart and brain, and would likely ignore the durability of characters made out materials with enough conductivity due to this fact.

So if it acts like real life electricity, it counts. An

So, we agree then. Greater durability allows someone to tank Electric attacks. Otherwise, the hypothetical Shinx could easily oneshot the hypothetical Snorlax.

This could mean that higher stage pokemon have a slightly higher resistance than electricity. I also don't see why Shinx can't one shot Snorlax with electricity

It's just stronger. Makes no sense using in-universe logic, Dragon/Flying takes neutral damage from Electric

That doesn't mean dragon/flying types can't resist electricity

How the fictional electricity acts does not translate how it affects others. Your argument is a very clear non-sequitur.

What? It just acts like normal electricity which negates durability, thats it

I'll write up a reply later since I'm at a hospital but i disagree with most points here for a few reasons. One being the refutes above and the other being that we don't use the hoopa movie for scaling which has been accepted countless times. Also where's the evidence that Zekrom uses sheer cold and not just ice beam?

Some people disagree with Hoopa movie, it doesn't make it a rule where you can never use the movie for scaling, thats the most stupid thing ever. I never mentioned Zekrom either

The things i agree with are:

-explosion manipulation for rayquaza and kyogre
-electricity absorption for Groudon

Things i disagree with:

-AZ resistance for anyone.
Ice beam isn't absolute zero, only sheer cold is. I also see no evidence that either pokemon shown are using sheer cold, all i see is an ice beam and an unnamed attack. If you can prove that Kyogre used sheer cold then sure, I'll agree.
Also i am very concerned at using the Hoopa movie for scaling since it's been accepted many times across many threads that it is unusable for scaling anyone except for Hoopa. I am not sure if it is the same for abilities so i recommend asking Kukui to comment here regarding that.

-Disagree with resistance to electricity since electric type attacks are damaging and explosive 99% of the time and we've never seen electricity stop someone's heart.

-disagree with OHKO resistance since i see no evidence of it being Fissure and i see no reasoning for it to be an ability that bypasses durability outside of game mechanics.

Man just google Sheer cold and fissure on bulbapedia and check when its used in the anime movie, you think Im lying about it?

We never see it because people resist it all the time. Electricity doesn't need to stop people's heart to be electricity

 

[Zeifyl]

It is on the page for electricity manipulation that working like real world electricity is not enough. It needs specific feats of bypassing durability. Otherwise, 99% of characters in 99% of franchises where electricity manip exists resists electricity manip.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

It is on the page for electricity manipulation that working like real world electricity is not enough. It needs specific feats of bypassing durability. Otherwise, 99% of characters in 99% of franchises where electricity manip exists resists electricity manip.

It doesnt say acting like real life electricity isnt enough. It just says that it needs feats that show it can do those things. Acting like real world electricity is a feat that shows it ignores durability since real life electricity does that

Electricity in pokemon also has voltage, which by definition ignores durability, and includes heat and everything

 

[Zeifyl]

It doesnt say acting like real life electricity isnt enough. It just says that it needs feats that show it can do those things. Acting like real world electricity is a feat that shows it ignores durability since real life electricity does that

Electricity in pokemon also has voltage, which by definition ignores durability, and includes heat and everything

Electricity in most fiction acts like electricity in real life, which is why the rule is there in the first place. Heck, there's many franchises where electricity is closer to real life than in Pokemon. Example: One Piece. Enel has the power of lightning, and is pretty much lightning personified. He even states how many volts he puts into each attack he makes. And the lightning he uses is a blue-ish white, rather than yellow. It also burns AND paralyzes the targets, is conducted by conductive materials, and not conducted by non-conductive materials. You name an aspect of electricity, Enel has displayed it. This is much closer to real life than Pokemon. But Enel doesn't get durability negation, because he doesn't have specific feats of durability negation.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Electricity in most fiction acts like electricity in real life, which is why the rule is there in the first place. Heck, there's many franchises where electricity is closer to real life than in Pokemon. Example: One Piece. Enel has the power of lightning, and is pretty much lightning personified. He even states how many volts he puts into each attack he makes. And the lightning he uses is a blue-ish white, rather than yellow. It also burns AND paralyzes the targets, is conducted by conductive materials, and not conducted by non-conductive materials. You name an aspect of electricity, Enel has displayed it. This is much closer to real life than Pokemon. But Enel doesn't get durability negation, because he doesn't have specific feats of durability negation.

No, it says electricity in fiction doesnt act like real life usually. I think I have alzheimer', because I don't remember asking about Enel. What the **** is a "One Piece"? I dont care if other verses have shit profiles, thats not my problem

 

[Arceus0x]

Man just google Sheer cold and fissure on bulbapedia and check when its used in the anime movie, you think Im lying about it?

Eh, ill let it slide then, though i do feel like proving it further is the best option since it is rather vague due to not having any statements supporting it.
AZ resistance is fine for Groudon.

 

[Arceus0x]

Anyways i fully disagree with electricity in pokemon bypassing durability.
Paralysis inducement is based on the fact that when you're hit by lightning your muscles can contract against your will and they stay in that position with you unable to let go. This is supported by the fact that we see electricity on the outside rather than coming from the inside of a pokemon when they're afflicted by paralysis. In no way does the paralysis in this question affect the nerves. Neither do attacks like thunderbolt which literally explode.

Besides that i see no evidence provided by you that electricity can negate durability in this case and thus i say that this is a guaranteed debunk.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Anyways i fully disagree with electricity in pokemon bypassing durability.
Paralysis inducement is based on the fact that when you're hit by lightning your muscles can contract against your will and they stay in that position with you unable to let go. This is supported by the fact that we see electricity on the outside rather than coming from the inside of a pokemon when they're afflicted by paralysis. In no way does the paralysis in this question affect the nerves. Neither do attacks like thunderbolt which literally explode.

Besides that i see no evidence provided by you that electricity can negate durability in this case and thus i say that this is a guaranteed debunk.

Prove that the electricity doesn't also attack the inside

 

[Arceus0x]

Prove that the electricity doesn't also attack the inside

no, you prove that it attacks the inside

 

[XXKINGXX69]

no, you prove that it attacks the inside

They are electricity, therefore they are

 

[Arceus0x]

They are electricity, therefore they are

the electricity is explosive and has only shown durability bypassing in the form of paralysis, which not every electric move can inflict despite those moves being straight up lightning bolts and beams, therefore they ain't.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

the electricity is explosive and has only shown durability bypassing in the form of paralysis, which not every electric move can inflict despite those moves being straight up lightning bolts and beams, therefore they ain't.

Normal thunder can make explosive sounds and stuff too. Not every electric move can cause Pokemon Paralysis, its never stated they can't cause paralysis like real world electricity

 

[Arceus0x]

Normal thunder can make explosive sounds and stuff too. Not every electric move can cause Pokemon Paralysis, its never stated they can't cause paralysis like real world electricity

explosive sounds and shiz ain't literally causing massive explosions that eclipse stadiusms.
It's never shown to inflict paralysis thus it doesn't. Period.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

explosive sounds and shiz ain't literally causing massive explosions that eclipse stadiusms.
It's never shown to inflict paralysis thus it doesn't. Period.

Machamp has never shown to move mountains

 

[Arceus0x]

Machamp has never shown to move mountains

but it was stated by a trusted individual and there are feats to support this. Meanwhile i see no statement of thunderbolt and thunder and any other attack affecting the nervous system, negating durability ect.

 

[Zeifyl]

No, it says electricity in fiction doesnt act like real life usually. I think I have alzheimer', because I don't remember asking about Enel. What the **** is a "One Piece"? I dont care if other verses have shit profiles, thats not my problem

It says that literally nowhere. And, barring a few outliers like Looney Toons, in most fiction, electricity works like in real life. The whole point of using Enel as an example was to demonstrate how electricity that is FAR more accurate to the real world than Pokemon doesn't automatically get durability negation. If you want to get resistance on electricity manipulation for Rayquaza, you first need to either deliver FEATS of electricity in Pokemon ignoring durability (and no, for the 117th time, it acting like RL does not count as a feat of ignoring durability), or make a CRT to get the standards on the wiki changed, so electricity acting like it does in RL is enough to let it ignore durability, which, again, would grant a large portion of all of fiction resistance to electricity manipulation.