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Pokemon Discussion Thread - Red & Blue arc

I found that part funny. Especially the octopus one, like I get it was based on a Yokai but doing the “it isn’t illegal against the pokemon Batman” unironically is so insane. Though yeah I know the mating part has been canon, just thought the creation story may have been clarified.
 
Keeweed said:
Esto me ha molestado muchísimo. ¿Por qué seguimos vinculando la manipulación de la oscuridad con el tipo oscuro cuando no es oscuridad en el sentido literal, sino maldad en Japón? Lo cual se refleja bastante bien en que muchos de los movimientos son tácticas sucias o basadas en el odio en lugar de ataques literales de oscuridad.

¿También vieron las filtraciones de la historia de Pokémon? El verdadero Arceus fue golpeado por gigantes y los humanos lo hicieron con un Pokémon como se dijo directamente. Un día de locura.
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Executor_N0 said:
They have about 5 versions of the "Pokémon and human used to marry each other" with examples of times when Pokémon and humans would mate and give birth to hybrids. The creation lore approves this, since humans and pokémon being different is a lie, they marrying and living as one is supposed to be the ideal.

Sad enough, this does still exist in the final version, as the Platinum Hiker event has the hiker directly call out the "humans and pokémon used to marry each other because in reality, they are the same". So yeah, that is still in canon, sadly.
Click to expand...
However, I only know as a mention that they got married and legens does not portray that much, it was more of an Easter egg, here it has direct furro sex apart from this not even canon, I mean this seems to be beta more than something that was brought to the games
 
Some people seem to be taking the lore dump seriously even though it is clearly outdated. VERY outdated. The fact that Giratina isn't mentioned proves this alone. The only thing worth of note but not something canonical until expanded upon is the part where Arceus fights giants birthed from the shell of his egg. It is something that was mentioned in official lore. The rest is basically unusable.
 
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera said:
Damn, the Pokemon devs were huge coomers this whole time. This is probably one of the most embarrassing things to ever release for someone.
Click to expand...
I saw the texts and I think this isn't coomer stuff. People need to remember that sexual content in stories isn't always there for jacking off. What I saw of the pokemonxhuman stuff it seems to be modeled like old japanese yokai legends with the same symbols and such. I think that these stories were effectively Poke-folklore. It reads like something you'd find in an ancient text.
 
I got to study Greek myths that were like, 100x more explicit than most of the stuff in the leaked myths while I was around 10 years old. This isn't surprising stuff IMO, it's just standard in many myths all around the world, they are to represent a more old, primal and non-modern point of view.

In fact, if one would read the main theme of the 4th gen games that were also leaked, the theme was actually the world of myth and nature of the past conflicting with the world of modernity and division of the present. Sinnoh was originally divided into East and West as natural and modern and this division broke the balance of the world, which could once again awaken Arceus (Aus originally) for breaking the promise of balance, which could cause all of existence to collapse back into nothingness.

By understanding the past, erasing the division, and using everything to grow together as a singular whole perfect harmony between humans and pokémon could be achieved, and with that, the world could be saved.

I need to, say, it's an amazing theme for a Pokémon game.
 
Executor_N0 said:
I got to study Greek myths that were like, 100x more explicit than most of the stuff in the leaked myths while I was around 10 years old. This isn't surprising stuff IMO, it's just standard in many myths all around the world, they are to represent a more old, primal and non-modern point of view.

In fact, if one would read the main theme of the 4th gen games that were also leaked, the theme was actually the world of myth and nature of the past conflicting with the world of modernity and division of the present. Sinnoh was originally divided into East and West as natural and modern and this division broke the balance of the world, which could once again awaken Arceus (Aus originally) for breaking the promise of balance, which could cause all of existence to collapse back into nothingness.

By understanding the past, erasing the division, and using everything to grow together as a singular whole perfect harmony between humans and pokémon could be achieved, and with that, the world could be saved.

I need to, say, it's an amazing theme for a Pokémon game.
Click to expand...
What do you think of the beta-origin story of the universe? So far it seems we finally have been given info about the giants Arceus fought since the rest is outdated
 
Arceus0x said:
I saw the texts and I think this isn't coomer stuff. People need to remember that sexual content in stories isn't always there for jacking off. What I saw of the pokemonxhuman stuff it seems to be modeled like old japanese yokai legends with the same symbols and such. I think that these stories were effectively Poke-folklore. It reads like something you'd find in an ancient text.
Click to expand...
There's a story that has no point but to make a girl give birth to a Slakoth. It does not say that it was an Egg. There's a guy who repeatedly has sex with an Octillery for no reason.
 
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera said:
There's a story that has no point but to make a girl give birth to a Slakoth. It does not say that it was an Egg. There's a guy who repeatedly has sex with an Octillery for no reason.
Click to expand...
Yes, I know, but we don't know what they were for, they are out of context snippets. They are written like fairy tails. If they were coomer stuff they'd go into detail, but they don't.
 
Arceus0x said:
What do you think of the beta-origin story of the universe? So far it seems we finally have been given info about the giants Arceus fought since the rest is outdated
Click to expand...
Loved it, but there are many versions of it, each one of them adds, removes, changes something. They really were still trying to find out what they would do, and some of the ideas I really like. I do get from some of them the "Gigant" is supposed to be Giratina, or eventually became what would be Giratina.

In the second instead of a Tree of Life, Aus created three avatars, Ia, Ea, and a third only called "Black Gigant". While Ia and Ea were in charge of creating the world, the Black Gigant was in charge of breaking eggs that would give birth to humans and Pokémon, but after breaking the eggs, the Black Gigant (Who was in charge of destruction and bringing everything back to nothingness) started to kill human and Pokémon.
Ea and Ia couldn't stop the Black Gigant because that was their brother, so they instead called humans and Pokémon to fight against them. To help them they created Rai, the god of eyes, Ai, the god of hearts, and Hai, the god of voice, so they could stop the gigant, make the others understand his feelings, and also protect them against the power of the gigant.
After killing the black gigant, Ea and Ia used his body and soul to create. The body became the world, the oceans, the land, and the heavens. The soul became the gods that rule over the world, Rayquaza, Groudon, and Kyogre.

In the third version, things are different. To create the world, Aus created an avatar, a titan with violent power, who has the power to destroy, devour and purify everything that exists. Thanks to this, the world's barriers were destroyed and so it could expand. One day Aus descended into the world in the form of a fragile woman, a man took care of her and they began to fall in love. This love gave birth to two children, and then the woman was transformed into a divine form, Aus. Aus explains that he lives on another plane, but appeared on that plane because of his avatar, the Titan. As the Titan is just another aspect of him, he can't destroy the Titan, and one day, the Titan will descend into that world and destroy everything. The children would become Ia and Ea, they have the powers of gods, humans, and Pokémon, and together they can protect the world from the titan. In this version they defeat the titan and from the titan's soul Aus gives birth to Rei, Ai and Hai.

The fourth myth is about the planet and tells of a time when the world was just one continent, a world in which everyone was equal, everyone was friends, and everyone had a source of food and a family. But over time, people gradually forgot to respect the gods, nature, and their friendship with pokémon, and so began to compete for the glory and rewards of others through wars. As a consequence of the effect of the world's wars, weak Pokémon died, and strong Pokémon were used as tools in wars to the death. Aus saw this and became angry. He began to attack the world, making the gods of the sky, land and ocean disappear, until everything began to return to nothingness. Ea and Ia came as Aus's avatars to give him a chance, stop the disasters, and Aus turned back into an egg and fell asleep. Ea and Ia bring the world back to what it was, but keep the earth fragmented, so that people don't forget Aus's sadness and rage. Ea and Ia called Rei, Ai, and Hai to look over the world, always watching, feeling, and listening to everything and attempting to prevent people from making the same mistakes. Basically in this version, Aus' attack is the reason why multiple continents exist.
 
I just want them to officially reveal what’s up with the Giants. What they are, why they formed, why they attacked Arceus, heck, if that’s even their canon placement anymore since the Mind Plate says “The Original One breathed alone before the universe came.”
 
Back in the original notes, it was not something with a reason, it was inspired by Jung's concept of a baby and mother that would enter into conflict due to the shock when the baby gets out of the womb. I honestly am fine with that explanation, somethings are just side effects of nature and don't have an actual logical explanation.
 
Executor_N0 said:
Back in the original notes, it was not something with a reason, it was inspired by Jung's concept of a baby and mother that would enter into conflict due to the shock when the baby gets out of the womb. I honestly am fine with that explanation, somethings are just side effects of nature and don't have an actual logical explanation.
Click to expand...
You could say that about the Teddiursa, but not really any of the others.
 
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera said:
You could say that about the Teddiursa, but not really any of the others.
Click to expand...
I'm talking about the "Giants". In some versions of the tale this is said:
ユングの言うところの母胎からの分離の恐怖やショックの象徴。 なお巨人はポケモンに非ず。
A symbol of fear or shock of separation from the mother's womb, according to Jung. Note that giants are not Pokémon.
 
Q&A about the Team Galatic final battle in Diamond/Pearl

Question 1. "Do Pokémon really have power over the matter and spirit?"

As of now, 38 myths have been discovered, and many of them tell this story. A long time ago, time and space were twisted, and the balance between matter and spirit was disturbed, for sure many incidents like those happened. There have always been stories about time-space with Ia (Ea), and there's also the terrifying myth, there if Rei, Ai, or Hai are hurt, they can stop emotions. But, do these Pokémon really have that kind of power? No one can be sure.

※Secret Answer: Those myths were simply created and told based on their unique techniques.

Question 2. "Did Akagi really extract Ia (Ea)'s power?"

Unclear. Akagi himself stated to have received the power of time (Space). Maybe just like Akagi said, time and space could have fused, or melted, together.

Question 3. "So, Time (Space) isn't going to cease anymore?"

As of now, the balance is maintained due to the protagonist having them. The actions of these Pokémon are controlled due to them having a master.

※Secret Answer: They can't use their techniques without permission.

Time
Time isn't just the time of this world. Time is always moving. It's never stopping. It's important to not only see the past and the future but also the present.

Space
Space isn't just the space of this world. Worlds of other dimensions also exist. The dead go there, and from there comes new life. Also, the original space, the space of the heart, is also important.
 
the diagram that's shown in centro leaks, which seems to come from the leaks themselves, still appears throughout the series

maxresdefault.jpg


Hall_of_Origin_PLA.png


although with the difference that the center circle has one extra appendage, presumably for giratina

so it is possible that this version of the myth is still part of the canon in some shape or form, although not 100%

regarding the giants, I've heard theories that some of the legendary pokémon that came after are intended to be them, especially now that they don't seem to have a place in the diagram of the pantheon. the candidates I've seen mentioned were the original form of kyurem, necrozma, eternatus and terapagos
 
XatorNova said:
the diagram that's shown in centro leaks, which seems to come from the leaks themselves, still appears throughout the series

although with the difference that the center circle has one extra appendage, presumably for giratina

so it is possible that this version of the myth is still part of the canon in some shape or form, although not 100%
Click to expand...

Yeah, in a way it's smart for them to not reveal that because they can always add more stuff to it if needed. In fact, I would be surprised if in the current version they changed the non-legendary Pokémon into modern Legendaries since they now have more stuff to work with.
 
The Myths of Ia and Ea, of Rei, Ai, and Hai.

◎Introducing the myths surrounding Ia and Ea.

It gave birth to Ia, the god of Time. It loved Ea. And thus time was born to us. Time moves even if we do nothing, it doesn't matter if we are happy or unhappy. And thus, we are being watched over. This is a great power manifesting.

It gave birth to Ea, the god of space. And thus, many spaces were created. A world of space that transcends dimensions. Spaces spreads within the heart. There's a space where the dead go. There's a space where life comes from. From everything we are being watched over. This is a great power manifesting.

These two Pokémon, they were the Pokémon of time and space, and they had an universal control over all things on the highest mountain in the world.

There was God. God created the god of time and the god of space. And thus, what is called existence came to be. The god of time was named Ia. The god of space was named Ea. They had great power. To counter that power the Pokémon Rei, Ai, and Hai were given birth. It's said these Pokémon create a balance between the physical and spiritual powers.

◎Introducing the myths surrounding Rei, Ai, and Hai.

Rei is the god of knowledge. Ai is the god of emotions. There is a myth that Hai is the god of willpower.
Since Rei was born, knowledge has expanded and turned much richer. To know things means like knowing how to catch prey. That is a blessing.
Ai was born, emotions were born, joy, anger, sadness, and happiness were born. Joy, and happiness. (From joy comes happiness). Anger, and sadness. (From anger only sadness comes). Various emotions were born. And while joy can be shared, sadness can only be endured alone. Ai taught the importance of creating joy. That is a blessing.
Hai was born, and so came the power to make decisions and take action. Hai decided to take action, and so it did. Hai was born and with that the power to carry out our ambitions. And through movement, we learned to get closer to ourselves. We also learned that by moving, we could get closer to our dreams. That is a blessing.

At the same time, terrifying myths remain. Someone who looks into the eyes of this Pokémon will instantly lose their memory, and will never be able to return home. Just by touching this Pokémon will cause someone to lose all emotion within three days. If the Pokémon's body is injured, someone will become unable to move or do anything within seven days.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Plot related lore

◎Ia
A Pokémon with many myths about being the god of time. Has the ability to manipulate time. The god of time governs the past, from the universe's Big Bang to the present. Also said to know the future. IA was born from Aus. All of time is said to flow through its body, which shines like a diamond.

◎Ea
A Pokémon with many myths about being the god of space. A Pokémon that can manipulate space. A god of space that can freely expand and shrink space, and also create sub-spaces and other dimensions. Ea was born from Aus. It is said that if you look into its body, which shines like a rainbow pearl, you can see different dimensions.
 
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There's a lot of cool stuff that should have been kept IMO

GZ2uGd5WMA0Hnsg.png

This is a breakdown of the state of the Pokémon World during the events of Diamond/Pearl.

The gods who created and protected the material world. Ia, Ea.
The gods who created and protected the spiritual world. Rei, Ai, Hai.
Click to expand...

In the material world, mainly the world of science, human thoughts are generated by an organ called the brain, and the mind is also created by electrical signals. When you die, you no longer exist. There is nothing. It doesn't matter what you do, because once you die you will become nothing anyway. No matter what you do, it will ultimately be the same matter. (Nihilism)
Click to expand...

However, in the spiritual world, we create things that complement these things: the meaning of life, imagination, ideas, religions, etc. People are not just material beings, they are also conscious beings who sense various sensations.
Click to expand...

Thus, only with the existence of both the material world and the spiritual world can people live.
Click to expand...

In Diamond and Pearl, strange things start to happen to the world when the balance between Rei, Ai, and Hai, who protect Sinnoh's spiritual world, and Ia and Ea, who protect the material world, is disrupted. In reality, the spiritual world is stronger in the balance in the world of Pokémon. However, they in the material world make good use of the spiritual world. One example is the Pokeball. Being inside one makes the Pokemon feel comfortable and at ease. If that were to be uncomfortable, it would be just a machine. So, when the material world becomes the center, emotions, knowledge, and will disappear. The material world expands.
Click to expand...

*The world of Pokemon is one that is closer to spiritual civilization than to materialistic or scientific reality. This can be seen just by the fact that they care about Pokemon and those have feelings that are no different from those of other people.
Click to expand...
 
Most of these leaks seem to be old alpha/beta stuff from gen 4 and cut content (which is content cut for a reason).
Some early drafts, some random texts trying to imitate wacky real-life folklore and some unrefined ideas (stuff that would eventually evolve into the franchise's current mythos, discarding some things and adding others), probably made even before Diamond and Pearl were developed.
 
Last edited:
XatorNova said:
the diagram that's shown in centro leaks, which seems to come from the leaks themselves, still appears throughout the series

maxresdefault.jpg


Hall_of_Origin_PLA.png


although with the difference that the center circle has one extra appendage, presumably for giratina

so it is possible that this version of the myth is still part of the canon in some shape or form, although not 100%

regarding the giants, I've heard theories that some of the legendary pokémon that came after are intended to be them, especially now that they don't seem to have a place in the diagram of the pantheon. the candidates I've seen mentioned were the original form of kyurem, necrozma, eternatus and terapagos
Click to expand...
Pretty sure the meaning of that symbol has changed drastically since it was first created.
I mean, pretty sure Xerneas, Kyurem or Landorus are closer to the divinity than a mere Gyarados.
 
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