Pokémon: Arceus Low 1-C Revision

[HammerStrikes219]

Thank you, I will check everything then.

Also here is my project regarding this: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:ImmortalDread/PokémonCosmology

Pokémon Called Gods

vsbattles.fandom.com

There is this blog as well.

 

[ShivaShakti]

Are you saying a single statement like that is enough?

And no, Yggdrasil has a direct statement of transcendence over space and time. Definitely not Low 1C.

Never has been. We don't make such a leap without context. And in this case it means Arceus realm is outside

Beyond meaning outside, as mentioned by Arceus himself as well as a very knowledgeable character in the series Cogita

I think you are forgetting that the literal concept of time and space (Dialga and Palkia) exist, and spawned from Arceus creating the multiverse. That is all of the context you need. Ultima's argument in regard to "transcendence of space-time" was due to thr ways in which that statement could be interpreted. In Arceus' case, the statement is literal.

 

[Sniper670]

I think you are forgetting that the literal concept of time and space (Dialga and Palkia) exist, and spawned from Arceus creating the multiverse. That is all of the context you need. Ultima's argument in regard to "transcendence of space-time" was due to thr ways in which that statement could be interpreted. In Arceus' case, the statement is literal.

Did I miss something or this has a better justification than what is on Arceus profile yet Arceus is Low 1C and this guy is 2C

Low Multiverse level (Existing before the Ginnungagap, which existed before all of creation, the great void of primordial Fire and Ice met to produce Ymir[2] during the period when time itself was young[2]. The World Tree completely encompasses and is ever-present throughout all of the Norse Realms[1]; the only things outside its reach are other Pantheons' domains, such as the realms ruled by the Greek Gods, etcetera. The tree's mere branches alone, which stretch out to infinity[3], simultaneously encompass and transcend the concepts of space and time altogether[4], and the 9 Realms they encompass[5][6], are separate[2] space[7]-time[8] continuums)

 

[Sniper670]

Look. I have a big problem with what is currently on Arceus profile.

If there is no better scans then he gets downgraded


And I'm waiting for the better scans

 

[ShivaShakti]

Did I miss something or this has a better justification than what is on Arceus profile yet Arceus is Low 1C and this guy is 2C

Once more, you're removing Ultima's comment (ironically about greater context) from its own context. The justification for Yggdrasil being Low 1-C wasn't good because there was no additional context to Freya's statement. It "transcending time" could simply mean it is omnipresent in all eras. The statement of "stretching into infinity" also does nor grant an additional tier as there isn't evidence for the 9 realms being infinitely smaller than the Yggdrasil.

So no. Arceus indeed has superior context and justification for Low 1-C. Especially when you consider the pokemon multiverse, unlike the nine realms, is stated to be a mere aspect of Arceus' true being, further implying a qualitative superiority.

Look. I have a big problem with what is currently on Arceus profile.

If there is no better scans then he gets downgraded


And I'm waiting for the better scans

I think we would all prefer it if you ceased your arrogance. Stop speaking like you are a sole higher authority.

 

[Sniper670]

Once more, you're removing Ultima's comment (ironically about greater context) from its own context. The justification for Yggdrasil being Low 1-C wasn't good because there was no additional context to Freya's statement. It "transcending time" could simply mean it is omnipresent in all eras. The statement of "stretching into infinity" also does nor grant an additional tier as there isn't evidence for the 9 realms being infinitely smaller than the Yggdrasil.

So no. Arceus indeed has superior context and justification for Low 1-C. Especially when you consider the pokemon multiverse, unlike the nine realms, is stated to be a mere aspect of Arceus' true being, further implying a qualitative superiority.

Please enough of this "is a mere aspect of his True self"

How is this supposed to prove that

This is what is linked to that statement. Tell me this is a joke

I think we would all prefer it if you ceased your arrogance. Stop speaking like you are a sole higher authority.

I'm speaking based on the fact that the profile justification is ass

 

[ShivaShakti]

Please enough of this "is a mere aspect of his True self"

How is this supposed to prove that

This is what is linked to that statement. Tell me this is a joke

I'm speaking based on the fact that the profile justification is ass

I mean it states it right there. Palkia and Dialga (Space and Time) were simply one part of Arceus which only came into being in the creation of the multiverse. There are also the other statements of Space and time being contained within his being.

Them being objects which were contained in Arceus' oneness, the fact they didn't exist until the advent of creation, the statements of transcendence, Arceus' realm existing beyond time and space, are all adequate evidence.

 

[Sniper670]

I mean it states it right there. Palkia and Dialga (Space and Time) were simply one part of Arceus which only came into being in the creation of the multiverse. There are also the other statements of Space and time being contained within his being.
Them being simply things which were contained Arceus' oneness, the fact they didn't exist until the advent of creation, the statements of transcendence, Arceus' realm existing beyond time and space, are all adequate evidence.

That's nice. I can't see it as a justification on his profile. There's nothing on his profile, no scan that confirms what you're saying. And you're wrong about this

The Heart contained within its Consciousness the entire multiverse as one existence, from its awareness came Arceus who manifested the CT and LT. So once again, his profile lacks this crucial detail, and justification that complements this, rather using the Pokémon Arceus who is not 5D or anything close to that. Yes the multiverse is also an extension of the Pokémon, on a higher level, this system is part of the Heart. But the scans on his profile doesn't say this and nothing there proves Low 1C

What I explained just now, is basically what the cosmology is,scans are still vague as hell, so I'll personally recommend we stop trying to force low 1C on him until we get something very tangible

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

I-- I know? That's what I'm trying to explain to @Sniper670 , but he doesn't see it as enough. That's the point of contention.

What I agree with him primarily is that the justification on the profile should explain this better. Because just saying stuff like "Oh yeah, he resists Hoopa, totally above everything" is kind of doo-doo imo.

Hoopas part in the justification to be fair is supposed to be minor support evidence.

like, very minor.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Anyway, this is getting insanely circular so I’m not going to go much further into this back and forth

people have made their places and lines in the sand, so have I and I’m not changing it.

 

[ShivaShakti]

That's nice. I can't see it as a justification on his profile. There's nothing on his profile, no scan that confirms what you're saying. And you're wrong about this

The Heart contained within its Consciousness the entire multiverse as one existence, from its awareness came Arceus who manifested the CT and LT. So once again, his profile lacks this crucial detail, and justification that complements this, rather using the Pokémon Arceus who is not 5D or anything close to that. Yes the multiverse is also an extension of the Pokémon, on a higher level, this system is part of the Heart. But the scans on his profile doesn't say this and nothing there proves Low 1C

What I explained just now, is basically what the cosmology is,scans are still vague as hell, so I'll personally recommend we stop trying to force low 1C on him until we get something very tangible

Yeah it sounds like you are simply speaking nonsense. I don't recall us considering the heart to be separate from Arceus.

 

[Sniper670]

Yeah it sounds like you are simply speaking nonsense. I don't recall us considering the heart to be separate from Arceus.

They're different.

Arceus is a manifestation of it.

And the profile justification is using the Pokémon Arceus for low 1C when that 3D character has no proof of it

 

[Sniper670]

The profile has 2 keys

1. Avatar

2. True Form

Can someone explain to me why 95% of the supposed proof for low 1C for True Form is coming from the Avatar key?

 

[Hasty12345]

Trust me, I know EVERYTHING about this Llama, and I'm yet to see them Prove their claim

I know that as a Non Pokémon supporter these things will go over their heads. Not me though. My knowledge on Arceus is Top tier and there's nothing here that proves low 1C, which i proved to hasty and of course, he couldn't counter it for obvious reasons

You’re not proving much of anything, you’re just boasting and making assertions.

 

[Sniper670]

Lmfao

 

[Antvasima]

Don't be rude please.

 

[Sniper670]

"The entire multiverse is merely an aspect of his True self"

Proceeds to show me this as proof of qualitative Superiority


Where is DT when we need him

 

[Sniper670]

Don't be rude please.

Due to bias reason, I suggest you call other Non Pokémon staff members. If that is possible. Anyone with knowledge about the Tiering System will do

 

[Hasty12345]

I’d say this CRT has been thoroughly rejected and should probably be closed.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

I agree with Kukui and Everything12’s takes on this.

 

[Sniper670]

Can someone show me what makes this low 1C

Low Complex Multiverse level (Is the origin of the creation of everything in Pokémon, including the realms of The Creation Trio, including Giratina's which lacks both time and directions, and Palkia's which has domain over both the parallel dimensions and the directions, with the Creation Trio members also being their own realms themselves. Arceus is the "God who transcends everything" whose realm is beyond both time and space and that treats the Pokémon reality, which is made of countless to likely infinite universes, as a mere aspect of its true being, as also showcased from its consciousness extending across both space and time and Hoopa being able to forcefully summon the Creation Trio out of their realms with the "infinite power" of its rings, but being unable to do the same with Arceus', as it's the only one who could seal said power)

 

[Sniper670]

I’d say this CRT has been thoroughly rejected and should probably be closed.

I say we get someone like DonTalk here don't you agree? Or you think he'd look at the profile and think it's okay

And I mean people who understand the Tiering System.

 

[Sniper670]

Can someone show me what makes this low 1C

Low Complex Multiverse level (Is the origin of the creation of everything in Pokémon, including the realms of The Creation Trio, including Giratina's which lacks both time and directions, and Palkia's which has domain over both the parallel dimensions and the directions, with the Creation Trio members also being their own realms themselves. Arceus is the "God who transcends everything" whose realm is beyond both time and space and that treats the Pokémon reality, which is made of countless to likely infinite universes, as a mere aspect of its true being, as also showcased from its consciousness extending across both space and time and Hoopa being able to forcefully summon the Creation Trio out of their realms with the "infinite power" of its rings, but being unable to do the same with Arceus', as it's the only one who could seal said power)

And I mean, read the scans. Not what is being described.

 

[Hasty12345]

I say we get someone like DonTalk here don't you agree? Or you think he'd look at the profile and think it's okay

And I mean people who understand the Tiering System.

So you’re saying all these staff members and Pokémon supporters on this thread OR the upgrade thread who disagree with you simply don’t know the tiering system?

idek what to say to that tbh

 

[Sniper670]

So you’re saying all these staff members and Pokémon supporters on this thread OR the upgrade thread who disagree with you simply don’t know the tiering system?

idek what to say to that tbh

And you're saying what is on Arceus profile is okay for low 1C?

The multiverse is MERELY an aspect of him. Is this the scan?

And this is somehow showcased by his consciousness spreading across space and time. How is this anything more than Omnipresence? It's showcasing what exactly?
Hoopa's inclusion cracks me up whenever I see it so I'll ignore that. A Pokémon that transcends everything but are we going to give Arceus low 1C or 5D for that, no. It's basically saying he's superior to anything, not qualitatively going by all his appearance. His realm located beyond time and space basically talking about it's isolation from space time. Something a knowledgeable character also mentions


Where is the Low 1C justification. Because whatever is on his profile isn't it

 

[Hasty12345]

Oh my Arceus you are so terribly right how could I have ever doubted someone with 10000% Arceus knowledge

 

[ImmortalDread]

Low 1-C comes from here actually

Arceus is the "God who transcends everything" whose realm is beyond both time and space and that treats the Pokémon reality, as a mere aspect of its true being

@Hasty12345 I have a question, it is clear you are against downgrading, yes alright, but why are you against “re-writing” the justification tho…?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

At this point just count the votes

If the OP is just going to continuously stonewall against every opposing comment then nothing much left here needs to be done. It’s getting very circular and just repeating a bunch of things we’re all saying to each other.

 

[Hasty12345]

I’m not against changing the justification, but the OP is very clearly pushing for a downgrade, which I am in disagreement with.

 

[ImmortalDread]

I’m not against changing the justification, but the OP is very clearly pushing for a downgrade, which I am in disagreement with.

No No, actually he is saying lets change the justification or just downgrade it.
So the former can be solved and the latter won't exist. What do you think?

 

[Sniper670]

At this point just count the votes

If the OP is just going to continuously stonewall against every opposing comment then nothing much left here needs to be done. It’s getting very circular and just repeating a bunch of things we’re all saying to each other.

Who is stonewalling.

Justification for Low 1C is trash

I'm asking for better justification or downgrade

And stop using Arceus dimension. Transcendence is meaningless and in this case there's neither a statement of transcendence of time and space neither is Arceus transcending anything make him 5D for obvious reasons

Pfft, even God of War has a better justification for Low 1C than llama

 

[Hasty12345]

So basically I'm proposing we remove his low 1-C rating and give him back 2-A. At the very least, he should be on the same level as his avatar or on an unquantifiable higher level due to the fact that the cosmology is part of it

 

[ImmortalDread]

@Hasty12345 At this point, you are nitpicking, he already mentioned 5 times to change the justification or remove the low 1-C if there is nothing available.
If you don't mind, don't nitpick

 

[Hasty12345]

@Hasty12345 At this point, you are nitpicking, he already mentioned 5 times to change the justification or remove the low 1-C if there is nothing available.
If you don't mind, don't nitpick

I'm asking for better justification or downgrade

Who’s nitpicking?

 

[ImmortalDread]

@Hasty12345 Final words, are you against changing the current justification or not? Honestly, this is tiring, you are nitpicking the purpose of CRT.
@Sniper670's CRT is to change the justification, do you agree or not?

 

[Hasty12345]

The purpose of the CRT as outlined in the CRT is to remove low 1-C. I’m not nitpicking anything, in the OP’s most recent post he’s still trying to downgrade the character.

idc if the justification changes.

 

[ImmortalDread]

And through the discussion, he changed it to “Change the current justification”, do you agree or not?

 

[Hasty12345]

And through the discussion, he changed it to “Change the current justification”, do you agree or not?

He didn’t change it to “change the current justification” added it as a compromise he’s willing to accept. he’s still pushing for a downgrade as per his own most recent post.

this is derailing, stop pestering me over this. I’ve made it clear what I disagree to.

 

[ImmortalDread]

He actually made it very clear that if no one is willing to change the current justification, then the fact is to downgrade the current justification only refers to 2-A.
You disagree with the downgrade, but agree with changing the justification. Thanks for your time.

@Sniper670 Since you made the CRT for this, what is your suggestion for changing the justification?

 

[ImmortalDread]

Who is stonewalling.

Justification for Low 1C is trash

I'm asking for better justification or downgrade

And stop using Arceus dimension. Transcendence is meaningless and in this case there's neither a statement of transcendence of time and space neither is Arceus transcending anything make him 5D for obvious reasons

Pfft, even God of War has a better justification for Low 1C than llama

he’s still pushing for a downgrade as per his own most recent post.

Talking about the last “comment” from him. He was simply asking for a better justification.