Pluto might be an alias used by Mundus

[GilverFortuna]

Oh, well, first post here and the actual reason for me to register... Ahem, as the title is saying, I believe that in DMC 1 the demon called Pluto was actually Mundus. Reason? These screenshots that I took from Devil May Cry: Feats Summarized and Explained by ParadoxIndifferent. The castellans were said to worship Mundus, they even had a statue of him right in the first area of the castle. Why would the prophet that told the castellans about Pluto as of someone they should expect, if they were worshipping another deity, the one that actually defeated so-called "Pluto"? And then, there's someone with "black wings of treachery". Yes, it could be Mundus, the Usurper, the one that overthrew Pluto, but he had white wings. This description actually fits Sparda, as the Arch-Betrayer and the Dark (Black) Knight, who literally had black bug wings. Yes, Sparda also did oppose the First Demon King, but he wasn't exactly somebody treacherous then. Quite the opposite actually - he was the most loyal servant of Mundus. But still, there's also the statement of Pluto separating heavens and earth, which fits the narrative of the DMC 3 manga's creation of the universe, but I doubt that they even had the manga planned, and it's just a coincidence with some different meaning, perhaps, related to Mundus creating a copy of the Universe to fight Dante. Yeah, the argument is weak as hell, I know. Still, there's one more, that I learned of from the Devil May Cry Wiki:

The Mundus Cereris was a pit in Roman mythology which contained an entrance to Hades, the underworld, which was ruled by Pluto, the Roman god of the underworld; Mundus is identified as Pluto twice within Devil May Cry.[21][22] The stone covering the pit, known as the lapis manalis, would be removed three times a year, and when it was removed it was believed that the spirits of the blessed dead would commune with the living.

Remember, the first DMC game was made based on Dante Alighieri's "Divine Comedy", and Alighieri himself was from Italy, formerly Rome. I'd say that the devs using ancient Roman mythology in their game is not too far-fetched.

TL;DR: The Prophet that mentioned Pluto could actually mean the game's final battle in the universe Mundus created, where Dante used Sparda's DT and gained black wings, and Pluto was just a name for Mundus himself.

 

[Random-Helper323]

This was what I thought for the longest time, but PoC has literally introduced us to Pluto, a different demon entirely. The manga also makes it clear that Pluto separated the worlds, a direct contrast with Mundus who wants to assimilate the human world.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

To make it short, Kamiya himself said Mundus isn't Pluto + all the things explained in said blog

 

[GilverFortuna]

To make it short, Kamiya himself said Mundus isn't Pluto + all the things explained in said blog

I see. Thanks for clarifying that. Also, has anyone tried proving that Demon Kings are 5D beings due to Mundus and Argosax ruling over their respective halves of the infinite Demon World?

Btw, where can I find Kamiya's explanation?

 

[GilverFortuna]

This was what I thought for the longest time, but PoC has literally introduced us to Pluto, a different demon entirely. The manga also makes it clear that Pluto separated the worlds, a direct contrast with Mundus who wants to assimilate the human world.

Technically in Devil's Lair translation manga states that Pluto held the two universes apart when they were torn from each other. The fact that it was him who split them wasn't directly stated.

EDIT: Nah, I'm just nitpicking at this point. I think it's safe to assume that the indirect statement is just a part of the translation's syntaxis due to the japanese text being overly dramatic.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

I see. Thanks for clarifying that. Also, has anyone tried proving that Demon Kings are 5D beings due to Mundus and Argosax ruling over their respective halves of the infinite Demon World?

The demon world being infinite isn't enough on this site on it's own. You need a lot of mental hops placed on DMC only to get there.

Btw, where can I find Kamiya's explanation?

Twitter. I can probably get the screenshot but to summarize someone asked if Mundus is/was pluto and he said no.

 

[GilverFortuna]

The demon world being infinite isn't enough on this site on it's own. You need a lot of mental hops placed on DMC only to get there.

Twitter. I can probably get the screenshot but to summarize someone asked if Mundus is/was pluto and he said no.

Sorry if I'm being a nuisance, but I'd like to see the screenshot. It may come in handy later in the future. Also, I mean, the Demonic Energy can manipulate time, so it has to be at least 4D. Therefore, the Demon World also should be at least 4D, and as it's infinite for most demons, Demon Kings such as Argosax and Mundus somehow managed to claim its two halves, which should be possible if they're at least 1D above it. That's my logic at least.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Sorry if I'm being a nuisance, but I'd like to see the screenshot. It may come in handy later in the future.

I'll look for it

Also, I mean, the Demonic Energy can manipulate time, so it has to be at least 4D. Therefore, the Demon World also should be at least 4D, and as it's infinite for most demons, Demon Kings such as Argosax and Mundus somehow managed to claim its two halves, which should be possible if they're at least 1D above it. That's my logic at least.

Time manipulation =/= 4D

The demon world is already higher dimensional with all the stuff surrounding it, not 5D under site standards tho. Being able to mess with something on that magnitude doesn't mean you are +1D, just that you scale from it.

For them to be +1D you need some random ass statements which aren't a thing in verse.

 

[GilverFortuna]

I'll look for it

Time manipulation =/= 4D

The demon world is already higher dimensional with all the stuff surrounding it, not 5D under site standards tho. Being able to mess with something on that magnitude doesn't mean you are +1D, just that you scale from it.

For them to be +1D you need some random ass statements which aren't a thing in verse.

Sssoooo, the Kings somehow ruling half infinities isn't valid. Shame, I was hoping for at least low 1-C for DMC. Thanks for clarifying again and preventing me from embarrassing myself on a higher scale.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Sssoooo, the Kings somehow ruling half infinities isn't valid.

It is valid. Infinity is somehow often trivialized in fiction for it to not exactly be enough to get an upgrade like that.

Shame, I was hoping for at least low 1-C for DMC. Thanks for clarifying again and preventing me from embarrassing myself on a higher scale.

You should check the past threads we tried for it. Would be helpful in case you are planning another one.

edit: here

 

[GilverFortuna]

It is valid. Infinity is somehow often trivialized in fiction for it to not exactly be enough to get an upgrade like that.

You should check the past threads we tried for it. Would be helpful in case you are planning another one.

edit: here

Thx a lot. How do I close the discussion then?