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For One Last Time 🐍🐍🐍. I am done after this never gonna touch Plot Manipulation for MG in wiki


Plot Manipulation is the ability to control the plot that governs reality. Commonly found in metafictional stories, the plot can be understood as a fundamental aspect of reality once one views that reality as fictional. It is the description of the world that doesn't only describe, but determines, reality itself. As such, by altering the plot, one can achieve virtually any effect, in a similar fashion as with Reality Warping.
Don't ask for specific word like where it was stated as Plot because even in plot manipulation page nor in the examples I am using never stated that it's required. Only thing which is required is proof of reality which is viewed as Fiction as some kinda of narrative..

documentary can be considered as Narrative too.
A narrative, story, or tale is any account of a series of related events or experiences,[1][2] whether nonfictional (memoir, biography, news report, documentary, travelogue, etc.) or fictional (fairy tale, fable, legend, thriller, novel, etc.).[3][4][5] Narratives can be presented through a sequence of written or spoken words, through still or moving images, or through any combination of these.



Book of Traces is the Past itself. All Record and Event happened in the world are stored as Traces in the Book of Traces. You can clearly see Altering the Book of Traces one can achieve different affects like God of Traces Sealing Anos and Using EGA on him by altering the Past which is stored in the Book Of Traces.

"Now that there is no trace god, the power of the Book of Traces is limited. If we can identify the connection to the past traces we wish to examine, we will be able to trace them and recreate past events!"

You can see the Past Engraved in the Book of Traces like a video ( i mean events which are going on like a movie) well this still how we see fiction if we take a look at some books or watch some movies.

"The past becomes a trace, inscribed in the book bequeathed by my God. Oh, this is the miracle of the great Trace God. Let us go back to the past inscribed in this book. The Book of Traces, second movement."

 The image of Via Flea floats in the cage in a woozy manner. She is mumbling to herself as she holds Celis head on her chest.

 The book of traces reflects the past of this prison.
A tremendous number of bookshelves appeared endlessly in the endless wilderness.

 I noticed that a man was standing before me.
 He was a god, holding a pure white book in his hand and dressed in solemn clothing.

"I await the coming day, and at the end of time, in the deepest part of Regalondrol, I continue to sleep. What do you want, nonconformist and nameless god Arcana?"

 Arcana stepped forward and said to Liebarschnedd.

"I wish to recover my lost memory and the name of my god. It must be inscribed in your order."

"Memory is pain and forgetfulness is salvation. I am the God who bears the pain of this world. The memories you regain will torment, torment, and hurt you."

"The sins that I have committed are mine. If it is pain, it should not have been healed. I want my scars to be engraved on my body once more."

"This is the place where all memories and records end. Here is the place where all memories and records are traced, O Arcana, the god who now has no name. Gaze into the depths of your memory. If thou wilt not turn away thine evil eye, and if thou wilt truly desire it, thou mayest recover thy memory."

 Countless books fall without a sound from the vast number of bookshelves that stretch on and on into the wilderness.
 As they opened in mid-air, the pages of the books were torn off one after another and danced like confetti across the wilderness sky.

 The countless pages of countless books, thousands and billions of them, must be the memories, records, and traces of this world that have gathered here.

 One of them is the memory she seeks.
 Arcana stared at the countless pages floating in the air.

"I am the order that inscribes records and memories. I have only inscribed the prayers, the pains, and the wishes of generations of Popes. I choose not myself, but Pope Gorlóna, with whom I have made a pact. I only inscribe on my body the path they took, the history of the world."
.
.
.
 As if singing again, Gorloana said.

"The greatest trial shall come upon thee, the greatest destruction in the world shall befall thee. The Book of Traces, Section VI <World Collapse Azael>"

 The Book of Traces in Leibalschnedt is opened, and it turns into a magic circle.
 The shape of a turret is drawn, and black particles overflow from it.

 The fragments of raging magic swirled like living creatures and entangled with the turret of the magic circle.

 In the aftermath alone, the earth of traces shook, and countless books fell and danced in the sky from the huge shelves that rattled against the heavens.

"Hm. <The Extreme Prisoner of Hell's Destruction Ashes Cinder Cannon Egil Gurone Angudoroa>, huh?"
.
.
.

 The black particles formed a sevenfold spiral around the turret.
 A bottomless crack appeared in the land of traces, and it split this world in two.

"Traces of destruction---Egil Grone Angdrola, the ash-colored cannon of the extreme prison world."

 Liebarschnedt's voice emitted a heavy bass tone.
 From the turret of the magic circle, the fire of the apocalypse appears.

 The dark fire spiraled seven times and shot out with a roar.
 The moment I tried to duck from the approaching doomsday magic, I felt resistance in my limbs.

The "Trace of Binding-- <Yuen Binding Chain Gitchelje>."

 Transparent chains appeared out of nowhere and bound my limbs.
 No, I was already bound.

 As if the past had been altered, my body had been bound by the <Yuen Chain Gitchelje> before this moment.
.
.
.
Nirvana Seven Steps Conquest <Gilieriam Naviem> raises the level of all power.
With the release of magic power, all I did this time was walk.
The first step--
The huge bookshelves that lined the ground all collapsed, and all the books that contained traces of the world were thrown into the air.
One by one, the pages opened to reveal the traces of this world.
In the wilderness, the shadows of countless people began to appear. In the next moment, they were crushed by my first step, and perished without form.
The second step--
The books flying through the air were torn apart and countless pages were scattered.
Swarms of creatures appeared in the water, and birds and dragons appeared in the sky as shadows.
All traces of them were crushed by my feet, and all living things perished.
The third step--
The land shakes, and the countless scattered pages burst apart.
The canopy disappears, and the sky appears, revealing traces of the sun, stars, and moon.
Their shadows are crushed by my step and perish beyond the sky.
The fourth step--
More fragments of the scattered pages and traces dissipated.
The earth cracked into pieces, the lake dried up, and every plant and tree withered and perished.
The fifth step--
As if the traces of destruction were carved into the land, many bookshelves rise up again.
As if they were shaken, they shattered in an instant as if they were trampled.
The sky is crushed by my step, and the shattered heavens flicker above me.
The sixth step--
The earth, which is no longer a trace of anything, is simply trampled and shaken violently.
The only remaining light in front of me is trampled by my step, and the world closes in darkness.



Graham altered the Event happened in past which eas stored inside Book of Traces. Originally Graham killed Anos mother Luna and that event was already existed as past event. But Graham made it as Aberneyu (God of Destruction) Killed Anos mother. He just didn't Replaced her but whole event itself happened.

Original Event
 The moment all the jet-black flames were extinguished, Luna ran toward Graham.
 He laughed and bowed politely, like a curtain call on a stage.

"Thank you."

 Darkness begins to spread around them.

"<Galien, the true darkness of the cemetery.>"

 A darkness where no light can reach.

"I'm in trouble. I can't see anything."

 There was the sound of life ending.
 Graham's hand sliced through Luna's stomach.

"...... and ............"

 She fell to her knees.
 Still, he did a hand to protect her stomach.

"After you ...... are ......"

 At that moment, like a lightning bolt from a dark cloud, the purple lightning raced, and the Gaudgeimon pierced Graham's heart.

 The purple electricity raged inside Graham's body.
 Celis struck the source of it with all the destruction magic she could muster.

"<The sword of the world of ten purple electric rays, Lavia Neold Galvaryzen.>"

 An enormous amount of purple electricity annihilates Graham's body and its roots.

"See you later."

 He said it as casually as if he was going home, and the next moment, Graham perished without a trace.
 No, before he perished, he must have been reincarnated in the <mother-baby reincarnation Gigerica>

 Regardless, Celis turned his gaze loosely toward Luna, who was lying on the ground.
 The image stopped there.

The event Graham made it happen
The moment all the jet-black flames were extinguished, Luna ran toward the God of Destruction.

 She scraped away at her own roots to gather up the magical power she was supplying for Anos.
 Darkness began to spread around them.

"Galian, the graveyard of darkness."

 A darkness where no light can reach.

 It was a complete darkness where no smell, sound, or even the magic eye could reach.

"What a pity."

 In the darkness, Aberneyu turned her gaze to Luna.

"I told you that all will perish equally."

 Just as his divine eyes gleamed crimson, Luna's stomach was sliced open by her gaze.

"......a............"

 She fell to her knees with a clatter.
 Still, she put a hand on her stomach to protect it.

"You ...... will be ...... the rest."

 The darkness of the <Darkness Cemetery Galian> is cleared by the divine eye of Aberneyu.
 But only behind her, a pitch-black darkness remained.
 As if a bolt of lightning struck from the dark cloud, a purple lightning bolt raced out and pierced Aberneyu's heart.

"Wave body covered manifestation <Venezia>."

 Celis drew one spherical magic circle and nine possible spherical magic circles inside Aberneyu body.

"Wave body covered manifestation <Venezia>."

 Jijiji, a violent purple electricity raged inside the God of Destruction's body.
 Aiming at the source of it, Celis struck it with all the destruction magic he could muster.

"<Ravia Neold Galvaryzen,> the Thunder Sword of the Ten Violet Electricity Realms!"

 An enormous amount of purple electricity annihilated the body of the God of Destruction and its source.

"The god of destruction will not be destroyed. I am already destroyed."

 As soon as the girl's body seemed to expand and release several lines of purple electricity that twinkled like stars, the next moment, her figure was destroyed without a trace.
 The color of the world returns to its original purple, and silence reigns.

 There is no sign of Aberneyu coming back to life.
 At least, not here and now.



Past cannot be changed Gods has a Order of Traces which works like documentary or Narrative keeps the past as Past which is automatically returns Past to Past itself if someone alters it. Especially Changing contents in Book Of Traces is Stated to be impossible even if you try to Change the Past.

"Ah. The gods, who control time, have an order that determines the past as the past. When the magical effect of this <Time Traveling Levaron> expires and we return to the present, the temporal order will be activated and the altered past will be restored. If it's a small thing, it may remain the same. So, whatever we did 2,000 years ago will not affect the present."

"But what we see in the Book of Traces is the past itself. It is not so easily tampered with. Even if you change the past, it will be undone by the order of time."

 Indeed.

"Only when the power of the Book of Traces is activated, that is, when we are looking at it, is the past changed."

 Therefore, no change comes to the present.
 This is how he keeps me in the dark about the past.

"From the point of view of the ...... Trace God order, it is not easy to falsify the past. That means forcibly interfering with that person in the past, so ...... for example, demon king, if you wanted to change the contents of this trace you are talking to me about now, it would take the equivalent of brainwashing you."

 Apart from the power to falsify the book of traces, the falsification would not be possible without the power to brainwash me.
 Of course, it is impossible to brainwash me.



What Graham did was not just limited to Books. Frenzy God ability can be used to Falsify events in the Present also.

I grab him by the neck and he slumps his arms and legs down, but he still shines his eerie, cogwheeled, God's eye.

"Who do you think you are in front of?"

 My right hand is dyed with black Bevsd, the root death-killer.
 The neck of the cogwheel creaked as I tightened his grip on it.

 Immediately after that, the response disappeared, and he was behind me as if he had slipped through.

Hm. I thought I had him.
 I looked at Eques with my violet-tinted magic eyes.

"It's the power of Aganzon, the god of madness, isn't it?"

 He falsified events and deranged causes and effects.
Here Events and Cause and effect. Don't come here with an argument of event was changed because of Cause and effect because and is used to separate both things. Yes it's limited but it is still how Plot Manipulation works. Causality Manipulation page doesn't even says a single thing about Manipulating Events. Here you can clearly see meta Fictional Elements

If Dordilred, the god of sound, Aganzon, who falsifies events, and Galvadrion, who eats all things, stall for time, it will be impossible to destroy them in a mere 60 seconds unless they are caught by surprise.

It's Repeatedly states Frenzy God can change events. Where if he only manipulates Cause and effect it would have stated as he can manipulate Cause and effect because we already have a seperate God for Cause and effect.


CONCLUSION
  1. Frenzy God Authority can rewrite events without creating any paradox, such as Graham when he rewrote his existence and events which caused Anos mother death into Aberneyu Killing his mother where whole reality of those events Exists inside of Book of Traces like a narrative
  2. Same Goes for Trace God who can manipulate the stored record of events inside the books in Land of Traces and manipulate things to Happen. (Note all things & event's stored inside the book exists as real events. It has nothing to do with reality character lives. Book of traces books themselves are real and stores realities inside of them).

Characters who will get plot Manipulation based on this are

  • Eques & Other Chief Gods ( has frenzy God Authority and shown to rewrite events & he also has book of traces authority)
  • Militia (Creator God) & Aberneyu (Destruction God) of these Authority
  • Anos & Venozdonor for Being able to destroy the reason and capable making these events never happened if they want.


Another reason why this Qualifies for Plot Manipulation. Just check the link where it leads to.

 
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This is 10 times more annoying than me recreating the Arceus thread for the nth time. But unlike you, I did have the evidence for it🎅
 
This is 10 times more annoying than me recreating the Arceus thread for the nth time.
No one asked about Pokemon here & this is second time i am creating the thread stop acting like I already created numerous threads like this. We ain't the same.
But unlike you, I did have the evidence for it🎅
If you already read the previous thread and this clear you would definitely know both are different so stop it there. I don't want derailing comments here.
 
No one asked about Pokemon here & this is second time i am creating the thread stop acting like I already created numerous threads like this. We ain't the same.
If you already read the previous thread and this clear you would definitely know both are different so stop it there. I don't want derailing comments here.
I've read. No different same. With the same non qualifiers

The difference here is whataboutism.

Another thread that is going to be rejected and you might even earn yourself a discussion rule against it for maou
 
Another thread that is going to be rejected and you might even earn yourself a discussion rule against it for maou
Stop acting you are a supporter or staff like i said this is my second thread regarding this. If you don't like it just unfollow no one asked for your opinion on a thread needs to be closed or not.
 
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So where in any of these scans that you've posted does this have any connection to Castlevania's plot hax? Because this is just more of the same crap as before where it's just DBH timescrolls shenanigans.
 
So where in any of these scans that you've posted does this have any connection to Castlevania's plot hax? Because this is just more of the same crap as before where it's just DBH timescrolls shenanigans.
Can I see a scan from DB characters Manipulation events ? Also how book = Scrolls ?
 
You mean events in the world? AKA history? Because that doesn't sound any different than the time scrolls in DBH/Xenoverse. Especially when entire plotlines revolve around characters altering or controlling the time scrolls to create different events or change established events in the first place. You Book of Traces is hardly any different than a Time Scroll. Nothing about this screams metafictional aspects like castlevania's grimoires do where they're literal story books about what happened to Dracula and all the times he's been slained by the heroes. What part of this thread is any different compared to the last one aside from bringing two other franchises without really understanding the context?
 
You mean events in the world? AKA history? Because that doesn't sound any different than the time scrolls in DBH/Xenoverse. Especially when entire plotlines revolve around characters altering or controlling the time scrolls to create different events or change established events in the first place. You Book of Traces is hardly any different than a Time Scroll. Nothing about this screams metafictional aspects like castlevania's grimoires do where they're literal story books about what happened to Dracula and all the times he's been slained by the heroes. What part of this thread is any different compared to the last one aside from bringing two other franchises without really understanding the context?
  1. Book & Scrolls are way different
  2. I still don't see anyone Manipulating any events. All i see is DB character going into that scroll and other things of interaction. Book of traces is way different once you gets imprinted on it you will stay as record forever.
  3. Is there a scan where Castlesvania Grimoire are stated to be story books ?
  4. Narrative Can be anything it doesn't have to be storybook. Even real life documentary movies can be considered as stories. Not to mention most of the novels are written based on real life scenerio.
  5. Don't ignore the part where Anos got sealed even book of traces altered the contents inside the book.
  6. Whenever you change the past in DB it will create a new timeline which doesn't happen in MG past is kept as past by the order.
  7. Also castlevania and book of traces is similar by manipulating both you can achieve certain affect Castlevania book may have more quality that's doesn't disapprove book of traces qualifying for plot manipulation. Plot manipulation is limited to what Characters can do it doesn't have to manipulate whole reality.
  8. Anyway Graham Rewriting a big event is proof Enough to show meta Fictional Elements.
 
Completely irrelevant to my point, the form it takes is meaningless, all that matters is metafictional elements, which both DBH and MG lacks.

You mean what the demons in Xenoverse were doing that entire game? Because that's the whole story of the Xenoverse games where they change events which affects the scrolls.

Yeah, the entire plot of grimoire of souls where these storybooks are just that, story books about what happened because the organization wanted to learn how to combat dracula should he ever return again, only for the creatures inside the story book to warp the stories into chaos and breaking out into the real world.

Ok so why even bring up the scrolls and book being different if you're going to admit it's not even an important argument in the first place? So you're making a false equivalence here, because last time I checked a history book in our world doesn't have the power to change the past by erasing or messing with the pages.

Wow, Anos got sealed into a book, that totally means plot hax is a thing, and not just the fact a character sealed him away.

Literally irrelevant to my point when people who have access to the time scrolls can affect reality however they want.

Wow, what a great way to tell me you do not understand shit about the grimoires in Castlevania. Those grimoires are literally stories about what happened to dracula, nothing about the book controls the events across an entire timeline like the Book of Traces does here. Next time you try to bring comparisons from another franchise how about you actually do some research before assuming because you're not helping yourself at all here.

Tell me you don't know what metafictional means without telling me you don't know what metafictional means, because nothing about changing an event is in anyway shape or form metafictional, it's just him changing the past, that is it.

So remind me, what exactly is new here other than you bringing up two franchises as a comparison you have no clue on the full context for these series? Because if this is really the extent of the plot hax then this is a flat out no as usual.
 
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The world and event in this case are the content of that book, it is stated to be inscribed in the book. So the book literally making the world a part of what written in that

Honestly, changing the event that inscribed in the book is will not have plot manip. But changing the event by changing the book is different
 
Not really without the metafictional context necessary like changing the roles of the characters or the setting of the story or rewriting the script in a meta context, a book that contains events of the real world and changing the past with it isn't plot hax, just affecting a world.
 
Disagree. My opinion is that the context of the quotes don't point towards metafictional elements. Simply manipulating causality through books that record the past.
 
tbh Glass and Everything already said everything I ever could, so I'll hold off on responding to this with more redundant points. Disagree FRA.
 
Disagree. My opinion is that the context of the quotes don't point towards metafictional elements. Simply manipulating causality through books that record the past.
He didn't manipulated past. He literally rewrote the whole event inside the book not on the past both are completely different. Also I just wanna ask so you agree with Vampire D and Castlesvania plot manipulation?
 
Not really without the metafictional context necessary like changing the roles of the characters or the setting of the story or rewriting the script in a meta context, a book that contains events of the real world and changing the past with it isn't plot hax, just affecting a world.
Plot Manipulation is the ability to control the plot that governs reality. Commonly found in metafictional stories, the plot can be understood as a fundamental aspect of reality once one views that reality as fictional. It is the description of the world that doesn't only describe, but determines, reality itself. As such, by altering the plot, one can achieve virtually any effect, in a similar fashion as with Reality Warping.
Plot can be anything once a character sees somethings as Fiction. It's doens't states what you are saying. Also you again your ignoring what it's in the OP. Book of traces and past are different. The fact whole reality itself inside the book makes its meta Fictional.
 
He didn't manipulated past. He literally rewrote the whole event inside the book not on the past both are completely different. Also I just wanna ask so you agree with Vampire D and Castlesvania plot manipulation?
Dude

Shut the **** up about other verses' plothax. They have their own context that a 2 sentence description on a VS debating wiki can't accurately portray; Either decisively prove they are 100% identical to this scenario, or stop talking about it.
 
Completely irrelevant to my point, the form it takes is meaningless, all that matters is metafictional elements, which both DBH and MG lacks.
Feel free point out which meta Fiction Elements MG lacks.
You mean what the demons in Xenoverse were doing that entire game? Because that's the whole story of the Xenoverse games where they change events which affects the scrolls.
They change the events by directly going to past affecting things nothing shows any similarities between MG and DBHS
Yeah, the entire plot of grimoire of souls where these storybooks are just that, story books about what happened because the organization wanted to learn how to combat dracula should he ever return again, only for the creatures inside the story book to warp the stories into chaos and breaking out into the real world.
I asked for is there any statement for Grimoire are just storybooks like that. I don't see any difference between MG and Castlesvania from what you said
Ok so why even bring up the scrolls and book being different if you're going to admit it's not even an important argument in the first place? So you're making a false equivalence here, because last time I checked a history book in our world doesn't have the power to change the past by erasing or messing with the pages.
One who brought that up was you not me

Scrolls of past which is linked to past ≠ book which has records of past. So only false Equalence is your argument.
Wow, Anos got sealed into a book, that totally means plot hax is a thing, and not just the fact a character sealed him away.
Anos Got sealed in Land of Traces where History repeats again and again like a narrative. Documentary is narrative itself Unlike DB care BOOK of Traces exists as a Documentary.
A narrative, story, or tale is any account of a series of related events or experiences,[1][2] whether nonfictional (memoir, biography, news report, documentary, travelogue, etc.) or fictional (fairy tale, fable, legend, thriller, novel, etc.).[3][4][5] Narratives can be presented through a sequence of written or spoken words, through still or moving images, or through any combination of these.
Literally irrelevant to my point when people who have access to the time scrolls can affect reality however they want.
It's relevant because you are the only one who is bringing Irrelevant examples. Scrolls are just connecting to past like time travelling things but Book of Traces isn't
Wow, what a great way to tell me you do not understand shit about the grimoires in Castlevania. Those grimoires are literally stories about what happened to dracula, nothing about the book controls the events across an entire timeline like the Book of Traces does here. Next time you try to bring comparisons from another franchise how about you actually do some research before assuming because you're not helping yourself at all here.
Book of Traces itself is just a Books containing Past events of what's happened in the unchangeable. Also can you drop a scan for Grimoire are stories here ? Because I couldn't see that in the profile links.
Tell me you don't know what metafictional means without telling me you don't know what metafictional means, because nothing about changing an event is in anyway shape or form metafictional, it's just him changing the past, that is it.
Just another point from your ignorance. i will say this again thousands times if I have to Until you get it. He didn't changed past he changed the events inside the book and changing events is meta Fictional if it's done inside the book. Read the plot manipulation page again. One viewing the reality itself as Fiction does make it as meta Fictional..
So remind me, what exactly is new here other than you bringing up two franchises as a comparison you have no clue on the full context for these series? Because if this is really the extent of the plot hax then this is a flat out no as usual.
No your arguments are based on Ignorance

Book of Traces stores the Replica of Past inside the book where you can't enter where DB characters stores the time travel link to past where characters can enter. Both are completely different.
 
Dude

Shut the **** up about other verses' plothax.
Why don't you mind your language?
They have their own context that a 2 sentence description on a VS debating wiki can't accurately portray; Either decisively prove they are 100% identical to this scenario, or stop talking about it.
I literally posted explanation from them showing how identical they are at this point you are desperately ignoring.
Causality Manipulation and Plot Manipulation (Users can rewrite events without creating any paradox, such as D when he rewrote their entire journey so that Sue and Matthew worked with Braujou and Miranda to slay Valcua and live a happy life as per their mother's wishes, without knowing who D is, or getting affected by Valcua.),
 
I literally posted explanation from them showing how identical they are at this point you are desperately ignoring.
Because, again, there is likely additional context being discarded in favor of a more concise explanation. I don't know the full reason why D has plothax, and I doubt you do either; VSBW profiles are never indicative of everything a verse tells you, which is why whataboutism like this is so consistently wrong.

Why don't you mind your language?
nah
 
Not really without the metafictional context necessary like changing the roles of the characters or the setting of the story or rewriting the script in a meta context, a book that contains events of the real world and changing the past with it isn't plot hax, just affecting a world.
Disagree. My opinion is that the context of the quotes don't point towards metafictional elements. Simply manipulating causality through books that record the past.
Clear cut this links goes to plot manipulation page. Unless we are contacting with how wiki explanation page states what I am arguing is Qualifies for Plot Manipulation.

@Theglassman12 if you want to still disagree fine but don't bring unnecessary things. DBHS has no concept of storing records inside a book as Copy it's just real history and time travel Bullshit. MG stores the copy as Documentary which is narrative by definition.

@Everything12 Book of Traces and Past both are different. Book of Traces exists as Seperate reality. Whatever is written in Book of Traces is just copy of Real events from past as documentary which is clear cut definition for narrative. And From both Plot Manipulation and Text Manipulation page it should qualify for current Standard
 
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Because, again, there is likely additional context being discarded in favor of a more concise explanation. I don't know the full reason why D has plothax, and I doubt you do either; VSBW profiles are never indicative of everything a verse tells you, which is why whataboutism like this is so consistently wrong.
D has plot manipulation because of All events stored inside the Akashic records which is book. And I did read the whole thing before Comparing both.
 
Aight, then I disagree with D's plothax too lol

Maybe there are better reasons for it, but just because another verse has something for a reason doesn't mean that reason is valid. Again, this is why whataboutism doesn't work.
 
Aight, then I disagree with D's plothax too lol

Maybe there are better reasons for it, but just because another verse has something for a reason doesn't mean that reason is valid. Again, this is why whataboutism doesn't work.
Not really because what plot manipulation and text manipulation page 5 possible explanation states once you view reality as Fiction it does works as meta Fictional Elements. Unless you want to make a staff discussion thread and change yeh definition of Things in wiki just so MG doens't get plot manipulation because of Explanation in those page feel free.

I do agree with Plot Manipulation up until one views the reality as Fiction inside Books which is stated in Text Manipulation page.

 
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I disagree FRA, nothing to really be said other then whataboutisms ain't an argument and if those verses have these exact same copy paste reasons for plot hax then they should be downgraded too.

Two wrongs don't make a right ya know
 
I disagree FRA, nothing to really be said other then whataboutisms ain't an argument and if those verses have these exact same copy paste reasons for plot hax then they should be downgraded too.

Two wrongs don't make a right ya know
My argument isn't about them having same thing. I even copy pasted wiki explanation page the scenerio clear cut matches what presented in the OP. Graham rewrote a event without creating paradox or something and that reality exists inside the book

 
My argument isn't about them having same thing. I even copy pasted wiki explanation page the scenerio clear cut matches what presented in the OP. Graham rewrote a event without creating paradox or something and that reality exists inside the book
Okay... and... what?

The second part is what links to Plot Manipulation "the manipulation of the characters and events of the real world, comparable with that as a regular writer can manipulate the characters of his novel." This is Plot manipulation. "translated into the reality of all the events recorded in the book (while accompanied by the creation of the new world)" this isn't.

I don't even have a horse in this race I'm just... confused.
 
Okay... and... what?

The second part is what links to Plot Manipulation "the manipulation of the characters and events of the real world, comparable with that as a regular writer can manipulate the characters of his novel." This is Plot manipulation. "translated into the reality of all the events recorded in the book (while accompanied by the creation of the new world)" this isn't.

I don't even have a horse in this race I'm just... confused.
Graham's abilities worked on both reality and book it's not just limited to Book. Have you read the OP or just going by your own assumption?
 
Not really without the metafictional context necessary like changing the roles of the characters or the setting of the story or rewriting the script in a meta context, a book that contains events of the real world and changing the past with it isn't plot hax, just affecting a world.
Graham's abilities worked on both reality and book it's not just limited to Book.
This is precisely what Glass was on about I feel, I read the OP, I read the thread, and I've made an opinion and voted. I feel one side is more right so I'm siding with them, if there's an issue argue it with them when they come online not me who literally only really cares enough to click, read, and vote
 
He didn't manipulated past. He literally rewrote the whole event inside the book not on the past both are completely different. Also I just wanna ask so you agree with Vampire D and Castlesvania plot manipulation?
Whataboutism and disagree for reasons above.
 
This is precisely what Glass was on about I feel, I read the OP, I read the thread, and I've made an opinion and voted. I feel one side is more right so I'm siding with them, if there's an issue argue it with them when they come online not me who literally only really cares enough to click, read, and vote
Fine
Anyway I have to point out he was clearly wrong on the part where he said Changing the past which is completely wrong with what I am arguing here. Also narrative can be many things it also includes Documentary.

A narrative, story, or tale is any account of a series of related events or experiences,[1][2] whether nonfictional (memoir, biography, news report, documentary, travelogue, etc.) or fictional (fairy tale, fable, legend, thriller, novel, etc.).[3][4][5] Narratives can be presented through a sequence of written or spoken words, through still or moving images, or through any combination of these.
 
Whataboutism and disagree for reasons above.
More like from my POV I would call it double standards but I OK 🌛Whatever you want to think. Also if Taking Example is Whatsboutism then there is staff himself i know who uses this logic to support his claims.
 
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