Plants vs Zombies 2: Updated Torchwood Multiplier Scaling

[Padaruyos]

Recently there's an upgrade on making plants that deals 500 damage and above to scale to this new calc (Shadow Peashooter Plant Food explosion). Some scaling changes can be made to many other plants in various damage levels thanks to Torchwood's 2x multiplier.

Torchwood's 2x multiplier has already been accepted for PvZ2 scaling usage. The aim of this thread is to expand the usage of this multiplier, not just for upscaling but also downscaling. The scaling is done using damage values and how it relates to the Torchwood multiplier and the above linked calculation.

Damage values for this scaling are obtained through these pages: Primal Peashooter, Peashooter, Pea Pod

Shadow Peashooter Plant Food (500 damage): 33.1 Tons (City Block level)

Multiplier Downscaling
Level 13 Primal Peashooter does 250 damage with Plant Food and Torchwood doubles it to 500: 33.1 Tons (City Block level)
Level 13 Primal Peashooter Plant Food (250 damage): 16.55 Tons (City Block level)
Level 13 Primal Peashooter base attack + Torchwood (260 damage): 16.55 Tons (City Block level)
Level 13 Primal Peashooter (130 damage): 8.275 Tons (Large Building level+)
Level 4 Primal Peashooter + Torchwood (130 damage): 8.275 Tons (Large Building level+)
Level 4 Primal Peashooter (65 damage) : 4.1375 Tons (Large Building level)
Level 4 Peashooter + Torchwood (70 damage): 4.1375 Tons (Large Building level)
Level 4 Peashooter (35 damage): 2.068 Tons (Large Building level)
Level 1 Peashooter + Torchwood (40 damage): 2.068 Tons (Large Building level)
Level 1 Peashooter (20 damage): 1.034 Tons (Building level)

Multiplier Upscaling
Level 6 Pea Pod Plant Food deals 500 damage: 33.1 Tons (City Block level)
Torchwood doubles its power (1000 damage): 66.2 Tons (City Block level+)

Scaling
Plants that deals less than 20 damage scales to 0.3824 Tons for harming zombies who can tank a lightning strike (Building level)
Plants that deals 20 damage scales to 1.034 Tons (Building level)
Plants that deals between 21 to 27 damage upscales to 1.125 Tons (Building level+)
Plants that deals between 28 to 34 damage downscales to 2 Tons (Large Building level)
Plants that deals 35 damage scales to 2.068 Tons (Large Building level)
Plants that deals 65 damage scales to 4.1375 Tons (Large Building level)
Plants that deals 130 damage scales to 8.275 Tons (Large Building level+)
Plants that deals 250 damage scales to 16.55 Tons (City Block level)
Plants that deals 500 damage scales to 33.1 Tons (City Block level)
Plants that deals 1000 damage scales to 66.2 Tons (City Block level+)
Instant kill plants that deals 1800 damage scales far above 66.2 Tons (At least City Block level+), also scales to Gargantuar and other plants and zombies on his level
Zomboss mechs scales far above 66.2 Tons by being able to one shot Gargantuars and extremely durable plants such as the Primal Wallnut (At least City Block level+, likely far higher)

Votes (Staff members in bold):
Agree: @Ednaxel2
Disagree:
Neutral:

 

[Ednaxel2]

The 2x statement is also reinforced in PvZ 1 and Heroes so it's consistent. Anyways I agree with the OP

 

[JustANormalLemon]

The 2x statement is also reinforced in PvZ 1 and Heroes so it's consistent. Anyways I agree with the OP

How is It reinforced in heroes?

 

[Ednaxel2]

How is It reinforced in heroes?

my mistake it doesn't, but still it being stated twice is enough

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I think this might be game mechanics, we don't assume multipliers based on stacked damage ratings.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I think this might be game mechanics, we don't assume multipliers based on stacked damage ratings.

To be fair, the lore description for the Torchwood does straight up say it doubles damage done to enemies.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

To be fair, the lore description for the Torchwood does straight up say it doubles damage done to enemies.

I know, but that's just refering to how much HP per attack it depletes, which doesn't translate to how many Joules of energy it outputs. AP and Durability do not behave like a fixed linear HP system.

 

[Ednaxel2]

I think this might be game mechanics, we don't assume multipliers based on stacked damage ratings.

We only use damage ratings to say "character A is stronger than character B" and with the 2x multiplier we can get character B over character A, so then B would downscale 0.5x from A's feat without the multiplier

 

[JustANormalLemon]

I mean, we do use buffing abilities that double damage as valid, I do'nt see why torch wood shouldn't

 

[Ednaxel2]

Bump

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

If it's a lowballed downscaling, I guess that makes more sense on paper, but I'd still put it in roughly similar ballpark levels.

 

[Ednaxel2]

If it's a lowballed downscaling, I guess that makes more sense on paper, but I'd still put it in roughly similar ballpark levels.

wdym "roughly similar ballpark levels" like all the plants should be in closer levels of power?

 

[Ednaxel2]

Bump

 

[Ednaxel2]

Bump

 

[Ednaxel2]

Bump

 

[Ednaxel2]

Bump

 

[Ednaxel2]

Bump

 

[Ednaxel2]

Bump

 

[Ednaxel2]

Bump, also:
To further justify the scaling of using the 2x Torchwood multipliers for PvZ1/2, the Conehead Zombie is noted to take twice as much damage as regular ones in both PvZ1 and PvZ2, with them being able to defeat single Peashooters, the player is forced to beat them by bringing in twice the fire power as before (a repeaters that shoots twice as much as Peashooter or 2 Peashooters needing to take down a cone)

Also please be aware that the damage ratings of the Plants is not taken from the game code or anything for PvZ2, it's directly shown in the almanac.

 

[Ednaxel2]

Bump

 

[JustANormalLemon]

Someone should add here the fact the in real life manual that is cannon to the games made by crazy dave explains that torch wood does in fact multiply the damage giving a even more direct confirmation

 

[Ednaxel2]

Someone should add here the fact the in real life manual that is cannon to the games made by crazy dave explains that torch wood does in fact multiply the damage giving a even more direct confirmation

Could you show the scan?

 

[JustANormalLemon]

 

[GarrixianXD]

I'm in agreement with DDM here.

 

[Ednaxel2]

I'm in agreement with DDM here.

With his statement here?:

If it's a lowballed downscaling, I guess that makes more sense on paper, but I'd still put it in roughly similar ballpark levels.

Also what's the alternative here? I don't really get "similar ballpark levels"

 

[GarrixianXD]

With his statement here?:

Also what's the alternative here? I don't really get "similar ballpark levels"

I mean game mechanics.

 

[Ednaxel2]

I mean game mechanics.

Well the Torchwood multiplier isn't gameplay based, it's stated outside of the games in a guide

https://i.ibb.co/wzY1f8Z/Torchwood.png

 

[JustANormalLemon]

The guide was writen by Crazy dave, the one whocreated the plants

I mean game mechanics.

 

[GarrixianXD]

That could merely mean multiplying the potency and the kinetic energy outputted from the plants. It does not necessarily guarantee that he’s referring to the damage in-game itself, hence it would be quite a vague postulation. Also, not to mention Crazy Dave is known for using his twaddling method of speaking so I’m not sure if his statements could be reliable in a literal sense.

 

[JustANormalLemon]

That could merely mean multiplying the potency and the kinetic energy outputted from the plants. It does not necessarily guarantee that he’s referring to the damage in-game itself, hence it would be quite a vague postulation. Also, not to mention Crazy Dave is known for using his twaddling method of speaking so I’m not sure if his statements could be reliable in a literal sense.

Just no... crazy dave may be crazy but he is quite straight foward when actually explaning plant abilities and sorry but It's quite clearly stated that the pea being on fire makes It do double the damage It normaly does, you need to really be straching to argument that this don't straight up isn't just a in cannon moment of acknowledgement of the damaging doubling ability of the torchwood, the literaly only 2 moment in the entire series that the torchwood don't straight up double the damage of peas is in pvz2 when using plant food making his fire blue that triples the damage instead and in pvz heroes where It adds +2 to the damage of peas behind It. This one being a outlier enough and too rooted in game mechanics to not be considered a outlier

In the most respectable way possible the only way to disregard all the evidence that torchwood in fact doubles the AP of shooted peas is making some intense mental acrobatics

Would be like saying pokemon moves like sword dance do not double the pokemon ap or thatother damage multiplying moves, abilities or passives in other games shouldn't be counted, here we have literaly a in cannon statment of the multiplier what is more then most verses could say.

Alsosomeone should call Dark back too see the new proff too

Aorry the ranting

 

[GarrixianXD]

I never denied that the torchwood can’t double the energy output. What I mean the actual stats shouldn’t be directly scaled off from the stats in-game.

 

[JustANormalLemon]

I mean, the objective is't really to make accurate values, jusap"jusap"this chatacter ap is closer to this other then this one"

If that makes sense

 

[Ednaxel2]

Man two mods disagreeing, maybe an alternative to getting rid of Torchwood multipliers should be set up?

 

[JustANormalLemon]

Man two mods disagreeing, maybe an alternative to getting rid of Torchwood multipliers should be set up?

I mean, the multiplier is being agreed on, what they are disagreein is using It to scale plants that do similar damage

 

[Padaruyos]

I think it should be noted that this isn't exactly linear downscaling. The way this scaling is constructed is by having a plant that deals as much or more damage with the help of Torchwood to scale to half the value of another plant. This isn't exactly linear and is lowballed, as Peashooter's 20 damage ended up being 3% the AP value of S. Peashooter's PF despite having 4% of its damage (20 vs 500)

However if downscaling is problematic, I can remove downscaling from the OP and use our existing scaling we have for 10-500 damage plants. Then this CRT will only be used for upscaling plants that deals 1000 damage and above.

 

[Ednaxel2]

I mean, the multiplier is being agreed on, what they are disagreein is using It to scale plants that do similar damage

I mean the damage ratings are shown directly in their almanac descriptions so it should be fine to scale one plant over or under another with that, just not linearly

I think it should be noted that this isn't exactly linear downscaling. The way this scaling is constructed is by having a plant that deals as much or more damage with the help of Torchwood to scale to half the value of another plant. This isn't exactly linear and is lowballed, as Peashooter's 20 damage ended up being 3% the AP value of S. Peashooter's PF despite having 4% of its damage (20 vs 500)

However if downscaling is problematic, I can remove downscaling from the OP and use our existing scaling we have for 10-500 damage plants. Then this CRT will only be used for upscaling plants that deals 1000 damage and above.

^^^

 

[GarrixianXD]

I mean, the objective is't really to make accurate values, jusap"jusap"this chatacter ap is closer to this other then this one"

If that makes sense

I can only agree with the torchwood retaining the ability to amplify damage by 2 times. I'm disagreeing with everything else tho.

 

[Ednaxel2]

I can only agree with the torchwood retaining the ability to amplify damage by 2 times. I'm disagreeing with everything else tho.

What's the other issues you have?

 

[Greatsage13th]

I agree with the op

 

[Ednaxel2]

Bump