Phoenix Force CRT

[MarvelFanatic119]

Hi just wanted to add new stuff for the Phoenix since its profile seems barebones at the moment. Here are some new stuff to add and some scans for stuff already there:

Immortality Type 4:

The Phoenix Force is a resurrection force that represents an assurance that life will will rise from death, a new beginning. (X-Men Forever Vol 1 #6)

Abstract Existence (Type 1)
Phoenix confirms Rachel's assertion that it is a force of nature, though it corrects her by confirming its sentience. (Excalibur Vol 1 #64)

Phoenix Force confirming that life depends on it to survive and that all of creation is apart of it. (Classic X-Men #8)

The Phoenix Force describes itself as a cosmic conduit for the cosmic life-force for the universe. If Phoenix perishes, the universe perishes, which in turn is why it continues to defy the cosmic abstract, Death. (Excalibur Vol 1 #63)

Madness Manipulation (Type 2 and 3):
Created a form for Jane Foster's mind to comprehend, stated it would burn her to a crisp with a laugh. (Mighty Thor Vol 2 #19)

Its very presence could leave a mere mortal blinded and maddened, which pales in comparison to the actual touch of its flames. (Mighty Thor Vol 2 #18)

Illusion Creation and Perception Manipulation
Trapped Charles Xavier in an illusion when he probed Rachel's mind. He noted that a small percentage of that power could have been used to destroy him. He learned that he was trapped in that illusion for 10 hours. (Excalibur #52)

Wipes Jean's memory, implants false ones, and gives her an illusion of a normal version of Annadale-on-Hudson Drive and other landmarks. (Phoenix Resurrection: Return of Jean Grey #4) Also counts as Memory Manipulation

The Phoenix creates solid illusions inside the entire town of people Jean has met in her history and are dead at the time. (Phoenix Resurrection: Return of Jean Grey #1-5)

Memory Manipulation
Phoenix causes Jean to have a vision of her becoming Dark Phoenix and killing both the X-Men and Fantastic Four with her newfound power. Once Jean snaps out of it, she can't recall the details of what she saw, nor could either Moira McTaggert or Charles Xavier find any hint of what happened beyond Jeans vague feeling of it being dreamlike. (X-Men: Hidden Years #8, 9, 10)

Phoenix Force replicates Jeans consciousness into an empty shell exactly like Jean, making itself believe to be Jean herself. (Classic X-Men #8 which was adapted from Fantastic Four Vol 1 #286)

Resistance to Telepathy
Phoenix blocks Roma, who was Majestrix of Otherworld and Guardian of the Omniverse at this point of her history, from reading comatose Rachel Summer's mind. (Excalibur Vol 1 #50)

Invisibility
The Phoenix conceals it Egg to be completely invisible to all of the X-Men and compels them to leave with its powers. Only Illyana's intuition and power uncovers the Egg. (Phoenix Resurrection: Return of Jean Grey #3)

Death Manipulation
It displays its full control over life and death when it brings Scott back from the dead and then returns him to death right before Jean's eyes. (Phoenix Resurrection: Return of Jean Grey #5)

Time Stop
Phoenix Force freezes time around Jean as it speaks to her. (Fantastic Four Vol 1 #286)

Statistics Amplification, Matter Manipulation (Subatomic level), Energy Projection, Time Travel, and Existence Erasure
It can project blasts of fire, manipulate matter on a subatomic level, augment any super-powers its host has to nigh-incalculable levels, transmigrate through time and space by folding its energy back into itself, causing it to collapse akin to a black hole and deny future generations their existence by tapping into their life force every time it manifests itself on the physical plane. (X-Men: Phoenix Force Handbook)

Healing
Scaling from the Phoenix Five, where Emma claimed they were able to heal Hawkeye despite how greatly burned he is. (Avengers vs X-Men #7)

Possible Dimensional Travel
The Phoenix Force supercharges Rachel's powers to send her to Earth-616 from Earth-811. (Excalibur #52)

Will look more later in the future. What do you guys think?

 

[Eficiente]

Immortality Type 4:

The Phoenix Force is a resurrection force that represents an assurance that life will will rise from death, a new beginning. (X-Men Forever Vol 1 #6)

That doesn't mean it itself can revive and will always do so, only that it can revive others. It doesn't even give type 4 for its users.

Abstract Existence (Type 1)
Phoenix confirms Rachel's assertion that it is a force of nature, though it corrects her by confirming its sentience. (Excalibur Vol 1 #64)

Phoenix Force confirming that life depends on it to survive and that all of creation is apart of it. (Classic X-Men #8)

The Phoenix Force describes itself as a cosmic conduit for the cosmic life-force for the universe. If Phoenix perishes, the universe perishes, which in turn is why it continues to defy the cosmic abstract, Death. (Excalibur Vol 1 #63)

I get the first one is there as supporting evidence but it can't be that as it doesn't mean AE. A tornado is a force of nature.

What you say is not what the Phoenix Force says there. She claims being "the sum and substance" of all life, hope and dreams, thereby knowing a person from its conception in a similar way that it knew the universe, meaning that it does't seem to be poetic. It could be Nigh-Omnipresence due to being those things, and it could also be AE due to those things unless being the sum and substance of them makes her something else. It's weird.

Being a conduit for the cosmic life-force doesn't mean anything AE wise. It doesn't seem as simple as she dying and the universe doing the same, but more like Death having some upper hand in her task or something. Resisting Death doesn't have anything that would make them equal beings, especially with this forsook godhood Phoenix has.

Madness Manipulation (Type 2 and 3):
Created a form for Jane Foster's mind to comprehend, stated it would burn her to a crisp with a laugh. (Mighty Thor Vol 2 #19)

Its very presence could leave a mere mortal blinded and maddened, which pales in comparison to the actual touch of its flames. (Mighty Thor Vol 2 #18)

That has nothing to do with Madness, Jane's made only sees Phoenix in a way that see undertands it, that's Perception Manip. The other bit is just one big AP gap. And there's also Resistance to Summoning stated there, that one's a weird one to have.

It's fine but seems a bit poetic, fortunnately those visuals add up to it. It's not "its very presence", just the sight of it, it says nothing about mortals being the ones targets and that happening to them, just blinded and "quite mad".

Also why are this single images of evidence in albums?

Illusion Creation and Perception Manipulation
Trapped Charles Xavier in an illusion when he probed Rachel's mind. He noted that a small percentage of that power could have been used to destroy him. He learned that he was trapped in that illusion for 10 hours. (Excalibur #52)

Wipes Jean's memory, implants false ones, and gives her an illusion of a normal version of Annadale-on-Hudson Drive and other landmarks. (Phoenix Resurrection: Return of Jean Grey #4) Also counts as Memory Manipulation

The Phoenix creates solid illusions inside the entire town of people Jean has met in her history and are dead at the time. (Phoenix Resurrection: Return of Jean Grey #1-5)

Yes.

Well, sorry, you're most likely correct but we can't just use that as evidence, it only proves the first 2 powers done by someone.

Doesn't seem like an illusion, just things looking like that people being moved by Phoenix and revived in a zombie-like way, but all real.

Memory Manipulation
Phoenix causes Jean to have a vision of her becoming Dark Phoenix and killing both the X-Men and Fantastic Four with her newfound power. Once Jean snaps out of it, she can't recall the details of what she saw, nor could either Moira McTaggert or Charles Xavier find any hint of what happened beyond Jeans vague feeling of it being dreamlike. (X-Men: Hidden Years #8, 9, 10)

Phoenix Force replicates Jeans consciousness into an empty shell exactly like Jean, making itself believe to be Jean herself. (Classic X-Men #8 which was adapted from Fantastic Four Vol 1 #286)

Yes.

What's happening doesn't seem like what you're saying, it just seems like Duplication for her mind and it being placed in the Phoenix's, which can be Mind Manip too. I don't see the part where the copy isn't Jean.

Resistance to Telepathy
Phoenix blocks Roma, who was Majestrix of Otherworld and Guardian of the Omniverse at this point of her history, from reading comatose Rachel Summer's mind. (Excalibur Vol 1 #50)

Those classifications are those. It just says that it guard from perceptions, that can be Eesistance to Extrasensory Perception but has no evidence to be Telepathy.

Invisibility
The Phoenix conceals it Egg to be completely invisible to all of the X-Men and compels them to leave with its powers. Only Illyana's intuition and power uncovers the Egg. (Phoenix Resurrection: Return of Jean Grey #3)

Yes.

Death Manipulation
It displays its full control over life and death when it brings Scott back from the dead and then returns him to death right before Jean's eyes. (Phoenix Resurrection: Return of Jean Grey #5)

Well, it seems to come out of Age Manip, he's only with some white hairs at the end and before it he might have been in later 40s or older.

Time Stop
Phoenix Force freezes time around Jean as it speaks to her. (Fantastic Four Vol 1 #286)

Yes.

Statistics Amplification, Matter Manipulation (Subatomic level), Energy Projection, Time Travel, and Existence Erasure
It can project blasts of fire, manipulate matter on a subatomic level, augment any super-powers its host has to nigh-incalculable levels, transmigrate through time and space by folding its energy back into itself, causing it to collapse akin to a black hole and deny future generations their existence by tapping into their life force every time it manifests itself on the physical plane. (X-Men: Phoenix Force Handbook)

Ah, I'm gonna leave others to see this one.

Healing
Scaling from the Phoenix Five, where Emma claimed they were able to heal Hawkeye despite how greatly burned he is. (Avengers vs X-Men #7)

Doesn't they have tech for that in the place where they are? Otherwise why did they move him there.

Possible Dimensional Travel
The Phoenix Force supercharges Rachel's powers to send her to Earth-616 from Earth-811. (Excalibur #52)

This needs more context, otherwise it's Time Travel. You can go from 1 timeline to another via Time Travel.

Very good work overall.

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

Thanks, I'm still looking over other scans so I'll post them when I have the time.

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

Time Travel
After sending a portion of itself to Jean at the bottom of Jamaica Bay, it follows Rachel's Astral Form to her alternate future. (Excalibur #52)

Matter Manipulation (subatomic level)
Scaling from the Phoenix Gun, a planet destroying gun with a bullet with the flames of the Phoenix in it, which can kill the person who fired it by ripping them apart at the subatomic level. (Astonishing Spider-Man & Wolverine #2)

Possession and Corruption (Type 1)
The Phoenix Force is known to possess Hosts and imbue them with its power, however this can corrupt them and cause them to go on a rampage.

Immortality (Types 1, 4, & 9)
The Phoenix Force can go into the White Hot Room anytime it dies so it can resurrect itself, this also applies to its hosts as well. (X-Men Phoenix: Endsong #1) (What If? Rise and Fall of the Shi'ar Empire)

Possible Existence Erasure
The Phoenix claims it steals life from the future of the universe just by living (likely the reference of the "denying existences" part of the handbook scan shown earlier) (Excalibur Vol 1 #63)


Feats from the Hosts of the Phoenix Force (their feats and abilities should scale since all of them are due to the power the Phoenix Force gives, which should also apply it Power Bestowal as well for giving them these new powers)

Empathic Manipulation
Scales from Echo, who calms Hulk's (Jennifer Walters) anger and takes her Phoenix portion to stop her from losing control of herself. (Avengers Vol 8 #44)

Precognition
Scaling from Wolverine, who foresees the future of a planet destined to explode and scatter its diamond across the cosmos. (Astonishing Spider-Man & Wolverine #5) and after travelling to the past, received a vision of the fate of Peter Parker's/Spider-Man's Uncle Ben (Astonishing Spider-Man & Wolverine #4).

Cosmic Awareness and Nigh Omniscience (the latter is for the Intelligence section of Phoenix's profile)
Scaling from Fongji Wu, a previous Iron Fist, who the Phoenix grants awareness about the cosmos (New Avengers Vol 2 #27) and Hyperion, whose cosmic awareness was overwhelming him with the sheer sounds and sensations (Avengers Vol 8 #41).

Energy Absorption
Scaling from Celeste, who absorbed Cyclops' optic blasts with no issues (X-Men Phoenix: Warsong #4) as well as absorb the other Phoenix Force fragments from her other sisters (X-Men: Warsong #5)

Biological Manipulation
Scales from Celeste, who layers her zombified-sisters dead bones with fresh cells, rather than the rotting flesh they used to have. (X-Men Phoenix: Warsong #4)

 

[Eficiente]

Time Travel
After sending a portion of itself to Jean at the bottom of Jamaica Bay, it follows Rachel's Astral Form to her alternate future. (Excalibur #52)

Yes.

Matter Manipulation (subatomic level)
Scaling from the Phoenix Gun, a planet destroying gun with a bullet with the flames of the Phoenix in it, which can kill the person who fired it by ripping them apart at the subatomic level. (Astonishing Spider-Man & Wolverine #2)

Yes.

Possession and Corruption (Type 1)
The Phoenix Force is known to possess Hosts and imbue them with its power, however this can corrupt them and cause them to go on a rampage.

Ok.

Immortality (Types 1, 4, & 9)
The Phoenix Force can go into the White Hot Room anytime it dies so it can resurrect itself, this also applies to its hosts as well. (X-Men Phoenix: Endsong #1) (What If? Rise and Fall of the Shi'ar Empire)

We don't really use What Ifs, I'm ok with using it as it fits in the Phoenix healing there but the hosts doing it too wouldn't be applied. It also doesn't show types 1 and 9.

Possible Existence Erasure
The Phoenix claims it steals life from the future of the universe just by living (likely the reference of the "denying existences" part of the handbook scan shown earlier) (Excalibur Vol 1 #63)

No, that's just a poetic way of saying that as it lives she kills others, because others who die don't have a future.

Empathic Manipulation
Scales from Echo, who calms Hulk's (Jennifer Walters) anger and takes her Phoenix portion to stop her from losing control of herself. (Avengers Vol 8 #44)

She just seems confused at the attack.

Precognition
Scaling from Wolverine, who foresees the future of a planet destined to explode and scatter its diamond across the cosmos. (Astonishing Spider-Man & Wolverine #5) and after travelling to the past, received a vision of the fate of Peter Parker's/Spider-Man's Uncle Ben (Astonishing Spider-Man & Wolverine #4).

Ok.

Cosmic Awareness and Nigh Omniscience (the latter is for the Intelligence section of Phoenix's profile)
Scaling from Fongji Wu, a previous Iron Fist, who the Phoenix grants awareness about the cosmos (New Avengers Vol 2 #27) and Hyperion, whose cosmic awareness was overwhelming him with the sheer sounds and sensations (Avengers Vol 8 #41).

Yes for Cosmic Awareness, but it doesn't seem enough for the other, it's just Enhance Sense with universal range.

Energy Absorption
Scaling from Celeste, who absorbed Cyclops' optic blasts with no issues (X-Men Phoenix: Warsong #4) as well as absorb the other Phoenix Force fragments from her other sisters (X-Men: Warsong #5)

Idk if she absorbed the optic blast, it would be some heat empowerment. The other I guess it's fine but those being parts of herself kinda simplifies to manipulate that.

Biological Manipulation
Scales from Celeste, who layers her zombified-sisters dead bones with fresh cells, rather than the rotting flesh they used to have. (X-Men Phoenix: Warsong #4)

Ok.

Feats from the Hosts of the Phoenix Force (their feats and abilities should scale since all of them are due to the power the Phoenix Force gives, which should also apply it Power Bestowal as well for giving them these new powers)

They should scale but they shouldn't all be in listed in everyone's profile 1 by 1, just what they themselves showed having and then something saying that they could use those other powers while linking the Phoenix's profile.

 

[Comicgyal]

Agreed with everything.

 

[Comicgyal]

By the way, I agree with nigh omniscience, but this might be a better supporting evidence scan for the Phoenix.

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

They should scale but they shouldn't all be in listed in everyone's profile 1 by 1, just what they themselves showed having and then something saying that they could use those other powers while linking the Phoenix's profile.

No what I meant is that these abilities should scale to the Phoenix since everyone here did these feats only because of the Phoenix's power. Though you are right that any Phoenix Force user should just have "All powers to a far higher degree, plus all of the Powers of the Phoenix Force (2-A, Low 1-C)"

 

[Eficiente]

Yes. Although I don't buy myself how they're all 2-A to Low 1-C when possessed by the Phoenix, why would their tier remain that consistent when the powers they gain isn't? Like how the cosmic awareness Hyperion gained isn't something other hosts of the Phoenix showed, or the same with the precog Wolverine had, and everyone is drove mad/loses control over Phoenix in very different ways.

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

Fair point, though does that mean we need to revise the majority of Phoenix Force keys in Marvel then? Not sure where their tier would be to be honest.

 

[Eficiente]

I belive they should each at put as far as what each shows by their own feats in their own stories.

 

[Comicgyal]

Not all Phoenix force users gain the same hax, but their powers are largely the same. For example white Phoenix Jean grey would have all the hax and tiers as the Phoenix that have been displayed ever. But someone like Illyana would only have the basic Phoenix hax, and the hax shes shown.

 

[Comicgyal]

Here’s some other hax I’ve found.

Precognition

Either clairvoyance/future sight.

Two examples of BFR

Phoenix used time stop here.

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

Found other feats to add.

Transmutation
Scaling from Jean Grey, who can turn a plant into crystal and turns Colossus back to human form and a tree into gold (Uncanny X-Men #135-136)

Empathic Manipulation
Scaling from Jean Grey, who grew out the natural courage within her sister Sara (Bizarre Adventures #27) and calmed down Darco with assistance from Nina (Astonishing X-Men Vol 2 #1)

 

[Eficiente]

Precognition

I think it just created that on its own to give an idea of what it can do.

Either clairvoyance/future sight.

I already agreed to this as precog I think.

Two examples of BFR

Yes.

Phoenix used time stop here.

I already agreed to this one.

The new ones need scans and for future referance Imgur should be used.

Transmutation
Scaling from Jean Grey, who can turn a plant into crystal and turns Colossus back to human form and a tree into gold (Uncanny X-Men #135-136)

Yes.

Empathic Manipulation
Scaling from Jean Grey, who grew out the natural courage within her sister Sara (Bizarre Adventures #27) and calmed down Darco with assistance from Nina (Astonishing X-Men Vol 2 #1)

Yes, and I guess there're no JoJo references in the first series?

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

Bump

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

Last feats I can find promise

More definitive Age Manipulation
Scaling from Necrom, who can drain away a person's life force and make them rapidly age in moments (Excalibur Vol 1 #49)

Energy Manipulation and Absorption, as well as Statistics Amplification through Life Manipulation
Scaling from Jean Grey, who when amped by the Phoenix, can generate any energy in endless amounts, absorb it from places such as a supernova or even transform herself into energy and change back. The Phoenix can also absorb the life-force of others to bolster its own.

 

[Eficiente]

Yes for the first, may...other users see over the second, sorry. I'm somewhat busy to read that.

We should really get to adding the powers.

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

Okay these are the accepted powers:

Madness Manipulation (Type 2 and 3):
The mere sight of it could leave a mere mortal blinded and maddened, which pales in comparison to the actual touch of its flames. (Mighty Thor Vol 2 #18)

Resistance to Forced Summoning
States that it cannot be summoned by force and can choose whether or not to appear. (Mighty Thor Vol 2 #19)

Illusion Creation and Perception Manipulation
Trapped Charles Xavier in an illusion when he probed Rachel's mind. He noted that a small percentage of that power could have been used to destroy him. He learned that he was trapped in that illusion for 10 hours. (Excalibur #52)

Memory Manipulation
Phoenix causes Jean to have a vision of her becoming Dark Phoenix and killing both the X-Men and Fantastic Four with her newfound power. Once Jean snaps out of it, she can't recall the details of what she saw, nor could either Moira McTaggert or Charles Xavier find any hint of what happened beyond Jeans vague feeling of it being dreamlike. (X-Men: Hidden Years #8, 9, 10)

Resistance to Extrasensory Perception
Phoenix blocks Rachel Summers from Roma's perceptions. (Excalibur Vol 1 #50)

Invisibility
The Phoenix conceals it Egg to be completely invisible to all of the X-Men and compels them to leave with its powers. Only Illyana's intuition and power uncovers the Egg. (Phoenix Resurrection: Return of Jean Grey #3)

Time Stop
Phoenix Force freezes time around Jean as it speaks to her. (Fantastic Four Vol 1 #286)

Time Travel
After sending a portion of itself to Jean at the bottom of Jamaica Bay, it follows Rachel's Astral Form to her alternate future. (Excalibur #52)

Immortality (Type 4)
The Phoenix Force can go into the White Hot Room anytime it dies so it can resurrect itself. (X-Men Phoenix: Endsong #1) (What If? Rise and Fall of the Shi'ar Empire)


Matter Manipulation (subatomic level)
Scaling from the Phoenix Gun, a planet destroying gun with a bullet with the flames of the Phoenix in it, which can kill the person who fired it by ripping them apart at the subatomic level. (Astonishing Spider-Man & Wolverine #2)

Possession and Corruption (Type 1)
The Phoenix Force is known to possess Hosts and imbue them with its power, however this can corrupt them and cause them to go on a rampage.

Precognition
Scaling from Wolverine, who foresees the future of a planet destined to explode and scatter its diamond across the cosmos. (Astonishing Spider-Man & Wolverine #5) and after travelling to the past, received a vision of the fate of Peter Parker's/Spider-Man's Uncle Ben (Astonishing Spider-Man & Wolverine #4).

Cosmic Awareness and Enhanced Senses
Scaling from Fongji Wu, a previous Iron Fist, who the Phoenix grants awareness about the cosmos (New Avengers Vol 2 #27) and Hyperion, whose cosmic awareness was overwhelming him with the sheer sounds and sensations (Avengers Vol 8 #41).

Biological Manipulation
Scales from Celeste, who layers her zombified-sisters dead bones with fresh cells, rather than the rotting flesh they used to have. (X-Men Phoenix: Warsong #4)

Transmutation
Scaling from Jean Grey, who can turn a plant into crystal and turns Colossus back to human form and a tree into gold (Uncanny X-Men #135-136)

Empathic Manipulation
Scaling from Jean Grey, who grew out the natural courage within her sister Sara (Bizarre Adventures #27) and calmed down Darco with assistance from Nina (Astonishing X-Men Vol 2 #1)

Age Manipulation
Scaling from Necrom, who can drain away a person's life force and make them rapidly age in moments (Excalibur Vol 1 #49)

BFR: The Phoenix can teleport others to different points in time or to another galaxy (Excalibur Vol 1 #64 and Excalibur #52)

Is that it?

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

Bump

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

Bump

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

Bump

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

Bump

 

[Antvasima]

What Eficiente has accepted can probably be applied.

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

Can someone unlock the profile so I can add it then please?

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

I'll add it tomorrow since it's late where I'm from and I'm heading to bed. You can unlock it then or someone else can add it if they wish.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Tell me here when you are done.

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

Ran into a problem, it keeps saying something about slur words, but I don't know what it is.

 

[Antvasima]

I will check.

 

[Antvasima]

The current page is possible for me to edit, so it is likely that you are trying to insert a link to a scan that contains an accidental slur word in the URL. Please check through all of them, and upload the scan that contained the word to Imgur again, so it auto-generates another URL.

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

Okay got it, finished the edits.

 

[Antvasima]

I checked our slur filter, and it is the link after Precognition that causes problems.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay got it, finished the edits.

Thank you. I appreciate that you are helping out.

Should I close this thread then?

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

Sure you can close the thread now.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I will do so.