- 15,998
- 6,001
Round 2, lot to cover, let’s just get started.
• The Omnipotent Orb should possess Law Manipulation, and grant Law-based Invulnerability.
This is based on the description of the item in Persona Q2, where the Orb is stated to nullify all damage through bending the laws of the universe. In turn, Almighty skills would thus bypass Law-based defenses via bypassing the effects of the Orb.
• The Omnipotent Orb should possess Law Manipulation, and grant Law-based Invulnerability.
This is based on the description of the item in Persona Q2, where the Orb is stated to nullify all damage through bending the laws of the universe. In turn, Almighty skills would thus bypass Law-based defenses via bypassing the effects of the Orb.
- All Personas possess Telekinesis.
As demonstrated several times during the battle with Ameno-Sagiri in Persona 4: The Animation, such as when Isis lifted debris off of Yu, when Susano'o pulled pieces out of Ameno-Sagiri to rescue Yu from being absorbed, and when Lucifer crushed Ameno-Sagiri by clenching its fist - All offensive magic in Persona is highly-malleable, capable of manifesting as the user desires, only limited by power and imagination.
Examples of this are shown in both the various anime as well as the Arena games, which showcase feats of:- Characters being able to manifest their elements in unique, complex ways, with practically zero effort. Persona-users can attack with a thought and have their attacks manifesting instantly in any way they desire. For example, despite "Ma-" spells merely denoting an increase in AOE and/or range, Mitsuru can use Mabufudyne to manifest projectiles that hover over her shoulder, fire at her will, and freeze targets on contact compared to Akihiko's use of Maziodyne, which instantly creates a wide AOE of violently arching lightning. Also compare Akihiko's Maziodyne to Elizabeth's, which is more akin to a faster and shorter version of Yu Narukami's Ziodyne, and again, compare Mitsuru's Mabufudyne to Elizabeth's, which simultaneously fires multiple small shards of ice. Even Chie, a non-magic specialist, can casually shape her water/ice into an intricate rising dragon with a thought.
- Breath Attack. As shown in P5 Scramble, where Yusuke can manifest his ice spells as ice breath from Goemon's mouth.
- Danmaku. As shown with Yu Narukami’s awakening in the P4G anime, where he casually creates thousands of projectiles with one spell to annihilate an uncountably large number of Shadows.
- Elemental Aura. As used by several characters in the Arena games, such as Aigis, Akihiko on multiple occasions, Yukiko, Yosuke, and many others.
- Limited Weather Manipulation. As shown by Kanji, who like Chie is a non-magic specialist, yet manages to summon a thunderstorm to assist in one of his strongest attacks as if it was normal.
- All Personas with "Null" skills or affinities warrant Invulnerability.
This is due to the fact that Resistance is already covered by "Resist" skills and affinities, as well as the fact that said "Null" abilities work equally well regardless of the power difference between attacker and defender; such as when the vastly more powerful Nyx had its attacks nullified by Makoto Yuki, despite the latter having been consistently one-shot with mindless ease mere seconds earlier. There is also a clear, in-game distinction between attacks that are resisted, and those that are flat-out nullified. Attacks that are resisted to the highest order are always shown to still inflict damage, even if negligible, while attacks that are nullified do not inflict damage, and are shown to not affect the target whatsoever, thus side-stepping Attack Potency completely. As both Repel and Drain affinities both scale to the same extents as this Invulnerability, it should be noted that they also ignore AP in the same way. While it is impossible by the wiki's standards to say they work regardless of the character's current tier, due to the way they work, it should at least be noted that these defensive hax are capable of working on attacks vastly more powerful than the user, at least up to a one-shot. - All Persona-users naturally receive their equipped Persona's stats, skills, resistances and to a lesser extent, knowledge, in a separate form of Empowerment than the one derived from willpower.
As stated by Tatsuya, Persona-users obtain the abilities inherent to the figure their Persona is based upon. These skills and abilities can be inferred from their referenced backgrounds as well as their Compendium entries, as Tatsuya attributes his ability to control fire on Apollo's own ability to do so from its background as a god of the sun. It should be noted that this is not to say that we can derive abilities directly from real-life mythologies, and similarly, assume that these abilities are available to the same extent as those derived from in-game-acknowledged backgrounds. - All Persona-users inherently resist Madness Manipulation.
It is stated by Zula that if it were not for the fact that the Persona 2 Eternal Punishment cast were Persona-users, they would have lost all semblance of sanity simply by making contact and looking upon Cthulhu's form. Tatsuya also states that if he hadn't been awakened to his Persona, he would've been driven to madness simply by looking at Byakhee. - All Rulers of Power possess Transmutation and Sealing via the Persona Compendium.
As demonstrated in the Persona 4 Arena games, in which Elizabeth transmutes a target into energy by touch, seals them into the Compendium, and ejects them after inflicting a Status Effect based on the Arcana of the card they are turned into. - Ren Amamiya possesses passive Fate Manipulation and Resistance to Fate Manipulation.
This is through Ren being the Trickster, which is a being that defies Fate in the Persona multiverse, and is implied to be the only one capable of doing so. If acausal deities are accepted, it should also be noted that Fate is stated to bind even the gods, which would then be established Type 4 Acausals, yet the Trickster is able to effortlessly defy it merely by existing and acting as he pleases. - All Wild Cards should possess Clairvoyance with Labyrinth Navigation Skills from Persona Q2.
Several passive Navigation skills in Persona Q2 allow their users to sense specific elements of their surroundings within a certain range, such as hidden passages, treasure caches and powerful enemies. - All Palace Rulers have passive Memory Manipulation.
This is because simply existing within a Palace caused Shadows brought in from the Collective Unconscious to be influenced by the Ruler's cognitions, overwriting their original memories and making them believe that they had always been what they've been distorted into. This is seen with Kamoshida's knights considering him King (and other Palace Shadows in their respective Palaces being twisted similarly), despite remembering their true origins as a being from the Collective Unconscious once brought over to Joker's side as a Persona. - All Phantom Thieves should have Minor Subjective Realityvia their Cognitions.
This is due to theirs and others' cognitions unconsciously affecting the functionality of their equipment and granting them abilities based on their beliefs. For example, granting Ryuji Non-Physical Interaction to tackle Shadows due to his belief that they were normal humans in costume, granting the Phantom Thieves effectively unlimited ammunition, due to their enemies' belief that "a gun that's pointed at them should logically be loaded", granting Haru the ability to have her grenade launcher function like a rocket launcher, and many other instances. - All the Phantom Thieves should possess a resistance to both the distortions and the effects caused by Cognition.
This is due to their willpower, manifested as their Phantom Thief outfits, being directly referred to as serving the purpose of protecting them from such effects. - Yaldabaoth’s Existence Erasure includes erasure of mind, body, soul, information, concept and history.
It affects mind, body, soul, information and (if accepted) type 2 concepts due to those being inherently part of a Shadow/Persona's being.
It affects type 4 concepts due to erasing the targets from Cognition (the Collective Unconscious), which turns the collective perceptions of humanity into concepts which define reality. - Some characters are stronger than before and/or receive new abilities in Persona 5 The Royal.
They are as follows:- Ichiryusai Madarame should have Duplication as shown in his boss fight, where he duplicates himself constantly.
- Junya Kaneshiro should be notably tougher, being able to take significantly more damage than before. He should also have Sleep Manipulation (via Lullaby), Statistics Amplification (with Kill Reward Up), and Danmaku (via Make It Rain).
- Futaba Sakura should have Explosion Manipulation due to being able to create and drop bombs, Attack Reflectiondue to Final Guard being able to create reflecting forcefields.
- Masayoshi Shido should have Forcefield Creation due to being able to make a barrier strong enough to keep out the other Phantom Thieves.
- Ren receives the following abilities from his new Confidant abilities:
- Statistics Amplification with Flow from Maruki's Confidant, which increases the power of all of Ren's attacks by 250% for as long as he is in the flow state.
- Information Analysis with Sleuthing Mastery from Akechi's Confidant, which allows Ren to instantly deduce the affinities of a single opponent at the start of battle.
- Purification with Detox from Maruki's Confidant, which automatically cures Ren when he is inflicted with a status ailment.
- Mental Restoration with Wakefulness from Maruki's Confidant, which greatly restores Ren's mental stamina should he be low on it.
- All the False End-Game Phantom Thieves should possess High-Godly Regeneration, via returning from Yaldabaoth’s Existence Erasure.
As shown in-game, both death and existence erasure lead to the Phantom Thieves waking up in the Velvet Room, which exists outside of reality. From there, they can reclaim their existence simply by exiting the Velvet Room. - The skills “Agneyastra” and “Gigantomachia” should be considered Earth Manipulation.
This is due to the former summoning meteors and the latter being a powerful earthquake, despite both being considered physical attacks in-game. - The skill “Vorpal Blade” grants Durability Negation via cutting through space.
This is revealed by its original Japanese name, which is "空間殺法" (Kūkan sappō), which literally translates to “Spatial Killing Method”.
The reason why this is not represented in gameplay is because Persona-users, Personas and Shadows inherently resist Spatial Manipulation, which would protect them from the durability negating effects of the attack. - All Ice-attribute spells comparable or superior to Bufula are of Absolute Zero or lower temperatures.
This is due to the Persona 2 Ice-attribute skill, named "絶対零度" (i.e. Absolute Zero), being of equal potency to Bufula. - All physical multi-hit moves that involve direct attacks performed by the Persona or Persona-user are to be considered speed amps, taking the low-end in multipliers.
This is displayed most clearly in Persona 5 Scramble, where Yoshitsune very clearly speeds up massively to perform Hassou Tobi, and when Yusuke performs what looks to be Myriad Slashes. This includes moves such as the aforementioned, but excludes moves such as Agneyastra, which hits multiple times for non-speed-related reasons. - All afflictions such as Instant Death and Ailments being chance-based are Game Mechanics.
All Fire, Ice and Electricity-based spells always inflict Burn, Freeze and Shock respectively, and Ailments are always inflicted unless resisted, as it is only logical for fire to always cause burns, ice to always freeze, and electricity to always induce paralysis, unless specifically resisted. This is shown in Yusuke's awakening cutscene, where despite being a first-time Persona-user, he is capable of flash-freezing every Shadow struck by his wave of ice. This is further proven by the fact that a Resistance to Bless or Curse spells lowers the chances of Bless or Curse-based instant death effects, respectively, being inflicted upon the user. As such, all Persona-users and major bosses should have a resistance to the Ailments that can be inflicted in their respective games. - The skills “Counter”, “Counterstrike” and “High Counter”, like all other chance-based effects, are not actually chance-based, and are instead a form of magical parry.
This is shown by Chie in Persona 4 Arena, who can activate “High Counter” at will.- All abilities inherent to Personas, Shadows and Deities are forms of Conceptual Manipulation.
The Collective Unconscious is referred to as a plane of information, despite also being stated to have been created from the psyche of sentient beings, and being composed of basic Jungian archetypes, which are defined as "a collectively inherited unconscious idea, pattern of thought, image,etc., universally present in individual psyches" (i.e. Type 4 concepts). This is further supported by the Collective Unconscious being the source and birthplace of Deities, which are abstract concepts personified.
Additionally, as displayed most clearly in Persona 5, conscious and unconscious human perceptions shape reality just as much as they do the Collective Unconscious, with human perceptions (Type 4 concepts) affecting and changing reality (Type 2 concepts).
With this in mind, it is clear that the "information" that the Collective Unconscious is made of refers to the archetypal concepts of the verse. As such, Personas, which are partially composed of information in the same way that Shadows and Deities are, are equated to being partially composed of archetypal concepts. This also lines up with how Personas are merely different aspects of the human mind, which as we've established, is conceptual in nature. Thus, affecting Personas, Shadows and Deities with attacks and ailments, and similarly, defending from such attacks and ailments, would naturally involve forms of, and resistances to Conceptual Manipulation. - All attacks performed by or through Personas, Shadows or Deities affect the Mind, Soul, Information and Concept of their targets, in addition to affecting the physical body.
This is due to all attacks by default affecting the physiologies of Shadows, which are mental and spiritual constructs formed from the plane of information that is composed of Jungian archetypal concepts known as the Collective Unconscious.
It cannot be argued that the user of these attacks must specifically target specific aspects of a Shadow's physiology, as nearly all Persona-users are completely unaware of the true nature of said physiology, and thus wouldn't know to target specific aspects of it. Furthermore, as displayed in Persona 3's Full Moon battle with the Arcana Chariot and Justice, when a Shadow possesses a physical object, Persona-users' attacks affect both the object as well as the Shadow that's possessing it, despite said Shadow serving the equivalent role of a soul existing within a physical human body.
It also cannot be argued that possessing a physical form transforms that physical form into becoming one with the Shadow, as all known cases of possession in the verse, be it rogue Personas taking control of their users, or Shadows becoming the dominant consciousness in a human body, does not change the nature of the possessed body. - All Deities and Rulers of Power possess Cosmic Awareness and Dimensional Travel on a Low Multiversal .
Deities should be capable of the same level of awareness and travel as the Rulers of Power, which are capable of sensing and directly monitoring their respective Wild Cards from the Velvet Room, which exists outside of reality and is linked to the Collective Unconscious, as well as traversing and viewing the worlds within and connected to it.- All Persona-users' Empowerment via willpower extends to the point of Reactive Evolution in the face of desperate situations.
This is based on Margaret's statements in Persona Q, regarding Persona-users awakening to immense power when faced with death. These statements, in conjunction with the previously established Empowerment via Willpower, result in the conclusion that sufficient willpower (in Margaret's case, the will to live) can reach the point of causing evolutions in Persona-users. However, due to the vagueness of what specific abilities would be gained through these evolutions, besides awakening to one's Ultimate Persona, this is functionally closer to Reactive Power Level.- While the limits of this Empowerment is unknown, it should be noted that it is potent enough such that simply remembering and resonating with his bonds granted Yu Narukami the strength to vastly overwhelm Elizabeth with his sheer presence alone, despite the latter being strong enough to stomp characters superior to Yu. Elizabeth also stated within her mind that, in his empowered state, the difference in strength between Yu and herself was greater than any she had ever felt beforehand.
- It should also be noted that the above power boost is yet inferior to the amount of strength attained by evolving one's Persona. This is displayed in Persona 4: The Animation, where Susano'o was powerful enough to casually knock around Ameno-Sagiri, despite the latter having effortlessly one-shot the collective strength of the Investigation Team, as well as tank their full combined strength with dismissive ease.
- A common ability that can be easily obtained by more or less any experienced Persona-user through this Empowerment is the ability to grant themselves the effects of the skill "Endure".
- All Deities in the Collective Unconscious possess Acausality (Type 4).
Despite having been created by humanity's cognition (which only came to be after lifeforms obtained sentience after Nyx's arrival on Earth), Deities in the Collective Unconscious have existed since long before Nyx's arrival, due to the cognitions that birthed them (myths and religions) having specified creation myths and timelines of events for their respective belief systems; retroactively changing history, with the effects extending past the point where the power that birthed them had yet to exist. While this may normally grant Type 5, as specified on the scan above, Deities are explicitly still vulnerable to the end of their existences should humanity lose their beliefs in the concepts they represent. - All of the Phantom Thieves are able to summon their items and equipment from a shared inventory.
This is to explain how they pull out their items and equipment out of seemingly nowhere from an unspecified but acknowledged storage, such as when Morgana pulls out a bouquet of flowers containing Ann's SMGs, Ren pulls out his equipment despite clearly having nothing on him (his suit is explained as his manifested will of rebellion, but his equipment is not part of this manifestation beyond his initial awakening, not to mention the fact that he obtains the same equipment he last had equipped, as opposed to a new set formed from his willpower), Morgana having crafting materials on his person despite being a cat with no bags or pockets, Ryuji and Yusuke pulling out their guns from seemingly nowhere, along with a grenade from Ryuji, despite having none of said items mere seconds beforehand and Ryuji pulling a soda (a known SP restorative item) out of nowhere to offer to Makoto. - Abilities possessed by Shadow/Boss-variants of Personas should be normally usable.
A Persona can use skills from its Shadow/Boss variant, however it should be clear that the affinities, resistances, and weakness are to be taken from the Persona variant, as they are the most consistent. This is the case unless contradicted by other statements on a case-by-case basis, such as Rise’s Himiko lacking the offensive capabilities of Shadow Rise in Persona 4.
This is also supported by precedent cases of Personas possessing abilities that are not represented in normal gameplay, be it through gameplay-story segregation (such as the case of support Personas' sensory abilities or the above mentioned Telekinetic abilities), differences in gameplay between mainline and spin-off games (as evidenced by Persona Q versions of characters possessing skills that are not present in the mainline games, despite directly having come from the mainline games and developing their powers in the same ways; further proven by Ryuji using All Guard against Berserk Cendrillon's Vorpal Blade), and/or retcons (such as in the case of Makoto Yuki's Thanatos possessing the skill "Door of Hades" in most entries featuring him post-Persona 3, and Persona 4 Arena characters having skills that weren't part of their original skillsets, such as "Kill Rush" for Akihiko and "Cross Slash" for Yu).
- All Persona-users' Empowerment via willpower extends to the point of Reactive Evolution in the face of desperate situations.
- All abilities inherent to Personas, Shadows and Deities are forms of Conceptual Manipulation.
