Persona 5 DOWNGRADES!

[Thiag125]

Well, that's the problem. Okumura DOESN'T attack, so there is no real way to know if his Palace feat scales or not. But imo it should not scale because we have a lack of evidence regarding his shadow.

 

[Edwellken]

I thought the Futaba stuff was waiting for the calc.

Idk about Okumura. He does pepper the group with debuffs/ailments, but he doesn't use any offensive spells during the battle.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Yeah, Okumura doesn't scale, which is why we're using Morning Star, which is more clear.

I'm still arguing against 4-C scaling from Futaba as it comes from creation of weapons that Futaba doesn't use herself, lacks strong enough evidence to scale to her palace creation, and is a physical attack, which we explicitly agreed don't automatically scale. Even then it's a massive outlier for that point in the game, even when you take previous games into consideration.

 

[Thiag125]

Eeeh, Futaba doesn't really matter though. I don't even know why we're evaluating her. She's literally a full support type. We should focus on her actual abilities, even more so when the Thieves fought a cognition of Wakaba, and not Futaba's shadow.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

That's what I've been saying, yeah.

 

[Edwellken]

Her being a support character is irrelevant seeing as she's the one with the feat. The rest of the group should logically scale upwards from her even without the whole ballista thing imo, but the ballista stuff is there. Tier 4 isn't an outlier when it's incredibly consistent if you take the verse as a whole, and Morningstar, even as an endgame skill, shows that P5 should already be encroaching on similar levels by Futaba's palace.

But I feel like we'd just keep going in circles around this, so I'm down for whatever the majority agrees on I guess.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

They wouldn't "logically upscale" if she can't use her creation energy to attack. There needs to be some scaling to begin with before you can assume that.

"Incredibly Consistent" is a pretty big overstatement considering Morningstar is the only other feat, and it's endgame.

I'd leave it to the majority as well. Honestly I don't see many people agreeing with me, but I won't throw a fit if that's the case.

 

[Edwellken]

Well the thing is, they're obviously stronger than Futaba, and unlike her they actually ca use energy attacks. As Sera explained earlier, Palaces are = to Personas so the energy source should translate there.

I meant consistent when taking Persona users of past games into account, but fair point anyway. I'm just saying there's a bit of precedence for them to be reaching this level, and Morning Star shows that they aren't shying away from it in this particular installment either.

But yeah, I'll stand by what I said earlier and stop arguing about it. I won't throw a fit either if the majority ends up agreeing with you.

 

[Thiag125]

Well, I mean, P4 Persona users aren't that strong compared to the rest of the franchise's Persona users.

And Ren didn't need no World Arcana Persona to beat God, unlike prissy Yu Narukami

 

[Jesterofgames]

Also question wasn't 2-C yalda/satanael brought up and shotdown before?

I just bring it up since it seems to be being agreed upon here.

 

[John985]

@Thiag
If you read the thread, I already ask if they're the weakest.

 

[Sera_EX]

Persona 4 is not the weakest. I'll be doing a Persona 3/4 revision right after this one. You'll see where they stand.

 

[Thiag125]

So what Persona game has the weakest cast?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Persona 6

 

[Thiag125]

I hope Persona 6 releases with the cast having the best feats in the entire series just so this joke gets destroyed.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Persona 1 or 4 are the weakest.

 

[Sera_EX]

Let's focus on the task at hand, please?

 

[Thiag125]

So will the change in Ren's profile occur?

 

[Sera_EX]

We're still working.

 

[Soul-of-Landale]

Hey, remember how the shadows' palaces collapse within minutes at most when they're defeated

kind of undermines the whole "wank" thing

 

[JBennett]

well the collapseing is cause when the individual no longer has a distorted disier which happens when the "Tressure" is stolen rather then some destructive feat.

 

[AllanShadow78]

my god its still going on. popcorn time