Peppino VS Kris: Field of Sausage and Meatballs

[Therefir]

Though I have a question, why is Peppino only 8-C with Rage Power? Shouldn't he be 8-C with Transformations given that they are upscaling above the 9-A+ feat? It's not enough?

That would still only make him baseline 8-C with Transformations, but it would be more accurate, since his profile currently implies he only reaches 8-C with Rage Power.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Though I have a question, why is Peppino only 8-C with Rage Power? Shouldn't he be 8-C with Transformations given that they are upscaling above the 9-A+ feat? It's not enough?

He should indeed, but doing so would require a CRT, so I'mma do it when I finish all the bosses reworks

 

[MinecraftHater2011]

Also, I never see anyone use Kris's own SI for some reason, even though Kris can convince the Darkners to stop fighting with seemingly just a few words or random actions.

I think it's mostly because in this state, Peppino's angered to the point where it'd probably be hard to calm him down even with SI.

Kris can aim-dodge massive attacks that cover parts of screen in an instant, can't be any faster than that.

Well in that clip Kris was able to at least see them coming and aim dodge them. Here, they're gonna have to be dodging attacks and grabs that can rapidly change to 3 meters in length all without prior knowledge.

I say this as a way to keep Peppino away if he were to ever grab Kris with giant hands, restraining them won't stop them from using Big Shots, as these are fired from the Soul inside their body.

Would they be able to use their Big Shots while being mercilessly pummeled though?

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Following.

 

[MinecraftHater2011]

And I just realized Peppino has access to Satan's Choice in this MU, which would let him be able to passively burn Kris if they're close enough to him. The transformation should actually be able to deal a lot of damage too, considering it was able to make Peppino hot enough to emit firey fumes even when the level itself was cold enough to freeze working fireplaces.

 

[Therefir]

I think it's mostly because in this state, Peppino's angered to the point where it'd probably be hard to calm him down even with SI.

Powers like Pirouette and Hypnosis are supernatural and actual EM, it should be able to take him out of his anger, greatly weakening him as a result.

Well in that clip Kris was able to at least see them coming and aim dodge them. Here, they're gonna have to be dodging attacks and grabs that can rapidly change to 3 meters in length all without prior knowledge.

I still don't think they are bigger or even faster than some of the attacks Kris has dodged, also I would like clarification about the Mach speed affecting only his movement speed.

Would they be able to use their Big Shots while being mercilessly pummeled though?

Kris is mostly unaffected by enemy attacks, not showing signs of pain, like their companions do.

 

[Therefir]

Also, I just found a massive hole in these arguments, in vs battles with the speed equalized, the combat speed of the faster character is lowered to that of the slower character, which means Peppino's Massively Hypersonic+ combat speed becomes Supersonic, the same as Kris, Imao, there was no speed advantage in the first place.

And the same applies to his movement speed with Mach 2 and 3, it means Peppino is forced to use Mach 3 to even chase Kris around.

 

[Therefir]

And I just realized Peppino has access to Satan's Choice in this MU, which would let him be able to passively burn Kris if they're close enough to him. The transformation should actually be able to deal a lot of damage too, considering it was able to make Peppino hot enough to emit firey fumes even when the level itself was cold enough to freeze working fireplaces.

Kris can endure being deeply submerged in acid, and taking attacks don't stop him from firing Big Shots, so no, attacking Kris won't stop them from using Yellow Mode.

Kris is also resistant to freezing temperatures so cold they can instantly freeze enemies solid.

 

[MinecraftHater2011]

Powers like Pirouette and Hypnosis are supernatural and actual EM, it should be able to take him out of his anger, greatly weakening him as a result.

Yes, but both of those powers also require TP to use, meaning that Kris'll have to also get close to some of Peppino's attack to gain some TP.

also I would like clarification about the Mach speed affecting only his movement speed.

The Mach Run's pretty much just a faster run Peppino can use. It may be worth noting that Peppino can actually still attack while using the Mach Run via headbutts and such.

Also, I just found a massive hole in these arguments, in vs battles with the speed equalized, the combat speed of the faster character is lowered to that of the slower character, which means Peppino's Massively Hypersonic+ combat speed becomes Supersonic, the same as Kris, Imao.

And the same applies to his movement speed with Mach 2 and 3.

To quote the speed equalization rules, "The combat speed of that faster character is assumed to be equalized to the combat speed of the slower character. Every other speed the faster character has is reduced by the same multiplier. This includes the speed of any attacks, projectiles, reactions, perception, flight etc. "

So Peppino's reaction speed should still be 3x faster than Kris' (and Peppino's combat speed), and his Mach Run should still be 4x faster than Kris' movement speed.

Kris is also resistant to freezing temperatures so cold they can instantly freeze enemies solid.

Yeah, but can they endure fire that's hot enough to withstand cold temperatures able to freeze other fires in their place? That was kind of the point I was trying to make with Satan's Choice: it's a bit hot.

 

[Therefir]

Yes, but both of those powers also require TP to use, meaning that Kris'll have to also get close to some of Peppino's attack to gain some TP.

No issue, Kris can use a TP Gem and instantly get enough TP for both powers.

So Peppino's reaction speed should still be 3x faster than Kris' (and Peppino's combat speed), and his Mach Run should still be 4x faster than Kris' movement speed.

Except the calc is literally comparing the speed of Peppino's arm with the lightning, which is combat speed, his movement speed is what gave the MHS result.

Yeah, but can they endure fire that's hot enough to withstand cold temperatures able to freeze other fires in their place? That was kind of the point I was trying to make with Satan's Choice: it's a bit hot.

They can endure whatever burns the acid causes on their body, they should be fine.

 

[MinecraftHater2011]

No issue, Kris can use a TP Gem and instantly get enough TP for both powers.

They wouldn't be able to use said TP Gem if their inventory's filled up with 48 swords though.

Except the calc is literally comparing the speed of Peppino's arm with the lightning, which is combat speed, his movement speed is what gave the MHS result.

Yeah, I was actually wondering about that as well a little, and reading through the MHS upgrade thread I think it's because the parry's only a single-action move, as opposed to multiple moves which would grant combat speed?

They can endure whatever burns acid causes to their body, they should be fine.

Considering the Cyber World, the acid could just be regular battery acid for all we know. And if it's just straight-up regular acid (which I doubt a little due to attacks in Deltarune being magical iirc), I'd still say the super fire or whatever is a bit more potent due to it being far more hotter than your typical fire.

 

[Therefir]

They wouldn't be able to use said TP Gem if their inventory's filled up with 48 swords though.

The inventory for armors and weapons, and the inventory for consumables items are entirely different, Kris can only carry 12 consumable items at a time, with Ralsei making a distinction of it.

Yeah, I was actually wondering about that as well a little, and reading through the MHS upgrade thread I think it's because the parry's only a single-action move, as opposed to multiple moves which would grant combat speed?

Look, an uppercut is not even the fastest kind of a punch a human can throw, and not even close to the fastest attack a human can deliver, if Peppino can uppercut lightning at MHS+ speeds, any basic punch or attack should also naturally scale from it, because that's just basic logic works (also doesn't take the fact that the MHS calc is still only for movement speed, his arm speed is only calculated through the uppercut).

And if it's just straight-up regular acid (which I doubt a little due to attacks in Deltarune being magical iirc)

Even if it's magic, we accept for both Undertale and Deltarune that magic emulates the effects of the real thing they are based on, which is why Undertale is MHS+, if Deltarune had a dodgeable lightning attack, it would also be MHS+, but alas, that hasn't happened yet.

About the strength of the acid itself, Queen claims it can shrink Darkners to the point they would fit inside those small houses, so I would say it's certainly stronger than normal acid.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Can Kris resist the Shockwave Creation?

 

[Therefir]

Can Kris resist the Shockwave Creation?

Peppino's shockwaves are only of force, nothing to do with the internal shockwaves that Whitebeard or Garou can deliver.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Yes I'm well aware, however they do stun/paralyse the enemies when he uses them.

 

[Therefir]

Yes I'm well aware, however they do stun/paralyse the enemies when he uses them.

I don't know if that's really supernatural, if an enemy stronger than me launched me into the air with pure force, I would probably be stunned too.

Just like how a punch can stun a person.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Well what ever.
What can he do about parries and super taunts?

 

[Therefir]

A Lightner's attack appears right on top of the enemy's body, it doesn't travel any distance, making it invisible, and Kris is so precise at attacking that they can shave someone, which means they can target any point on the body, and even moving around at great speeds doesn't help avoiding it.

If Peppino parries with uppercuts, it's not gonna work, not to mention he needs to be ready for that, but how can you be ready for attack like that?

Just being farther away from Peppino should be able to avoid his taunts, at least I don't see they having anything special other than Peppino growing bigger.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Honestly I don't see how that appears right on top of him it's just a slash flying at him.

 

[Therefir]

Honestly I don't see how that appears right on top of him it's just a slash flying at him.

Just took at this, a slash appearing right on top of the stubble.

And the Lightners having this massive range with melee attacks is actually canon.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

He can still parry things even if they're right next to his face but I suppose that's a good point

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Look, an uppercut is not even the fastest kind of a punch a human can throw, and not even close to the fastest attack a human can deliver, if Peppino can uppercut lightning at MHS+ speeds, any basic punch or attack should also naturally scale from it, because that's just basic logic works (also doesn't take the fact that the MHS calc is still only for movement speed, his arm speed is only calculated through the uppercut).

"Reaction speed is the speed at which a character can react to an event or action. This usually only grants a short movement upon reaction, whereas several movements at the same speed switch it to combat speed"
The uppercut is the result of a short burst Peppino gets whenever he parries an attack which lets him move at speeds faster than the the rest of his moveset,
This is shown in the boss fights where your parry lets you move even faster than Fake Peppino's Mach Run
Plus, numerous profiles list "deflects something" as reaction speed (Hank J. Wimbleton and Contessa)

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Pretty sure what makes it so fast is that his arm is already high when the animation starts

 

[Therefir]

Nah, I'm not buying this, not only Peppino can perform multiple parries in a short period of time as shown here, the animation itself isn't any faster than that of his other attacks.

The parry being short burst is just headcanon, and people could have just easily gotten the same speed by using other attack animations and comparing it to the lightning, Imao.

 

[Therefir]

Pretty sure what makes it so fast is that his arm is already high when the animation starts

Nor really, they just compared the movement of the arm right before the uppercut.

And the arm being high would have diminished the results, since it needs to travel a greater distance than the lightning to actually get a faster speed.

Most of his attacks perform a large displacement due to the framerate of the game, displacements greater and faster than the MHS+ uppercut.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Good Point, I think I can pick up one of the Cheeseslimes and compare Peppino's punch to the clouds, probably isn't too hard

 

[DaMonkeMan]

I'm pretty sure there's times where he could parry multiple lightning bolts from wizards in Gnome Forest and CTOP, though the former would kind of be using Gustavo and Brick's scaling and comparing it to his, as they're the only playable character when you get to that part.
Nonetheless, they do seem to have almost the exact same stats and some of the same abilities, so it isn't bizarre to use their parries to scale Peppino's parries as they're basically the same mechanic in game.

 

[Therefir]

Good Point, I think I can pick up one of the Cheeseslimes and compare Peppino's punch to the clouds, probably isn't too hard

I made a rough calc for it, could serve you as a guide.

This calc assumes punches travel in a straight line, reducing the result it should actually give, so I don't recommend that method.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Pizza Tower: Peppino's uppercut puts lightning to shame

vsbattles.fandom.com

Did it but changed the lightning per frame speed since what Strym calced was when the lightning striked Peppino, not actually the distance it crosses in a frame
Also added a video showing the feat,


Gotta say tho, no clue how we should handle this feat, it ends up being almost x8 the Mach 3 speed, which doesn't work

 

[Therefir]

Combat speed is usually faster than movement speed, I think it could work out.

Also Cap having Subsonic movement with Massive Hypersonic+ combat speed seems far more egregious to me.

Although if you think it's an outlier, you could remake Strym's parry calc using a similar method (calculating the length of his arm and angle of movement during the parry), it should still give higher results.

As for his faster moves, just scale them all from the parry itself and put them as his combat speed, as I've been saying.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Can someone list wincons

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Combat speed is usually faster than movement speed, I think it could work out.

Also Cap having Subsonic movement with Massive Hypersonic+ combat speed seems far more egregious to me.

Most of Peppino's moveset is based on his travel speed tho
Fake Peppino even utilizes his Mach Run to amp his speed and tag Peppino,
Think we'll just have to go with "Sub-Relativistic, higher with Mach Run" like how it used to be

 

[Therefir]

Can someone list wincons

Kris: Higher scaling in AP and durability, decent buffs (Greater defense) and debuffs (defense reduction, damage reduction, can make the enemy feel exhausted, feel at ease, or make them lose their resolve to fight), great healing, as there is no limit how many Pirouettes can be used, far greater range, better at dodging and more dexterous at attacking.

Peppino: Better stamina (Can ignore really painful attacks like nothing), regeneration (can regenerate broken bones and shattered teeth), reflection (can reflect projectiles back at the opponent), elasticity and toon force (can extend his arms and make them much bigger than normal), higher lifting strength (only in Rage mode).

 

[Therefir]

Someone would have to confirm this for me, but wouldn't making Peppino "feel at ease" cause him to lose his rage power, at least temporarily? That would leave him completely vulnerable, he's only above 0.50 tons while in rage mode, and Kris can one-shot any 8-C around 0.50 tons or less.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Kris: Higher scaling in AP and durability, decent buffs (Greater defense) and debuffs (defense reduction, damage reduction, can make the enemy feel exhausted, feel at ease, or make them lose their resolve to fight), great healing, as there is no limit how many Pirouettes can be used, far greater range, better at dodging and more dexterous at attacking.

Peppino: Better stamina (Can ignore really painful attacks like nothing), regeneration (can regenerate broken bones and shattered teeth), reflection (can reflect projectiles back at the opponent), elasticity and toon force (can extend his arms and make them much bigger than normal), higher lifting strength (only in Rage mode).

I'd argue the most useful stuff in this is Kris' higher durability, debuffs, and healing.
For Peppino it's his stamina, toon force and parrying.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Peppino also has Satan's Choice, and I don't think Kris being able to survive Acid would matter too much, since their processes are very different

 

[Therefir]

How's Satan's Choice scaling to the 8-C value exactly? It says his optional equipment is only "even higher" than 9-A+.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

I think this is saying that Peppino has Satan's Choice over his 8-C rage stats

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Also the heat is the main point

 

[Therefir]

I think this is saying that Peppino has Satan's Choice over his 8-C rage stats

The user The_Pink_God stated early in this thread that all his equipment is only scaling to the 9-A+ value, far lower than his Rage Mode, making every equipment here practically useless.

Someone would have to confirm this for me, but wouldn't making Peppino "feel at ease" cause him to lose his rage power, at least temporarily? That would leave him completely vulnerable, he's only above 0.50 tons while in rage mode, and Kris can one-shot any 8-C around 0.50 tons or less.

Besides, no one has ever responded to this point, you can't be "at ease" while enraged, and Peppino needs to be quite enraged even to be in his Rage Mode.

He doesn't even have resistance to empathetic manipulation, a single use of Pirouette it's gonna be his downfall.