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Pennywise vs Rimuru (LN)
- Thread starter Oblivion_Of_The_Endless
- Start date
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Oh, for ****'s sake.
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Didn't one of the main supporters for this verse just recently concede that Pennywise stomps the entire cast? (or at the very least all of the High 7-As in the setting?)
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Rimuru is above them iircMrKingOfNegativity said:
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Eganergo said:
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So... what's that immortality type 9 about? Can the avatar be replaced within the timeframe of SBA? Or will destroying the avatar result in win via BFR?
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His 1-A form creates it.NeoSuperior said:
Yes.
No.
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Rimuru looks at him and gets mindhaxed
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@EmperorDoom25
Then isn't this a spite thread? Or rather, isn't any match-up for the clown below 1-A a spite thread? I never understood why anyone would think making these "lower keys" that essentially still require to beat the "real 20+ tiers higher version" to win in the first place. What's the point?
@PaChi2
That makes more sense.
Then isn't this a spite thread? Or rather, isn't any match-up for the clown below 1-A a spite thread? I never understood why anyone would think making these "lower keys" that essentially still require to beat the "real 20+ tiers higher version" to win in the first place. What's the point?
@PaChi2
That makes more sense.
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- #12
He does care about the avatars tho
And SBA says willing to kill anyways
And SBA says willing to kill anyways
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Lol I just read Rimuru had immunity to mind manipulation
Okay.
Okay.
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Not this key.Schnee One said:
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This battle is for a spot in the strongest High 7-As listNeoSuperior said:
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- #17
Only his 6-C form have thatSchnee One said:
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How strong is the mindhax btw?
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I'll copy and paste King's comment:NeoSuperior said:
- Pennywise abuses telepathy and illusions in-character, very often. Telepathy is strong enough to affect an entire town the size of Bangor, Maine, and illusions can trick all five senses as well as cause legitimate physical harm to a victim. So the fight likely starts with the target either mind-controlled or memory-wiped, or dealing with something that isn't even there.
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It isn't so much that his 6C form has it so much as I find it funny he has immunity to it
Rimuru looks at Penny and gets hit with 1A madness Hax, regardless of him being High 7A or 6C.
Rimuru looks at Penny and gets hit with 1A madness Hax, regardless of him being High 7A or 6C.
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Weaknesses: It underestimates and scorns humanity, considering them weak and toying with them. It makes mistakes and does illogical things fairly regularly. It is sensitive to psychic energy, so collective belief and courage can overcome it. When It transforms into a shape, it must comply to the laws of that shape. It goes into hibernation for 26-27 years between cycles, and during that time, it is vulnerable to attack
Rimuru looks like a human. Pennywise wont be serious.
And the clown is always willing to kill. SBA doesnt bloodlust him.
Rimuru looks like a human. Pennywise wont be serious.
And the clown is always willing to kill. SBA doesnt bloodlust him.
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@Pachi
I mean, Rimuru still gets affected just by looking at Penny
The High 7-A key is the most close one to his original form in appearence, so....1-A madness
I mean, Rimuru still gets affected just by looking at Penny
The High 7-A key is the most close one to his original form in appearence, so....1-A madness
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Oh about rimuru immunity to mind manipulation is just unconventional resistance not immunity,it suppose to be fix to unconventional resistance.
About the match I just going to watch.
About the match I just going to watch.
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Hm... the issue is that Penny's avatar form has no resistances whatsoever and no soul hax.
And I wonder if hallucination/mind/madness hax even works on his magic sense. Remember, 4km starting distance. If Rimuru is in slime form, he doesn't even have normal perception. Also magic sense was shown to not be affected by hallucinations.
And I wonder if hallucination/mind/madness hax even works on his magic sense. Remember, 4km starting distance. If Rimuru is in slime form, he doesn't even have normal perception. Also magic sense was shown to not be affected by hallucinations.
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- #26
Pretty sure its passive in this key since (as I already said) this key is the closer one to his original 1-A form when it comes to appearence
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It explicitly says "eye contact" for the deadlights hax though. So since human form usually wears his mask that doesn't have any eyeholes and Slime form doesn't have any eyes to begin with, it won't get triggered...
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Pennywise can affect things that are not even alive to begin with....let alone someone that doesnt have eyes
And the Slime can still see with his mask, so...
And the Slime can still see with his mask, so...
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My dood. Being the closest one to the true form in appearencr is meaningless when the true form is 1-A and this form is still a 3D being.EmperorDoom25 said:
The whole point of it being "lol 1-A madhax" is that its triggered by the 1-A true form and not an avatar. At most you could say that this form has regular 3D madhax.
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Pretty sure that "Eye-contact" means "both people looking into each others' eyes" and nothing else. I am just saying that that is what's written on the profile for THAT key.
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Eh...I'll just wait for King to comment here
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As I've said before, the Deadlights madness thing happens if/when you see into Pennywise's eyes, not the other way around.
And in this form, yes, so much as looking at its eyes causes you to see the Deadlights, as that's exactly what happened to one of the characters during the second Ritual of Chud. (Although by that point, "the power of the Other" presumably just sort of saved him from going insane, because that was a thing during the second Ritual)
>"If you put the avatar down they simply go to sleep for the next 27 years"
Not unless you damage its true form in the Ritual of Chud first. Which, again, was what happened in the novel.
> "1-A Pennywise cares sh** about their avatar"
It also held a grudge against the Losers for the entire 27 year period after they beat it the first time, and the only reason it didn't straight up go after them again after either Ritual was because, surprise, they badly harmed its true form prior to that (both times) and therefore it needed time to recuperate before going back and facing the kids. Who, mind you, were explicitly amped by beings above even True Pennywise's paygrade, on a physical, mental and spiritual level.
If its true form wasn't damaged to the point that it couldn't even sustain the avatar it was already using (the second time around, said avatar even began bleeding from multiple inexplicable wounds and couldn't even regenerate from having its heart ripped out), then it almost assuredly would have sent another one in to kill them. As it was, it managed to wipe all of the Losers' memories as its avatar was dying, presumably as one last act of either spite or self-preservation.
And in this form, yes, so much as looking at its eyes causes you to see the Deadlights, as that's exactly what happened to one of the characters during the second Ritual of Chud. (Although by that point, "the power of the Other" presumably just sort of saved him from going insane, because that was a thing during the second Ritual)
>"If you put the avatar down they simply go to sleep for the next 27 years"
Not unless you damage its true form in the Ritual of Chud first. Which, again, was what happened in the novel.
> "1-A Pennywise cares sh** about their avatar"
It also held a grudge against the Losers for the entire 27 year period after they beat it the first time, and the only reason it didn't straight up go after them again after either Ritual was because, surprise, they badly harmed its true form prior to that (both times) and therefore it needed time to recuperate before going back and facing the kids. Who, mind you, were explicitly amped by beings above even True Pennywise's paygrade, on a physical, mental and spiritual level.
If its true form wasn't damaged to the point that it couldn't even sustain the avatar it was already using (the second time around, said avatar even began bleeding from multiple inexplicable wounds and couldn't even regenerate from having its heart ripped out), then it almost assuredly would have sent another one in to kill them. As it was, it managed to wipe all of the Losers' memories as its avatar was dying, presumably as one last act of either spite or self-preservation.
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What if "sight" isn't used, but instead some sort of (magical) ESP?
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About the form of Pennywise:
His 7-A avatar is his spider form, which is the one wherein the Deadlights are prominently on display. One engages in the contest of wills by looking into IT's eyes, but curiously the deadlights seem to be embodied by this form:
Obviously MrKing might have a slightly different interpretation of this. But yes, staring into IT's eyes literally two pages later is what triggers Bill starting the Ritual yet again, 27 years after the first occurrence.
To fight Pennywise in this form, you pretty well have to be immune to mindhax since the Deadlights are a direct connection to a 1-A being's willpower and you MUST engage and overcome said being mentally to beat Pennywise in this form.
I have my own pet theory that the deadlights can be put on display at any time based on the above quote, for what it's worth.
As-is I give my vote to the Clown, his kit is absurdly unfair in most VS battles due to the fact that he has a permanent speed-dial to Madness Hax Incorporated, whose Tier 1-A CEO always answers the phone.
His 7-A avatar is his spider form, which is the one wherein the Deadlights are prominently on display. One engages in the contest of wills by looking into IT's eyes, but curiously the deadlights seem to be embodied by this form:
| Then Beverly was shrieking, clinging to Bill, as It raced down the gossamer curtain of Its webbing, a nightmare Spider from beyond time and space, a Spider from beyond the fevered imaginings of whatever inmates may live in the deepest depths of hell. No, Bill thought coldly, not a Spider either, not really, but this shape isn't one It picked out of our minds; it's just the closest our minds can come to (the deadlights) whatever It really is. | ||
~ Bill when looking at the avatar |
To fight Pennywise in this form, you pretty well have to be immune to mindhax since the Deadlights are a direct connection to a 1-A being's willpower and you MUST engage and overcome said being mentally to beat Pennywise in this form.
I have my own pet theory that the deadlights can be put on display at any time based on the above quote, for what it's worth.
As-is I give my vote to the Clown, his kit is absurdly unfair in most VS battles due to the fact that he has a permanent speed-dial to Madness Hax Incorporated, whose Tier 1-A CEO always answers the phone.
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So how did the humans combat the avatar without being turned into the Joker from seeing his eyes?
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The thing is... Penny doesn't have any resistances whatsoever. NONE. Rimuru uses coercion once, Penny gets knocked out, win via incap for Rimuru. Unfortunately for Penny, the SBA starting distance is 4km, so "looking into the eyes out of reflex" is impossible. Rimuru's Magic Sense can cover the distance though and thanks to info analysis knows immidietly what NOT to do in front of Penny.
Normally Penny could probably be faster, but in-character? I don't think Penny would act fast enough to kill Rimuru.
Normally Penny could probably be faster, but in-character? I don't think Penny would act fast enough to kill Rimuru.
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@Xulrev:
From what I could tell, the only reason they were even able to look into its eyes without just going mad right then and there was because of the Ritual itself, and the fact that (like I mentioned before) both Rituals involved the explicit empowerment of god-tiers above Penny's weight class. Literally nobody else but the Losers seem to survive looking at the Deadlights (unless I'm forgetting some bit character), and the only time the Losers see the Deadlights is right before/during the Ritual.
@NeoSuperior:
That's probably just as bad for completely different reasons, since the Losers' telepathy (they all passively hear the thoughts of those around them, just like any other baseline SK-verse psychics can) didn't even start showing them Pennywise's thoughts until the aforementioned Ritual of Chud where they were amped in every way imaginable, mental powers included.
If Rimuru relies on telepathy or ESP or something to even see, he probably won't even see Pennywise. That, or he'll see the form without its masks in place and start going mad relatively quickly. (Since whenever it doesn't take the form of something specific, its form becomes the closest representation to its true self that it can, and this actually does start driving the characters out of their minds right before the second Ritual starts.)
It might save Rimuru from getting Deadlights'd to death, but that seems like a superficial benefit by that point.
From what I could tell, the only reason they were even able to look into its eyes without just going mad right then and there was because of the Ritual itself, and the fact that (like I mentioned before) both Rituals involved the explicit empowerment of god-tiers above Penny's weight class. Literally nobody else but the Losers seem to survive looking at the Deadlights (unless I'm forgetting some bit character), and the only time the Losers see the Deadlights is right before/during the Ritual.
@NeoSuperior:
That's probably just as bad for completely different reasons, since the Losers' telepathy (they all passively hear the thoughts of those around them, just like any other baseline SK-verse psychics can) didn't even start showing them Pennywise's thoughts until the aforementioned Ritual of Chud where they were amped in every way imaginable, mental powers included.
If Rimuru relies on telepathy or ESP or something to even see, he probably won't even see Pennywise. That, or he'll see the form without its masks in place and start going mad relatively quickly. (Since whenever it doesn't take the form of something specific, its form becomes the closest representation to its true self that it can, and this actually does start driving the characters out of their minds right before the second Ritual starts.)
It might save Rimuru from getting Deadlights'd to death, but that seems like a superficial benefit by that point.
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Also, I want to point out that the illusions mentioned way back in this thread aren't just sight-based. They're shown to trick all senses at once, including smell and hearing, and thanks to reality-warping, they can actually physically hurt whoever perceives them. The kids' telepathic senses were no exception to this (not at first, anyway), so I don't think Rimuru's will be either.
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No, it's magic-based "ESP", or more like some sort of magic-based echo-location. Further, all information perceived through that gets filtered by the Conceptual Intelligence within Rimuru's soul who can use information analysis so even if Penny manipulates the perception of Rimuru, it doesn't affect the Conceptual Intelligence, who Penny doesn't even know to exist.
