Part 2: The Kindness of the Kindred - Wattson (Apex Legends) vs Mei (Overwatch)

[Mr. Bambu]

yes

 

[Oleggator]

Fra

So, anyway seriously who?

 

[Sir_Ovens]

This might end up inconclusive at this point.

 

[Abstractions]

I'll try to give as thorough analysis as I can here, because thematically I like what you are doing with these:

Spoiler: Defense

In terms of defense Mei obviously has her bases covered, she can quickly produce Ice Walls and shield herself with Cryo-Freeze if necessary to shield in a pinch or heal (however she hasn't actually displayed this in combat, like you would expect in Zero Hour, I'll cover this a bit more when we get to skill), despite her shortcomings there however we can see that her ice is much more expansive compared to how it works in game, meaning there's no shortage of cover. She also has the added benefit of just being more durable in this instance, even if she is not wearing actual armor.

Wattson in this case is less durable despite her shielding, while yes she has the option to heal and restore her shielding these take a bit of time similar to Cryo-Freeze but, unlike Cryo-Freeze, she is not protected while vulnerable this way. She has the unique capability of actual area denial with the use of her Perimeter Security, but this doesn't actually interfere with her ability to be shot, just prevent Mei from getting close which is useful for avoiding getting a full spray of ice and being frozen. She also has her Interception Pylon which will more than likely shut down Snowball, a crucial factor of Mei's offense.

Strictly going by defensive measures, Mei's ease in deploying cover through Ice Walls and her Cryo-Freeze protecting her inevitably make her the better in this category. Defense favors Mei.

Spoiler: Offense

Offensively Mei doesn't have much in terms of versatility, she uses her blaster which can produce walls, freeze people either with the spray or icicles (Note that in Zero Hour these either aren't portrayed as lethal or all that penetrative compared to their game counterparts, so while her 9-A AP is present the scope of it's lethality is up to debate). Snowball can use Blizzard which will make an AoE freeze zone for a short period of time, this obviously is useful as it could instantly end the fight if used correctly, however we do not see her actually use this ability in what little we've seen of her in combat, also being her ultimate ability we can assume it will have less presence in the fight than Cryo-Freeze.

Wattson on the other hand has access to the Peacekeeper, the G7 Scout, and some explosives with her frag grenades and thermite bombs. She is clearly kitted for the kill here and has the versatility aspect in the bag, and her shortcomings with Perimeter Security defensively benefit her here as she has better range in comparison to Mei, she has a much easier time shooting for the kill as bullets will pass through the fences, unlike Ice Wall which needs to be dropped or broken. She also can disintegrate with a touch, like displayed in her finishers.

While Mei has the option of easily winning with the use of Snowball or just freezing Wattson, Wattson's kit counters Mei's when you account for Interception Pylon being able to disable a crucial factor of her offense, and her Perimeter Security not gimping her ability to shoot her target, unlike Mei's Ice Walls, which as an added factor should be breakable with the use of thermites. (Whether we consider this a factor against Cryo-Freeze is up for debate)

A shotgun may not be wise in this matchup, but Wattson has another weapon to compensate, unlike Mei who is restricted to a singular tool, and while Pylon can be shot, Wattson's Spark of Genius allows Ultimate Accelerants to fully charge it, allowing for its immediate deploy once again.

Offense favors Wattson.

Spoiler: Skill

Probably the most important part of the debate comes down to the skill, as certain areas clearly favor one over the other. In which looking through what is presented, Wattson is undoubtedly more skilled as she has more active experience within Apex (She was hired to build The Ring for the Apex Games and participates in them) compared to what we have presented with Mei.

When we see her in Zero Hour, she actively displays her inexperience when in a gunfight she is unable to keep an eye on her surroundings, which is why Tracer ends up defending her and reminding her to watch her back; she's new to combat and we see it within her demeanor and posture. We know she is at least able to think quickly as she puts up an Ice Wall to save the civilians before being blasted away, and with using her cannister and Tracer's Pulse Bomb to produce a strong flash freeze. But crucial pieces of her kit are not displayed here which indicates the limited nature or inexperience in their use, she's not a fighter.

Both are smart and innovative, yes, but Wattson shows more promise in combat than Mei does, and will actively use what she has at her disposal to the fullest, which I can't say the same for her opposition.

TL;DR: Mei has excellent defense, but Wattson's better offense, versatility, and experience in combat situations make me inclined to vote for her.

Team Wattson, 8/10.

 

[Oleggator]

I'll try to give as thorough analysis as I can here, because thematically I like what you are doing with these:

Spoiler: Defense

In terms of defense Mei obviously has her bases covered, she can quickly produce Ice Walls and shield herself with Cryo-Freeze if necessary to shield in a pinch or heal (however she hasn't actually displayed this in combat, like you would expect in Zero Hour, I'll cover this a bit more when we get to skill), despite her shortcomings there however we can see that her ice is much more expansive compared to how it works in game, meaning there's no shortage of cover. She also has the added benefit of just being more durable in this instance, even if she is not wearing actual armor.

Wattson in this case is less durable despite her shielding, while yes she has the option to heal and restore her shielding these take a bit of time similar to Cryo-Freeze but, unlike Cryo-Freeze, she is not protected while vulnerable this way. She has the unique capability of actual area denial with the use of her Perimeter Security, but this doesn't actually interfere with her ability to be shot, just prevent Mei from getting close which is useful for avoiding getting a full spray of ice and being frozen. She also has her Interception Pylon which will more than likely shut down Snowball, a crucial factor of Mei's offense.

Strictly going by defensive measures, Mei's ease in deploying cover through Ice Walls and her Cryo-Freeze protecting her inevitably make her the better in this category. Defense favors Mei.

Spoiler: Offense

Offensively Mei doesn't have much in terms of versatility, she uses her blaster which can produce walls, freeze people either with the spray or icicles (Note that in Zero Hour these either aren't portrayed as lethal or all that penetrative compared to their game counterparts, so while her 9-A AP is present the scope of it's lethality is up to debate). Snowball can use Blizzard which will make an AoE freeze zone for a short period of time, this obviously is useful as it could instantly end the fight if used correctly, however we do not see her actually use this ability in what little we've seen of her in combat, also being her ultimate ability we can assume it will have less presence in the fight than Cryo-Freeze.

Wattson on the other hand has access to the Peacekeeper, the G7 Scout, and some explosives with her frag grenades and thermite bombs. She is clearly kitted for the kill here and has the versatility aspect in the bag, and her shortcomings with Perimeter Security defensively benefit her here as she has better range in comparison to Mei, she has a much easier time shooting for the kill as bullets will pass through the fences, unlike Ice Wall which needs to be dropped or broken. She also can disintegrate with a touch, like displayed in her finishers.

While Mei has the option of easily winning with the use of Snowball or just freezing Wattson, Wattson's kit counters Mei's when you account for Interception Pylon being able to disable a crucial factor of her offense, and her Perimeter Security not gimping her ability to shoot her target, unlike Mei's Ice Walls, which as an added factor should be breakable with the use of thermites. (Whether we consider this a factor against Cryo-Freeze is up for debate)

A shotgun may not be wise in this matchup, but Wattson has another weapon to compensate, unlike Mei who is restricted to a singular tool, and while Pylon can be shot, Wattson's Spark of Genius allows Ultimate Accelerants to fully charge it, allowing for its immediate deploy once again.

Offense favors Wattson.

Spoiler: Skill

Probably the most important part of the debate comes down to the skill, as certain areas clearly favor one over the other. In which looking through what is presented, Wattson is undoubtedly more skilled as she has more active experience within Apex (She was hired to build The Ring for the Apex Games and participates in them) compared to what we have presented with Mei.

When we see her in Zero Hour, she actively displays her inexperience when in a gunfight she is unable to keep an eye on her surroundings, which is why Tracer ends up defending her and reminding her to watch her back; she's new to combat and we see it within her demeanor and posture. We know she is at least able to think quickly as she puts up an Ice Wall to save the civilians before being blasted away, and with using her cannister and Tracer's Pulse Bomb to produce a strong flash freeze. But crucial pieces of her kit are not displayed here which indicates the limited nature or inexperience in their use, she's not a fighter.

Both are smart and innovative, yes, but Wattson shows more promise in combat than Mei does, and will actively use what she has at her disposal to the fullest, which I can't say the same for her opposition.

TL;DR: Mei has excellent defense, but Wattson's better offense, versatility, and experience in combat situations make me inclined to vote for her.

Team Wattson, 8/10.

Would try to give a counters:

Spoiler: Defense

While both have some defense stuff, I don't much see Mei's ammo ending fast, while I do agree that Mei obviously have some kind of limits, unlike in game where her ammo is basically infinite, but it shouldn't be so much limits on it. In same zero hour or rise and shine she doesn't seem to have a really expensive ammo. Unlike with Wattson but I would touch it a bit later.

Spoiler: Offense/Attack

While Mei's arsenal doesn't seem to be deadly in a way it's still very useful, like, the win con is not just to kill but it can be incap which Mei can do pretty freely. Considering blizzard froze stuff at least for longer time in game, it's hard to imagine how much ice blizzard would produce in the canon, considering how fast Mei freezing stuff canonically, not just a game mechanic, and to counter the fact she wouldn't freeze for long time because game. We basically have a base difference between game mechanics and lore, to point out not only zero hour showed Mei freezing stuff for bare seconds we see that also in rise and shine. And well "Lore > game mechanics" is rules here. Despite of not having it in game but it's for reason, imagine if Mei could freeze you in seconds and you would stay for minutes/hours, that's obviously wouldn't be used for PVP, for same reason PVE stuff in OW2 wouldn't be used in PVP, cause that would be too op. And while Wattson holds advantage on having more deadly weaponary, It's good compensated by Mei's defensive capabilities unlike Wattson defense capabilities against Mei's maybe not versatile but still effective ice hax.

Shortly saying, Mei despite of not being deadliest still very dangerous by her ice hax.

Spoiler: Skill/Intelligence

There's nothing much to cover, Mei still have to learn to exactly fight and Wattson would hold the advantage here, but not as big as it seems. Mei still at least as sciencetist can try to understand what Wattson have exactly in her pocket. And well as you said she still can understand situations quickly. And what's mostly importantly, Mei would be allowed to do more mistakes and learn on it via self healing.

The summary: Wattson holds a skill advantage and her weaponary should be considered as more deadly.
But Mei's still some little but skill to fighting and defense capabilities should keep her able to stay long and defense her from the deadly arsenal of Wattson. And despite of having less deadly weaponary, they're still extremely dangerous and can end fight in mere a seconds.

 

[Abstractions]

While both have some defense stuff, I don't much see Mei's ammo ending fast, while I do agree that Mei obviously have some kind of limits, unlike in game where her ammo is basically infinite, but it shouldn't be so much limits on it. In same zero hour or rise and shine she doesn't seem to have a really expensive ammo. Unlike with Wattson but I would touch it a bit later.

I'm not sure how this is countering what I said, I never brought up ammo capacity.

While Mei's arsenal doesn't seem to be deadly in a way it's still very useful, like, the win con is not just to kill but it can be incap which Mei can do pretty freely. Considering blizzard froze stuff at least for longer time in game, it's hard to imagine how much ice blizzard would produce in the canon, considering how fast Mei freezing stuff canonically, not just a game mechanic, and to counter the fact she wouldn't freeze for long time because game. We basically have a base difference between game mechanics and lore, to point out not only zero hour showed Mei freezing stuff for bare seconds we see that also in rise and shine. And well "Lore > game mechanics" is rules here. Despite of not having it in game but it's for reason, imagine if Mei could freeze you in seconds and you would stay for minutes/hours, that's obviously wouldn't be used for PVP, for same reason PVE stuff in OW2 wouldn't be used in PVP, cause that would be too op. And while Wattson holds advantage on having more deadly weaponary, It's good compensated by Mei's defensive capabilities unlike Wattson defense capabilities against Mei's maybe not versatile but still effective ice hax.

Shortly saying, Mei despite of not being deadliest still very dangerous by her ice hax.

I accounted for the fact that Mei could freeze fast, but Pylon can intercept and shoot down Snowball, disabling him, and unlike Snowball the Pylon can be accessed again really quickly because of Wattson's Spark of Genius.

On the topic why Wattson was better despite not being able to freeze fast was the fences, she can force distance so Mei can't use her spray effectively and use the less impactful ranged shots, which took a couple to incapacitate a Null Sector bot.

I agreed that Mei had better defense, just that Wattson's enabled her more than not.

There's nothing much to cover, Mei still have to learn to exactly fight and Wattson would hold the advantage here, but not as big as it seems. Mei still at least as sciencetist can try to understand what Wattson have exactly in her pocket. And well as you said she still can understand situations quickly. And what's mostly importantly, Mei would be allowed to do more mistakes and learn on it via self healing.

Wattson is incredibly bright as well, it's not as if Mei's holding the intelligence advantage despite skill being in Wattson's favor, they are both the same in this regard. This means any intuitive thinking Mei has can also be said for Wattson.

Mei has little combat experience, and Zero Hour tells us this with how she acts. She didn't use Cryo-Freeze when it would have benefitted her and that either tells us she will not use it often or is inexperienced with it. Both of which are relevant to this fight.

The summary: Wattson holds a skill advantage and her weaponary should be considered as more deadly.
But Mei's still some little but skill to fighting and defense capabilities should keep her able to stay long and defense her from the deadly arsenal of Wattson. And despite of having less deadly weaponary, they're still extremely dangerous and can end fight in mere a seconds.

I acknowledged the potential of Mei's ice, just that it wasn't impactful enough to influence my choice.

Mei's abilities are not restrictive on Wattson, Perimeter Security is restrictive on Mei's ability to reach Wattson to use her spray and Pylon will destroy Snowball, if you couple that with the fact that Mei isn't as experienced with her abilities while Wattson is the choice should look pretty clear cut.

 

[Greatsage13th]

Leaning on Wattson for abit

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Bump.

 

[Lawiegg]

Frq

 

[Popted2]

bump

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Ok so the latest trailer proves that Wattson canonically sets up her fences as traps that can be triggered when people walk past them. She also vaporises people in-character.