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Overwatch Revisions

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@Aiden

Really? Because I distinctly remember that same blog saying that the Town rating came from fragmentatio. Doomfist leveled it. He didn't smash it into a billion pieces.

Dodging a grenade is outlierish when he's probably dodged dozens more in the past. Alright then.

@Esoteric

Authors are horrifically bad at math. Heck, the page image for our Calculations page is erroneous. We simply must take each and every author statement with a grain of salt and do the calc ourselves.

Physics break down when you exceed the speed of light. Those scientific theories can only go so far.

Impartial or not. They've been reviewed and accepted for the longest.

I don't care about those projectiles since we're not using them for scaling. I haven't even mentioned them once in my arguments. Whether or not their travel speed is changed is not my problem. If we revise it, sure, whatever. But what I'm vehemently against is the fact that we're trying to downgrade the AP and Combat Speed of these characters for outright ridiculous reasons.
 
@Aiden

You're not getting the point. Doomfist didn't wreck every fragment of the building. He knocked it over with a punch, which, once again, is our textbook definition of Large Building level.

I actually denied someone's attempts to raise their speed based on the assumption that Overwatch rounds move at the speed of light. I'm not arguing travel speed. Stuffing words in my mouth isn't proving your point.

All I care about is combat speed. Nothing more.
 
@Reppuzan

1) For me the issue is mostly the Subsonic Travel speeds. They should be at Regular Human given the 5.5 m/s movement speed they have in the game OR since it looks more like they are lightly jogging or hustling than sprinting, it should be at Athlete level or Peak Human level. At least Athlete given their status as heroes, likely higher.

2) The lifting can easily get cleared up if revisited.

3) Mach 90 is just so fast compared to all their other showings. Scaling it down to Mach 1-5, as inferred from the Genji feat, or actually hashing out what Tracer's Aim Dodge is could solve this one too.

4) AP and Durability I haven't looked into the explosions and skyscraper demolition feats enough to have a valid opinion. I do think it's a bit high, expecting Widowmaker to be as powerful as a skyscraper from a single showing of her being bopped by a teen using a powerful weapon. I mean the kid took some recoil from that and it isn't likely that he is building level or some such.
 
I think that Aiden is saying is that the stat Large Building comes from anywhere, if destroying completely a shyscraper is Small Town, and the gauntlet can't destroying it in that way, most likely via destroying the base of the building, the stat Large Building isn't being justificable. It even say that the gauntlet can tear down the skyscraper in one attack? doesn't seems to be the case with what I saw in the cinematic; but again, was a teenager who use it, so the max potential could haven't been used.
 
Dodging a grenade is outlierish when he's probably dodged dozens more in the past. Alright then.

One point of concern, that "probably" makes your statement sound like one huge assumption, which does not lend well towards your argument.

But also it isn't just about dodging grenades. He likely normally did not have to save civilians from them. Or take so long debating whether or not to save the civilian vs chase down the bad guys. Even if dodging grenades is something he does often, I don't think this feat speaks for most if any of those other instances.
 
@Antoniofer

Then we'd have have go through all of Tier 8 and change the characters who got their ratings from leveling or crushing skyscrapers with their attacks.

@Esoteric

1) Every major character is at least an Athletic Human for being professional soldiers or being able to keep up with them. No less.

2) Fine.

3) You'll need the staff input of others since I'm sick and tired of this topic being discussed to death.

4) You don't expect Mega Ma to be Small Planet level or the protagonist of Saint Seiya being able to destroy islands by accident. Seems high isn't flying. I'm willing to accept the argument that the kid in the trailer likely wasn't using the gauntlets to its full potential, but there's still the fact that the Overwatch characters aren't one-shotting each other. The there's the fact that Reaper reduced a squad of mechs designed to turn the tide of an entire war (which includes skyscraper-sized robots) into scrap with nothing but his shotguns.
 
Reppuzan said:
@Aiden
I actually denied someone's attempts to raise their speed based on the assumption that Overwatch rounds move at the speed of light. I'm not arguing travel speed. Stuffing words in my mouth isn't proving your point.

All I care about is combat speed. Nothing more.
Click to expand...
I didn't put anything in your mouth


I just said that having a Mach 90 feat compared to the Super/Hypersonic consistent is what we define as outlier
 
@Esoteric

When robots are able to regularly commit bombing raids on major cities and everyone and their mother can jump out of the way of explosions from Pharah's rockets and Junkrat's grenades, it's hardly an unjustified assumption.

He ran like that to save thousands of lives during the Omnic Crisis. That's hardly an argument in itself.
 
@Aiden

You did in fact do so with that smart alec remark about scaling Overwatch characters to supposedly faster-than-light rounds which I never mentioned on this thread. Going ahead, use Ctrl + F. I'll wait.

By the way, the lightspeed bolts I mentioned were from Star Wars. Since you can't seem to comprehend context.

Again, more staff input is needed because I'm tired of this topic being discussed to death.
 
What are the others Large Building feats here? the way that Reaper defeated the machine is unknown, so we can't say than that is a LB feat, and considering that characters can be damaged by Winston (whos AP/ST were calculed in 9-B) and people (most of then) are threatred by bullets don't seems to indicate that they aren't LB (damaged by bullets could just count as no being bullet-proof tho).
 
@Reppuzan and Aiden Both of you seem to be rather heated up and are starting to get a bit sarcastic with each other. I'm sorry but I think it'd be better if you two tried calming down a bit.

But with that aside, I believe that Reppuzan's points are making sense.
 
Reppuzan said:
@Aiden
You did in fact do so with that smart alec remark about scaling Overwatch characters to supposedly faster-than-light rounds which I never mentioned on this thread. Going ahead, use Ctrl + F. I'll wait.
Click to expand...
That wasn't the point

The point stills, Mach 90 is really an outlier
 
Antoniofer said:
What are the others Large Building feats here? the way that Reaper defeated the machine is unknown, so we can't say than that is a LB feat, and considering that characters can be damaged by Winston (whos AP/ST were calculed in 9-B) and people (most of then) are threatred by bullets don't seems to indicate that they aren't LB (damaged by bullets could just count as no being bullet-proof tho).
Click to expand...
Well, I think that Mei gun could yield some 9-A results


Which could be reasonable with making a building collapse be destroying one floor.
 
Ryukama said:
@Reppuzan and Aiden Both of you seem to be rather heated up and are starting to get a bit sarcastic with each other. I'm sorry but I think it'd be better if you two tried calming down a bit.
Click to expand...
Sorry
 
On the topic of Soldier 76, I've actually always had a problem with the claim hypersonic speed based on the assumption that he outran an explosion.

However, if you watch the scene with a critical eye, you'll notice some rather telling details.

1) Prior to the explosion, Soldier: 76 was not hit once and shows no visible signs of injury. His jacket is in pristine conditio.

2) Immediately after the explosion, Soldier: 76 utters several grunts and groans (presumably from pain), holds his side (again, presumably from pain), walks with a slight limp, and the back of his jacket has scorch marks and small holes in it.

3) We do not see Soldier 76 during the explosion, so we do not see him outrunning it.

Given the above evidence, it's far more reasonable to assume that Soldier: 76 did not outrun the explosio and instead shielded the girl with his body by taking the blast (and fragments) to his back as he rode the explosion, consistent with the signs of injury and apparent damage to the jacket shown in the clip.

Unfortunately, this would mean a hefty downgrade in speed. However, I don't feel like anybody can honestly deny that the evidence above clearly shows that Soldier: 76 was hit by the explosion, and thus could not have outrun it. Even measuring the time between the last on-screen pre-explosion appearance of Soldier: 76 and the explosion itself is not going to change anything, because that is a obvious example of a cinematic time outlier (rules 3, 4, 7, and 8).
 
AidenBrooks999 said:
I have no trouble with Hypersonic Overwatch tho.
Click to expand...
Yeah, but it's not about what we want, it's about what's true.

Can you honestly claim that Soldier: 76 outran the explosion after the evidence I just gave supports the exact opposite conclusion?
 
Outrunning the explosion was calculated in being High Hypersonic, Aiden is suggestion (along with other member) to revert that upgrade and change again to Hypersonic. But question: what is the other feat that put them into Hypersonic? and what about the new AP for the characters?
 
Right.

Since it's apparent Soldier: 76 actually hit by the explosion, and the cut between the explosion and appearances of Soldier: 76 makes any timing dubious due to cinematic time rules, the explosion feat isn't a usable speed feat after all.

So, the question now it: what other feats are there that would put Soldier: 76 in the hypersonic regime?
 
So, downgrade to subsonic travel with likely supersonic reactions? What about combat speed?
 
I'm not sure that using in-game speed is wise, since that would be subject to arbitrary values due to both player perception (make sure players can mentally keep up with a character's movements while playing) and gameplay balancing (especially given its status as a competitive online game). You can tell that the values for character running speeds are arbitrarilly set for gameplay, since they're all exactly the same (except for 2-3 cases), so that players can keep pace with each other.
 
@Jaften

While they are indeed built for competitive play, the speeds are rather realistic given the characters actions in the cinematics too. The notion that speeds are slowed down for player perception can be debunked by looking at jumping and falling speeds. Since these speeds are relatively close to realtime. They linger in the air a little, but nothing significant enough to validate a huge multiplier to the in-game speeds.

They are definitely heroic, but subsonic speeds, put them on the level of highway vehicles, and the characters simply do not demonstrate this in the game or cinematics.
 
EsotericDichotomy said:
@Jaften
While they are indeed built for competitive play, the speeds are rather realistic given the characters actions in the cinematics too. The notion that speeds are slowed down for player perception can be debunked by looking at jumping and falling speeds. Since these speeds are relatively close to realtime. They linger in the air a little, but nothing significant enough to validate a huge multiplier to the in-game speeds.

They are definitely heroic, but subsonic speeds, put them on the level of highway vehicles, and the characters simply do not demonstrate this in the game or cinematics.
Click to expand...
Right, I won't argue with that. All I'm saying is that we should heavily prioritize feats from other sources rather than gameplay, since we know that gameplay is not particularly reliable due to being subject to arbitrary (and unrealistic) changes, like I said.

AidenBrooks999 said:
Hypersonic is from Genji refelcting Bastion's bullets
Click to expand...
Ah, yeah that makes sense.

But that wouldn't scale to anyone else, would it? I can't think of any feats that other characters have that would be similar to Genji's.
 
Where did you get the velocity for the missiles?

Also I don't know if that feat would be scaleable since it's Tracer using her unique ability to Blink.
 
Real-world small diameter missiles (although they're unguided) like the 2.25-Inch Sub-Caliber Aircraft Rocket, 3.5-Inch Forward Firing Aircraft Rocket, and Hydra 70. Because those examples are all outdated (they all originate from the 1940s, although the Hydra 70 is still used today on helicopters), I figured it was appropriate enough to scale off of them for the much more advanced world of Overwatch.
 
Hanzo isn't someone destacable by his speed (Nor in Gameplay or Cinematics), yet he matched Genji blow per blow, and his arrow kept with his speed.


Tracer is one if the fastest member, yet Widow also traded blow with her.


So, the characters would scale to each other, at least in reactions/combat speed
 
Hmm... that still fits with Supersonic to Supersonic+ Reaction speed. I think that can be linked as a speed feat. With the Genji feat, I think they could go all the way to Hypersonic. Just not High Hypersonic.

As for combat speeds, I think it is fair to say they are roughly as fast in combat as they can react. So Supersonic to Supersonic+ (Or Hypersonic with that Genji Feat.)
 
So, characters will be changed to Hypersonic reaction/combat speed, right? and AP (in base) changed to 9-B or what will happen with that?
 
I was planning to calc some of Mei's freezing feats


And yeah, the Skyscraper could most likely just be collapsed, and the Soldier 76 stills iffy for me.
 
Also please do not forget to revisit lifting strength and travel speed.

Lifting strength, Widowmaker and Tracer should not be stronger than Zarya.

Travel speed, the characters should be athlete at the least and Peak human at most.
 
Peak Human at most?


You kidding right?

They are all superhumans.

I'll try to find something, but they're Superhuman at least
 
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