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Ouma's Shoulder Charge

Firephoenixearl

Firephoenixearl

20,504
1,587
Ok since this calc is getting rather problematic and comments section doesn't give notification i decided to throw this in a thread instead. Ok so Ouma's calc can be found here along with the proof for speed and weight. The calc has correct math, but there are some other points people have brought up.

  • Outlier
I do not believe so. There are quotes in the blog i posted where Ouma is literally called "durable as a mountain" and "gives a feeling like hitting a mountain". I get that they do not give tiers, but if he has a mountain level calcs with words that literally call him a mountain, i do not see the problem. And above all else, even without this calc the verse has 7-B tiers, so it's not like we're getting the verse from tier 9 to 7-A here. We're at best getting it from 7-B to 7-A.

  • The speed
I did give feats about the speed Ouma moves at. And in a bloodlusted fight between 2 guys who fight at casual relativistic speeds, it makes sense to assume that they are fighting at those speeds. There is no reason to think that "they are giving their all, but they are going easy on speed". And to top it off, it's not just Ouma's shoulder charge. It was 1 attack, the same KE calculation can be made about literally every attack Ouma makes, including the ones where Ouma strikes fast enough to make Ikki call the attack "fast" and be amazed at it. As shown in the blog, they do specify that the reason for Ouma's huge strength does come from mass (unlike stella for example who is said to be too strong for someone with such slender legs).

  • Calc stacking
The speed and mass are both given by statements in the series. There is no other calc involved. All are statements with feats backing them up obviously.

These are the main points that were brought up. If there any more i'll gladly answer them.
 
Have you invited any calc group members that provided input?
 
I think the issue is the speed for KE needs to come exactly from the individual feat itself. It cannot come from any other source or feat in the series. If I'm right about this it's unusable, since we're told the speed separately.

While I think it makes sense to assume they're moving at that speed, I don't think the standards allow it. If this calc is rejected for this reason, I'd support a CRT to change the regulations to allow something like this.
 
Yes but at the same time. A relativistic dude like Ikki barely had any time to react to it. Only able to block, when he was stated to be able to easily dodge a relativistic attack.
 
Firephoenixearl said:
Yes but at the same time. A relativistic dude like Ikki barely had any time to react to it. Only able to block, when he was stated to be able to easily dodge a relativistic attack.
Click to expand...
Like I said, it's a regulations issue. I don't know why it isn't allowed, so I'd personally be fine with it if I was the god-dictator of VSBW, but our regulations don't let us use power-scaling to get the speed for KE.
 
Ok so this is all about the speed then. I will wait for Ant's input then. @Ant:

Narration states that Ikki Kurogane can easily dodge a relativistic attack (among other relativistic feats), however Ikki Kurogane could not dodge a shoulder attack coming from Ouma Kurogane. My question is. Is it really not safe to assume Ouma was moving at at least relativistic speeds to be able to blitz someone who a moment earlier dodged a relativistic attack? If so, why?

Our regulations on calcs usually exist for the purpose of "they are usually not the author's intention". The reason why KE doesn't apply to all cases, as authors usually make a big difference between speed and power. However in this case, if the author himself is stating that Ouma could move at more or less the same speed as someone who the (again) the author states "can dodge a relativistic attack", why is there a problem? The intention of the author seems pretty clear.
 
I think that scaling to relativistic speed seems fairly reliable, but it is not my area to evaluate, and I am rather forgetful due to juggling too many tasks at the same time for several years. Perhaps you can ask the calc group for help?
 
Well the calc group has kind of given their evaluation. Everyone seems to agree on the math, that it is correct. This is soley about the speed whether it's acceptable or not.
 
I was referring to our standards in general for these types of situations.
 
Just some calc group members should be fine.
 
I guess if it's not too inconsistent it could be used
 
Just wait for more calc group to comment, jeez. Jump on a few more of their message walls.
 
Unless I am remembering wrong, isn't the regulation partly because of the divide of power shown versus potential power due to how many times writers forget speed is an integral part of power? So when we get KE like this using speed derived from other calcs, it tends to throw inflated results because Authors rarely ever think about the much increased power that comes with speed?

But if this is from comparing directly to lightning, I am pretty neutral. I'll let the more knowledgeable people cast their thoughts.
 
When I say inconsistent, I mean inconsistent with the actual AP feats in the series

Kinda how like until recently, CW Flash was 7-C for KE, despite him being nowhere near that until like season 4 in any other department
 
It's a Light Novel, everything is more or less stated or implied; so there isn't any calc stacking involved. I'm also pretty sure Touka has a technique based on a railgun, so, the author clearly knows about KE and applies it in some cases. I support this, as long as the results are consistent with the verse.
 
@DMUA

Huesito is correct. I've said before but fodder like Touka Toudo with her Raikiri scale to about 7-C. And Raikiri literally could not even cut Ouma's skin.
 
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
Granted, his physical defensive ability, magic or not, is off the charts as far as the mages in the series go.
Click to expand...
Yeah, it would only scale to the likes of Ikki, Stella and the god tiers of the verse.
 
DMUA said:
When I say inconsistent, I mean inconsistent with the actual AP feats in the series

Kinda how like until recently, CW Flash was 7-C for KE, despite him being nowhere near that until like season 4 in any other department
Click to expand...
His tier from late season 2 onwards is Low 7-B right now, so not the best example
 
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
And to Touko with Takemikazuchi, even though it would be back scaling. Going from no damage to minor damage is a palpable difference.
Click to expand...
They even went out of their way to say "the damage was so little it couldn't even be called that". And we still don't know how strong Takemikazuchi is.

There is also the fact that even without this calc, with scaling alone the verse would to go about 7-B.
 
Question: Is there any proof that the character was moving at that speed at that very moment? Because that's the main issue with "calc stacking".
 
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