OPM Speed Buffs

[Golden_Void]

A quick thread dealing with all scaling using Melzargard. He's currently supersonic+, but must be upgraded.

He could strike Bang while weakened after focusing on offense instead of defense. He was on his last head at that moment, as well.

Earlier in the fight:

Bang was capable of appearing from off-screen to interrupt Melzargard's attack toward PPP at the beginning of this fight. Before Melzargard claimed he wasn't focusing on offense, he was providing Bang with narrow windows to dodge his strikes, and he claimed the fight wasn't difficult.

Iaian did not dodge Melzargard, and idk why that's in his profile. He clearly lost an arm, and Melzargard intentionally made himself weaker after the fact.

Other scaling:
According to ONE, the Subterranean King, Sky King, and Deep Sea King are all equal, meaning Melzargard blitzing Sky King would also scale him above hydrated Deep Sea King.
This also means that PPP got much faster since losing badly to DSK since he managed to hold his own and implemented attacking with blood lust.

Result:
Iaian would still scale, but he downscales from Melzargard since his reaction speed is worse. PPP, Bang, and anyone else that scales to them or could blitz Melzargard has grounds for high hypersonic scaling.

Groribas
Iaian
PPP
Genos (if he was upgraded between losing to DSK and the Alien arc)
Base Carnage Kabuto
Anyone else I'm missing

Current Scaling Argument:

Melzargard scales above Air King, who is comparable to the hydrated DSK according to ONE. I specify hydrated, because that is DSK's normal form. His form on dry land is a debuff, making hydrated his normal form which is obvious, considering he's a sea creature. Hydrated DSK was able to get within striking range of Sonic multiple times, forcing him to use substitution to escape his grasp. Melzargard blitzed Air King before he could form a thought, therefore there is no speed gap that allows Melzargard to be far slower than sonic and satisfy that plot element.

 

[Damage3245]

May be relevant; we have a speed calc for that feat that Iaian wasn't able to fully dodge.

 

[Golden_Void]

May be relevant; we have a speed calc for that feat that Iaian wasn't able to fully dodge.

Melzargard scaling to Bang and DSK would invalidate the calc. Also, Iaian getting off several slashes would scale somewhat to Melzargard, if not beyond his attack speed. His reaction speed is below Melzargard's attack speed.

 

[Engine]

Since ONE made the OVA S2 Bang and Atomic Samurai pretty much agreed that Melzargard was not much of a threat, Bang literally blitzed him.

 

[Golden_Void]

Since ONE made the OVA S2 Bang and Atomic Samurai pretty much agreed that Melzargard was not much of a threat, Bang literally blitzed him.

This ignores almost everything I typed and has nothing to do with the manga.

In terms of speed:

Bang > Alien Arc PPP >= Melzargard (who qualifies automatically by hitting Bang) >(blitz gap)> DSK/Sky King/Subterranean King > (blitz gap) > Pre-Alien Arc Genos/PPP

 

[Recon1511]

Iaian explicitly reacts and dodges Melzargard's attack, not fully of course but that blow was meant to destroy his torso, you can even see the motion lines in his body signalling he dodged to the right

Prior to this he also narrowly escapes having his head crushed, moving as Melzagard is mid-swing the anime even makes it more apparent

https://cdn.**********.com/attachments/918043603467632693/1346331919557591100/Melz_claps_Iai1.gif?ex=67c7cccf&is=67c67b4f&hm=fe5747a1ba70131c49b465adb82acfde0cf6521f305955883c1d89c8dd21211e&

For the other points, Melzagard is clearly being delusional about being able to beat the S Class Heroes and only got a lucky hit on a "rusty" Bang who was mid-air and with his back turned to him, he has no grounds to scale to any S Class at all.

 

[Golden_Void]

Iaian explicitly reacts and dodges Melzargard's attack, not fully of course but that blow was meant to destroy his torso, you can even see the motion lines in his body signalling he dodged to the right

Prior to this he also narrowly escapes having his head crushed, moving as Melzagard is mid-swing the anime even makes it more apparent

You don't dodge an attack while simultaneously losing an arm to said attack. Full stop.

For the other points, Melzagard is clearly being delusional about being able to beat the S Class Heroes and only got a lucky hit on a "rusty" Bang who was mid-air and with his back turned to him, he has no grounds to scale to any S Class at all.

The downplay of Melzargard striking Bang aside, he also clearly stated he's more effective when focusing on attacking than defending. He was getting jumped by the entire S-Class and getting his back taken the entire time.

DSK was already near-borderline Hypersonic+ in base and trounced PPP. He could easily fight Arms Mode Genos while hydrated. Melzargard blitzed someone on this level and managed to strike Bang and take Iaian's arm. He scales.

Sonic literally has the same speed rating for being able to outspeed hydrated DSK. Note that the gap between Sonic and DSK is far larger than the gap between Melzargard (before committing to offense) and pre-warmup Bang.

 

[Shadow_x007x]

I agree with Recon1511. He definitely wouldn't scale to an S-class. He attacked Bang when he wasn't ready and had his back turned. However, I have no problem scaling him to Deep Sea King.

 

[Recon1511]

You don't dodge an attack while simultaneously losing an arm to said attack. Full stop.

Alright, since you didn't address anything I said I will assume you are conceding you're wrong in this regard

The downplay of Melzargard striking Bang aside, he also clearly stated he's more effective when focusing on attacking than defending. He was getting jumped by the entire S-Class and getting his back taken the entire time.

Sure we can scale Melzagard to DSK, probably. Him being more effective when focusing on the offensive is irrelevant because again, he only got a hit on a rusty Bang who was mid-air and had his back turned to him.

Hell his statement about being more capable when going on the offensive and that he is now going to kill them all is completely nullified when Bang comes back 1 page later unscathed lol

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Iaian isn't that above in speed if his ass lost an entire arm, the would qualify for a "just barely" dodged

 

[Damage3245]

I agree more with Recon. Analysing his whole performance it's more likely he got in a surprise lucky hit that Bang wasn't expecting.

 

[Golden_Void]

I agree more with Recon. Analysing his whole performance it's more likely he got in a surprise lucky hit that Bang wasn't expecting.

How are you not expecting to get hit in the middle of combat?

Either way, I think people are getting way too caught up on the Bang point, which is additional evidence. The rest of the argument uses logic that two characters already receive their speed justifications from.

Alright, since you didn't address anything I said I will assume you are conceding you're wrong in this regard

False.

Hell his statement about being more capable when going on the offensive and that he is now going to kill them all is completely nullified when Bang comes back 1 page later unscathed lol

Power is irrelevant regarding speed. Even so, Melzargard focusing on offense then doesn't change the fact that he was dramatically weaker after losing 3 heads up to this point. Which goes back to.....

Sonic literally has the same speed rating for being able to outspeed hydrated DSK. Note that the gap between Sonic and DSK is far larger than the gap between Melzargard (before committing to offense) and pre-warmup Bang.

 

[Golden_Void]

bump

 

[Golden_Void]

BUMP

 

[Golden_Void]

Nobody disagrees with the speed so I will bump this for months if I must lol

 

[Golden_Void]

bump

 

[Golden_Void]

bump

 

[Golden_Void]

bump

 

[MrTayman616]

Bang > Alien Arc PPP >= Melzargard (who qualifies automatically by hitting Bang) >(blitz gap)> DSK/Sky King/Subterranean King > (blitz gap) > Pre-Alien Arc Genos/PPP

DSK isn't faster than Genos to the point of blitz (if anything, we saw Genos blitzing him). Genos let his guard down which led to him getting attacked.
Same for PPP too i guess as PPP was overpowered and couldn't attack because of DSK's strength rather than speed blitz.
Bang got hit because of being careless. I don't think it'd scale to him.

I agree that Melzargard is easily blitz level above DSK and other kings. also that PPP got faster and stronger.

 

[Golden_Void]

DSK isn't faster than Genos to the point of blitz (if anything, we saw Genos blitzing him). Genos let his guard down which led to him getting attacked.
Same for PPP too i guess as PPP was overpowered and couldn't attack because of DSK's strength rather than speed blitz.
Bang got hit because of being careless. I don't think it'd scale to him.

I agree that Melzargard is easily blitz level above DSK and other kings. also that PPP got faster and stronger.

I'd argue Genos caught DSK off-guard as well, considering he saw him coming at full-speed later.

DSK also forced sonic to use substitution, who is far above Genos in speed. Genos was a low difficulty fight for DSK. Not to mention he was reverting back to his base form due to fighting inside of the dome, meaning he was weaker when fighting Genos if anything.

PPP was facing DSK head-on, there's no excuse when DSK blocked PPP's consecutive punches head-on in base.

As far as the Bang comment, I think people are really reaching saying he was off-guard. He had knowledge of Melzargard's heads and knew there was still a head left. And there's plenty of scenes where people are getting attacked and notice at the last second and still dodge. Garou was capable of fighting and dodging while unconscious, and it took several monsterizations for him to be comparable to Bang in skill. That's an insane cop-out for Bang and idk why. Melzargard himself even stated that it's easier for him to land blows when he focuses on offense, meaning he was fighting defensively the entire battle, which is the exact reasoning we use to scale Melzargard to Bang on Boros's profile.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Bump

 

[Golden_Void]

Bump

 

[Golden_Void]

Bruh why can't things ever be straightforward...

 

[Golden_Void]

bump

 

[Golden_Void]

bump

 

[Golden_Void]

bump

 

[Kachon123]

I definitely agree with Recon on the Iaian point. @Golden_Void you didn't really address it but how do you reason Iaian being capable of dodging an attack from Melzalgard from behind based on purely intent and then following up with attack that couldn't be reacted to or avoided?

Like Recon said, the attack that took Iaian's arm was aimed toward his torso and was quite wide, making it difficult for anyone in his situation to fully avoid the attack. Despite that Iaian was able to avoid instant death and was fully capable of seeing it approaching him to react. On top of the path and size of the attack, another thing that made the attack land on Iaian was the sheer amount of power of behind it. No matter how you look at it, it's obvious that Iaian was shocked by Melz' power.

The first thing Iaian noted was its lethality (having taken off his arm) rather than speed like what would normally happen in a situation where someone you could easily dodge and land attacks on moments prior suddenly became fast enough to near-blitz you.

This is again supported when Iaian specifically mentioned the power behind Melzalgard's attacks while being fully capable of reacting before it landed on Pri-Pri Prisoner, even telling him to dodge the attack (which implies he'd be able to in the same same situation now knowing the power behind it). When Bang got hit, Iaian again mentioned the fact that getting hit directly was the worst thing that possibly could've happened as he clutched his (lack of an) arm.


I also disagree with scaling Melzalgard to Bang's speed or the speed of any S-Class Hero in any way. It should be obvious as to why.

Scaling Melzalgard to Deep Sea King should be fine.

 

[Golden_Void]

I definitely agree with Recon on the Iaian point. @Golden_Void you didn't really address it but how do you reason Iaian being capable of dodging an attack from Melzalgard from behind based on purely intent and then following up with attack that couldn't be reacted to or avoided?

Separated heads Melz is drastically weaker than combined heads Melz. He had no reaction to Iaian but was impressed by AS's speed. And as he said, he was focused on defense so he's not operating at his peak here.

Like Recon said, the attack that took Iaian's arm was aimed toward his torso and was quite wide, making it difficult for anyone in his situation to fully avoid the attack. Despite that Iaian was able to avoid instant death and was fully capable of seeing it approaching him to react. On top of the path and size of the attack, another thing that made the attack land on Iaian was the sheer amount of power of behind it. No matter how you look at it, it's obvious that Iaian was shocked by Melz' power.

Judging by the impact on the buildings, Iaian avoided being cratered by inches, making Melz very relative. Of course, losing an arm factually means he didn't avoid the attack even if he avoided most of it.

The first thing Iaian noted was its lethality (having taken off his arm) rather than speed like what would normally happen in a situation where someone you could easily dodge and land attacks on moments prior suddenly became fast enough to near-blitz you.

He also had a look of fear on his face when the attack was approaching. Since he had no knowledge on the potency of Melz's attack until he observed the damage that it caused, this was purely a reaction to his speed. Had he been able to tell the strength of the attack prior to it landing, his statement of its lethality should not have been a surprise warranting a redundant statement.

This is again supported when Iaian specifically mentioned the power behind Melzalgard's attacks while being fully capable of reacting before it landed on Pri-Pri Prisoner, even telling him to dodge the attack (which implies he'd be able to in the same same situation now knowing the power behind it). When Bang got hit, Iaian again mentioned the fact that getting hit directly was the worst thing that possibly could've happened as he clutched his (lack of an) arm.

Replied above

I also disagree with scaling Melzalgard to Bang's speed or the speed of any S-Class Hero in any way. It should be obvious as to why.

"Combining 5 heads and personalities into one, this Melzargard's ultimate form. Its power, speed, and intelligence are all dramatically increased."

Iaian can't possibly be thought to be faster than Melz based on his statement telling PPP to dodge when he lost an arm to Melz with no combined heads employing a defensive strategy. He would get blitzed. Melz also wasn't focusing on offense as he stated. He tagged Bang with only one remaining head after changing his strategy. Melz would be dramatically weaker here, far below Iaian, at levels so low you'd be better off arguing this was an anti-feat for Bang than saying he was caught off-guard.
Bang intercepting Melz's punch against PPP isn't concrete enough because we don't know where he was or if he was already in motion prior to the attack.

Scaling Melzalgard to Deep Sea King should be fine.

He scales far above him already. I'm proposing he's comparable to Sonic who outsped DSK's reactions.

 

[Recon1511]

He wasn't on the defensive against Iaian, that was against the S Class Heroes as all of them ganged up on him.

It doesn't matter anyway because going on the offensive didn't change anything and he was completely wrong as Bang just shrugged off Melz attack after he was done yapping that their bodies were fragile lol

 

[Golden_Void]

He wasn't on the defensive against Iaian, that was against the S Class Heroes as all of them ganged up on him.

He also wasn't on the offensive because he was in his base form.

It doesn't matter anyway because going on the offensive didn't change anything and he was completely wrong as Bang just shrugged off Melz attack after he was done yapping that their bodies were fragile lol

Bang got dramatically stronger and Melz was dramatically weaker so getting clapped was bound to happen lol

 

[Kachon123]

Separated heads Melz is drastically weaker than combined heads Melz. He had no reaction to Iaian but was impressed by AS's speed. And as he said, he was focused on defense so he's not operating at his peak here.

When was he impressed by Atomic Samurai's speed any more than he was Iaian's? When did he say he was focused on defense??? Which translation/version of the manga are you reading from?

Judging by the impact on the buildings, Iaian avoided being cratered by inches, making Melz very relative. Of course, losing an arm factually means he didn't avoid the attack even if he avoided most of it.

You didn't even answer my question or attack my point. You just brought up a new one. Judging by the impact on the building, it was an extremely powerful and wide attack, one that Iaian didn't expect.

He also had a look of fear on his face when the attack was approaching. Since he had no knowledge on the potency of Melz's attack until he observed the damage that it caused, this was purely a reaction to his speed. Had he been able to tell the strength of the attack prior to it landing, his statement of its lethality should not have been a surprise warranting a redundant statement.

How is calling it lethal a redundant statement? From Iaian's first reaction to the attack to him admitting he can't win was one sequence. It's one extended reaction. I'm not sure why you're trying to separate them like they are two different scenes.

He scales far above him already. I'm proposing he's comparable to Sonic who outsped DSK's reactions.

75 an 50 are both numbers above 25. That does not make 50 comparable to 70.

 

[Golden_Void]

When was he impressed by Atomic Samurai's speed any more than he was Iaian's? When did he say he was focused on defense??? Which translation/version of the manga are you reading from?

Melz literally had no reaction to being sliced up and intentionally made himself weaker after seeing what its punch did to him. AS sliced him to ribbons and he was surprised there was a lifeform that could fight him.

You didn't even answer my question or attack my point. You just brought up a new one. Judging by the impact on the building, it was an extremely powerful and wide attack, one that Iaian didn't expect.

I did, maybe you just don't want to accept it. You mention the width of Melz's attack, and I stated that based on the building's damage relative to Iaian's position, his torso missed it by inches. Saying he saw the attack coming and narrowly dodged it is a false statement. He saw it coming and avoided the majority of the attack, but not all of it. And Melz isn't even close to full power here so the speed gap isn't really a question.

How is calling it lethal a redundant statement? From Iaian's first reaction to the attack to him admitting he can't win was one sequence. It's one extended reaction. I'm not sure why you're trying to separate them like they are two different scenes.

Because Iaian was shocked at the incoming attack to begin with and even more shocked after seeing the damage it was capable of. Iaian obviously can't sense the power behind an attack which is why he was well-informed after the attack to know what would've happened if it landed and was able to inform PPP.

75 an 50 are both numbers above 25. That does not make 50 comparable to 70.

Hydrated DSK was able to get within striking range of Sonic several times, who was forced to use substitution when caught. Melz diced the Air King before he could react or develop a thought. There is no speed multiplier that satisfies that plot element and has Melz far slower than Sonic at the same time.

And Melz being on the defensive was a thing since it killed the Air King since it's priority was protecting the ship. Outside of that statement, you can physically discern as much as Melz with one head focusing on offense is a tank compared to the form Iaian fought.

 

[Golden_Void]

buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuumpppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppp

 

[Golden_Void]

bump

 

[Golden_Void]

Month ? of staff neglecting me

 

[FinePoint]

Month ? of staff neglecting me

You should probably message them directly.

 

[Golden_Void]

You should probably message them directly.

I did, several times. While they're active in threads far younger than this.

 

[Golden_Void]

bump

 

[Golden_Void]

.............................................................bump

 

[Golden_Void]

bump