OPM revisions/potential new calcs

[Kachon123]

No. Like I said, ask calc requests or someone on the discussion thread.

Ok.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Unfortunately Tatsumaki's Spear Feat would yield vastly lower results than what she currently has.

If I recall, it yielded like High 7-A and Class T. So at best it's supporting evidence I suppose.

I'll give more input later on the other stuff

 

[Kachon123]

High 7-A

It was 6-C

 

[Tetsucabrah]

There might be something there with the Iaian thing.
Disagree with the Puri thing.
Disagree with Death Gatling.
Child Emperor is massively hypersonic yet Zombieman reacted faster than him to protect him from Homeless Emperor. He should scale.
Agree with the Orochi thing.

Not a calc guy so I can't comment on those.

 

[Tetsucabrah]

Isaiah scaling to MHS creates circular scaling. That would cause guys like the Rhino guy to become MHS, who's clearly below dragon level

I do think he got stronger as the arc went on.
What about giving him an "Up to MHS" rating? That way none of the demons get to scale.

 

[ImposingTiger]

About Iaian:

The bullets don't have to hit him directly. He could have just tanked a portion of the shockwave, especially since he doesn't know what kind of attack has been fired.

Tbh, Melzalgard's speed is absurdly low compared to his attack potency.

Homeless Emperor's energy orbs vary in power, and so should in speed, as seen in his fight against Zombieman. Since he was trying to kill them at a comfortable rythm, we can't really scale Iaian to HE's speed.

About Puri:

Actually, the attack he reacted to was a way stronger and faster attack than Iaian's, because his five heads are merged instead of spearated. However that's it, reaction speed. His movement speed is clearly much lower, given that he was unable to move an inch before the attack reached him.

Not sure if he's fully blocking Melzalgard's attacks in this scene. Besides, base Bang was hurt by an attack from Melzalgard using a single head (confirmed in an OVA), and this is two heads Melzalgard we are talking about. Since Bang is much stronger than Puri, I don't think he should scale.

About Death Gatling:

Agree, because I don't fully like ByAsura's weakness to sharp objects.

About Zombieman:

Agree, because he was faster than Child Emperor, who could dodge attacks from Evil Natural Water, which were giving Iaian, Bushidrill and Okamaitachi a hard time.

About Orochi:

Agreed, seems pretty straight forward.

About calculations:

I doubt AS, Genos' explosions and Homeless Emperor's calcs will give us better results, so it's useless.

Choze and Suiryu may be interesting to discuss.

Tatsumaki's spear is clearly an exageration. There is no way it is the size of a contient and it is contradicted in every single panel of the war.

 

[ByAsura]

Agree, because I don't fully like ByAsura's weakness to sharp objects.

Whether you agree or disagree if it's just a general weakness like the last thread, he's literally being harmed by arrows (ones that bounce off Wild Horn) and revolvers from C & B-Classes, and Stinger's Bamboo Spear in this chapter.

 

[ImposingTiger]

Whether you agree or disagree if it's just a general weakness like the last thread, he's literally being harmed by arrows (ones that bounce off Wild Horn) and revolvers from C & B-Classes, and Stinger's Bamboo Spear in this chapter.

I am aware they are harming Garou, but I don't see why it is contradictory. After all, hero classes are not only decided by AP but also by popularity and efectiveness on erradicating monsters. Since it is more of a global thing, they could have Garou-level AP and stats which are much lower (speed, durability, hax...), which prevent them from beating stronger monsters or being in upper classes.

About the arrows piercing Garou but not Wild Horn, it can be due to the poison they carry, which affect only human bodies and not mechanical armors. Also, the arrows seem to be broken in half, so they might have not fallen straight, as we don't see them impacting. That, or Wild Horn just has higher dura than Garou, but remains in B class because his speed is absurdly low compared to his other stats, and thus loses against faster monsters, even if they are weaker in pure strength.

 

[Kachon123]

Besides, base Bang was hurt by an attack from Melzalgard using a single head (confirmed in an OVA), and this is two heads Melzalgard we are talking about. Since Bang is much stronger than Puri, I don't think he should scale.

Bang was hurt by Melz' attack when he combined 4 of his tentacles. Compared to PPP deflecting single tentacles

 

[ByAsura]

I am aware they are harming Garou, but I don't see why it is contradictory. After all, hero classes are not only decided by AP but also by popularity and efectiveness on erradicating monsters.

It’s a C-Class firing an arrow that can’t harm a B-Class who’s been curbstomped by Demon levels. It’s obviously contradictory.

Since it is more of a global thing, they could have Garou-level AP and stats which are much lower (speed, durability, hax...), which prevent them from beating stronger monsters or being in upper classes.

They obviously don’t because, even in a weakened state, he curbstomped all of them. You could make an argument for the revolver guy, but Stinger uses a spear and Shooter uses a normal bow.

Honestly, what’s more logical, that Garou has a moderate vulnerability to sharp objects, or that the HA have low ranking C-Class with Garou level AP that we never even hear about?

About the arrows piercing Garou but not Wild Horn, it can be due to the poison they carry, which affect only human bodies and not mechanical armors.

That’s by far the worst logic I’ve ever heard. Poison doesn’t work that way. It just poisons Garou after piercing his skin.

Also, the arrows seem to be broken in half, so they might have not fallen straight, as we don't see them impacting.

There’s at least a few that fall straight, and all of Shooter’s arrows fall straight in every instance. Plus, they could very easily be snapping because, you know, they’re broken by the armour.

That, or Wild Horn just has higher dura than Garou, but remains in B class because his speed is absurdly low compared to his other stats, and thus loses against faster monsters, even if they are weaker in pure strength.

He got curbstomped by a Demon level and Garou himself. He’s neither strong, nor fast, nor durable (relative to S-Class, anyway).

 

[ImposingTiger]

Bang was hurt by Melz' attack when he combined 4 of his tentacles. Compared to PPP deflecting single tentacles

Why would his single tentacles be dragon level tho?

 

[Kachon123]

Why would his single tentacles be dragon level tho?

Why wouldn't it? It's an attack from a Dragon lvl threat. Why wouldn't his attack be low 7-B?

 

[ImposingTiger]

It’s a C-Class firing an arrow that can’t harm a B-Class who’s been curbstomped by Demon levels. It’s obviously contradictory.

He got curbstomped by a Demon level.

If you are talking about Scaledon, we don't see what happened. Wild Horn doesn't even take damage. That could be because of two reasons:

1-because he is eaten before he can even react, given that Scaledon is much faster than him.

2- Wild Horn didn't want to attack because his mates were inside the monster and he would kill them. He is the last one eaten, so it makes sense. Besides, they were explicitly asked not to kill the monster, so it wouldn't make sense for Wild Horn to try to attack Scaledon.

That’s by far the worst logic I’ve ever heard. Poison doesn’t work that way.

Yeah, I was laughing at my argument too. Sorry for that.

There’s a few that fall straight. Plus, they could very easily be snapping because, you know, they’re broken by the armour.

We don't see it, so it is unknown. And even if they were broken by the armour, Wild Horn could just be that durable and nothing would contradict it.

They obviously don’t because, even in a weakened state, he curbstomped all of them. You could make an argument for the revolver guy, but Stinger uses a spear and Shooter uses a normal bow.

It could just be speed tbh. And yes, they are likely glass cannons. Characters in OPM who use weapons are usually able to damage or kill opponents who can damage or kill them, even if they are casual weapons like swords. For example, Atomic Samurai cut a fusion of Black Sperm who was going to kill him right before Tatsumaki saved him. Flashy Flash one shot both dragon level with Instakill, when his body was harmed by them, etc.

I know it's hard to believe that some lower class heroes are actually that strong, but it is consistent with the following fight we see against Genos, Garou being the same version or even weaker, yet able to tank blows from several S class characters (two of them were likely suppressed).

What I don't like is Garou having a piercing damage weakness when every other character in the verse hasn't that justification, especially when there are arguments that can be made to logically put every piece where it should be, without creating contradictions. Garou is a super durable trained and endurance based human fighter who shouldn't be treated differently.

 

[Quangotjokes]

Ppp gets a lot of downplay

 

[ImposingTiger]

Why wouldn't it? It's an attack from a Dragon lvl threat. Why wouldn't his attack be low 7-B?

Because he isn't concentrating all his power into it, but dividing it. It's like if Fuhrer Ugly is treated as Low 5-B because he overwhelmed a weakened version of Tatsumaki, whose output at that moment was much weaker than what she is actually capable of.

 

[LordTracer]

Honestly, what’s more logical, that Garou has a moderate vulnerability to sharp objects, or that the HA have low ranking C-Class with Garou level AP that we never even hear about?

Or it’s just piercing damage being piercing damage and it’s not a weakness specific to Garou

 

[Kachon123]

Because he isn't concentrating all his power into it, but dividing it. It's like if Fuhrer Ugly is treated as Low 5-B because he overwhelmed a weakened version of Tatsumaki, whose output at that moment was much weaker than what she is actually capable of.

It's not the same at all. He doesn't need to concentrate all of his power into one attack to be Low 7-B. He's stronger than his individual forms, which already scale far above Royal Ripper, who is low 7-B. I don't see any reason why he would be weaker than RR.

 

[ByAsura]

If you are talking about Scaledon, we don't see what happened. Wild Horn doesn't even take damage. That could be because of two reasons:

1-because he is eaten before he can even react, given that Scaledon is much faster than him.

2- Wild Horn didn't want to attack because his mates were inside the monster and he would kill them. He is the last one eaten, so it makes sense. Besides, they were explicitly asked not to kill the monster, so it wouldn't make sense for Wild Horn to try to attack Scaledon.

It’s true he wasn’t hurt, but he was about to use it before, and nobody’s attacks did anything. They were presented as being overpowered easily.

We have absolutely no reason to believe this guy is S-Class material because he withstood arrows from a C-Class.

We don't see it, so it is unknown.

It’s not really unknown. His arrows are perfectly straight every time. We have no reason to believe this instance is different.

And even if they were broken by the armour, Wild Horn could just be that durable and nothing would contradict it.

Which is never mentioned or alluded to, and doesn’t really make sense in the story.

It could just be speed tbh.

It’s not speed. Garou punches Shooter with enough force to put impact craters into his body.

And yes, they are likely glass cannons. Characters in OPM who use weapons are usually able to damage or kill opponents who can damage or kill them, even if they are casual weapons like swords. For example, Atomic Samurai cut a fusion of Black Sperm who was going to kill him right before Tatsumaki saved him. Flashy Flash one shot both dragon level with Instakill, when his body was harmed by them, etc.

Atomic Samurai uses a metal sword that’s far more durable than Iaian, and Black Sperm’s regular fusions aren’t very durable. Like, yeah, they are glass cannons, but only in the sense that spears and bows are designed to kill people. Stinger’s Bamboo Spear does not scale to Garou.

I know it's hard to believe that some lower class heroes are actually that strong, but it is consistent with the following fight we see against Genos, Garou being the same version or even weaker, yet able to tank blows from several S class characters (two of them were likely suppressed).

It’s not consistent, and literally everything in the manga makes us believe otherwise.

What I don't like is Garou having a piercing damage weakness when every other character in the verse hasn't that justification, especially when there are arguments that can be made to logically put every piece where it should be, without creating contradictions. Garou is a super durable trained and endurance based human fighter who shouldn't be treated differently.

Who doesn’t? The only character that’s isn’t the case for are some Monsters, Darkshine, Saitama and Genos to my knowledge.

Also, like I said, it’s way more reasonable that the guy who’s been hurt by sharp objects so many times is vulnerable to sharp objects (or at least we can use piercings damage logic without AP for the characters) rather than low grade heroes who get curbstomped by Tigers and Demons scaling to people way above Deep Sea King.

I get your arguments that statistics can be lopsided, but it doesn’t even fit for many of the characters involved, and they’d almost certainly be A-Class if they can even somewhat trade blows with Demons.

 

[ImposingTiger]

It's not the same at all. He doesn't need to concentrate all of his power into one attack to be Low 7-B. He's stronger than his individual forms, which already scale far above Royal Ripper, who is low 7-B. I don't see any reason why he would be weaker than RR.

Well, he does, because we rate character's maximum output, not a fraction of it. Even if it's a two head fusion, there are several tentacles so the force is being divided several times, to an unknown extent. For all we know, his one headed focused attack is stronger than his two headed divided attacks, because it was able to make damage to Bang, who is much stronger than the PPP who "tanked" those attacks. If we saw 2 headed Melzalgard attack focusing his strength in one tentacle, then I would agree.

Moreover, do you call that "tank"? It is more like blocking from the side, he doesn't stop it head on, so the force would be even more divided.

 

[ImposingTiger]

It’s true he wasn’t hurt, but he was about to use it before, and nobody’s attacks did anything. They were presented as being overpowered easily.

Because, you know, Wild Horn was blitzed or he had to be cautious not to kill his team.

We have absolutely no reason to believe this guy is S-Class material because he withstood arrows from a C-Class.

A C class who could damage Garou, who later in the fight tanked a machine gun blow from Post Superfight Genos.

Which is never mentioned or alluded to, and doesn’t really make sense in the story.

Doesn't need to be mentioned or alluded to make sense within the story.

Atomic Samurai uses a metal sword that’s far more durable than Iaian, and Black Sperm’s regular fusions aren’t very durable. Like, yeah, they are glass cannons, but only in the sense that spears and bows are designed to kill people. Stinger’s Bamboo Spear does not scale to Garou.

If metal swords in OPM verse can be that durable, why can't bamboo spears be that durable, why can't bows and arrows be more developed than they are IRL? If Stinger does harm harm, he should scale, especially since he is one shoting several Tiger level monsters with said spear.

Could you show me evidence that Black Sperm fusions have lower durability than their AP? Can you debunk that FF one shot two characters who were able to make him cough up blood? Remember that Instakill was broken by rubble. It likely isn't as durable as AS's sword.

It’s not speed. Garou punches Shooter with enough force to put impact craters into his body.

What are you referencing?

It’s not consistent, and literally everything in the manga makes us believe otherwise.

It's not good to let ourselves be guided by sensations rather than logic. The fact that hero ratings are not decided by solely AP, already gives this verse rich scaling possibilities, such as these ones.

Who doesn’t? The only character that’s isn’t the case for are some Monsters, Darkshine, Saitama and Genos to my knowledge.

Eh, literally no one has that as a weakness in their profile.

Also, like I said, it’s way more reasonable that the guy who’s been hurt by sharp objects so many times is vulnerable to sharp objects (or at least we can use piercings damage logic without AP for the characters) rather than low grade heroes who get curbstomped by Tigers and Demons scaling to people way above Deep Sea King.

He's been hurt many times by sharp objects because he is the guy who has fought more weapon based characters in the entire manga, so by statistics it's natural. Those heroes haven't been curbstomped by Tigers and Demons, or at least their attacks with weapons haven't, which are the only things that scale to Garou here.

I get your arguments that statistics can be lopsided, but it doesn’t even fit for many of the characters involved, and they’d almost certainly be A-Class if they can even somewhat trade blows with Demons.

Then let's go over every character involved and see if there's any contradictions. As I said, they could be out of the A class because of low durability or speed, meaning they are basically useless in individual fights against Demon levels.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

What I don't like is Garou having a piercing damage weakness when every other character in the verse hasn't that justification

• Pummels Tanktop Master with ease and proceeds to be slashed and stabbed by Golden Ball and Spring Mustachio
• Gets shot by Gun Gun, punctured by arrows, and is bloodied by bullets before taking Machine Gun Blows from Genos
• Bullies Royal Ripper and counters Bug God, grows stronger, and then gets cut by Royal Ripper later
• Endures being crushed and scorched by Orochi and counters his tendrils, but it instantly put down when he gets stabbed by them

Death Gatling is definitely not S-Class level with a machine gun. Garou is just human.

 

[ImposingTiger]

Pummels Tanktop Master with ease and proceeds to be slashed and stabbed by Golden Ball and Spring Mustachio

That just means TTM can be damaged by GB and SM as well. Their durability and speed is what prevents them from being on the S class. Ninchirin even comments on SM's Tomboy, which is far stronger than the level Mustachio is being portrayed at, by HA standards.

Gets shot by Gun Gun, punctured by arrows, and is bloodied by bullets before taking Machine Gun Blows from Genos

Literally the same as before, and what I've been arguing with ByAsura for hours.

Bullies Royal Ripper and counters Bug God, grows stronger, and then gets cut by Royal Ripper later

He never tanked RR's slashes, in fact they almost killed him. He was only able to redirect the attacks, so RR piercing him even after Garou has gotten stronger still makes sense.

Endures being crushed and scorched by Orochi and counters his tendrils, but it instantly put down when he gets stabbed by them

Gyoro Gyoro told Orochi not to kill Garou, because he was already pressuring him too much. He resists being scorched and counters his trendils after having grown stronger, he was put down and stabbed before evolving. Besides, Garou has shown the ability to redirect attacks that can pierce him, like Royal Ripper's. I don't see the point here.

 

[ByAsura]

Because, you know, Wild Horn was blitzed or he had to be cautious not to kill his team.

Whatever man. Keep dreaming.

A C class who could damage Garou, who later in the fight tanked a machine gun blow from Post Superfight Genos.

The C Class who was obliterated by Garou, and uses his physical strength to fire bows.

Doesn't need to be mentioned or alluded to make sense within the story.

They absolutely do.

If metal swords in OPM verse can be that durable, why can't bamboo spears be that durable, why can't bows and arrows be more developed than they are IRL? If Stinger does harm harm, he should scale, especially since he is one shoting several Tiger level monsters with said spear.

Atomic Samurai's Sword =/= Stinger's Bamboo Spear.

He's an A-Class hero whose ranking means he can automatically do that.

Could you show me evidence that Black Sperm fusions have lower durability than their AP?

Because Black Sperm in general has lower AP. Also, a very large fusion gets obliterated by Genos with his normal series of blasts.

Can you debunk that FF one shot two characters who were able to make him cough up blood? Remember that Instakill was broken by rubble. It likely isn't as durable as AS's sword.

With his Ultimate Technique.

Also, I think it was broken when Tats pulled the MA base out.

Edit: It was.

What are you referencing?

You tried to explain away Garou curbstomping the heroes with 'it could just be speed.' It's not speed, it's generally just strength.

Edit: Never mind, you were referring to lopsided statistics. I was just confused because it was in the same paragraph.

It's not good to let ourselves be guided by sensations rather than logic.

Then stop making up that featless heroes are on par with very high level Demons.

The fact that hero ratings are not decided by solely AP, already gives this verse rich scaling possibilities, such as these ones.

My guy, these are people with bows.

Eh, literally no one has that as a weakness in their profile.

Which doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Clearly you're going very off profile with some of these beliefs.

He's been hurt many times by sharp objects because he is the guy who has fought more weapon based characters in the entire manga, so by statistics it's natural. Those heroes haven't been curbstomped by Tigers and Demons, or at least their attacks with weapons haven't, which are the only things that scale to Garou here.

Death Gatling's attacks were ineffective against Hundred-Eyes Octopus, whom he could only hurt by aiming for the eyes. And you can't tell me that Octopus is super durable because part of monster rankings is difficulty of extermination.

As I said, they could be out of the A class because of low durability or speed, meaning they are basically useless in individual fights against Demon levels.

Could be is the operative word. You have no proof.

That just means TTM can be damaged by GB and SM as well. Their durability and speed is what prevents them from being on the S class.

GB's attacks were stopped sideways by Kombu Infinity. This is what I meant by Tiger level before.

Also, he uses a relatively normal sling with drawback force high enough to make his hands shudder. It's going to be somewhat comparable to his physical strength just by what we see alone, and he was effortlessly overpowered by Garou and Kombu.

Ninchirin even comments on SM's Tomboy, which is far stronger than the level Mustachio is being portrayed at, by HA standards.

Spring doesn't even need Tomboy to cut Garou. My guy can do that just by falling, and this blade was broken by Kombu Infinity.

He never tanked RR's slashes, in fact they almost killed him. He was only able to redirect the attacks, so RR piercing him even after Garou has gotten stronger still makes sense.

So RR's weapons, like every bladed weapon apparently, can just harm people with durability high enough to one-shot.

Besides, Garou has shown the ability to redirect attacks that can pierce him, like Royal Ripper's. I don't see the point here.

This is non-sense. You're arguing that Garou at his peak can be pierced by Royal Ripper, but now he can also redirect blades? It's obvious he's going for a part of the blade that's not sharp, just like he does against GB's projectiles.

 

[Quangotjokes]

Garou didn't fall into tomboy, it just pierced his hand when extending.

 

[ByAsura]

He would have pierced his hand before it extended, because Tomboy creates the blast by extending.

 

[ImposingTiger]

Whatever man. Keep dreaming.

Good reasoning.

The C Class who was obliterated by Garou, and uses his physical strength to fire bows.

A bow likely much stronger than irl bows, which can kill normal people if the arrow hits them. Even irl he would be a glass cannon.

Atomic Samurai's Sword =/= Stinger's Bamboo Spear.

Of course, AS is stronger. This doesn't mean Bamboo Spear is as weak as literal bamboo given that weapons in OPM are much more developed.

Also, a very large fusion gets obliterated by Genos with his normal series of blasts.

Why does that mean he's a glass cannon? Did this same BS harm Genos?

He's an A-Class hero who's ranking means he can automatically do that.

A class heroes have struggled against Tigers before.

With his Ultimate Technique.

And? It is literally him attacking stronger/faster than before. Doesn't change the fact he was damaged, his Ultimate Technique isn't magically going to make him more durable.

Death Gatling's attacks were ineffective against Hundred-Eyes Octopus, whom he could only hurt by aiming for the eyes. And you can't tell me that Octopus is super durable because part of monster rankings is difficulty of extermination.

Why can't that mean HEO is more durable than Garou? It's only been harmed by FF and Tatsumaki after all.

Could be is the operative word. You have no proof.

You have no proof either that Garou has a weakness against sharp objects.

GB's attacks were stopped sideways by Kombu Infinity

KI deflected it, just as Garou did.

Also, he uses a relatively normal sling with drawback force high enough to make his hands shudder. It's going to be somewhat comparable to his physical strength just by what we see alone, and he was effortlessly overpowered by Garou and Kombu.

If they were only balls, I would agree, but they also have blades, which makes GB not scale to his own attacks.

Spring doesn't even need Tomboy to cut Garou. My guy can do that just by falling, and this blade was broken by Kombu Infinity.

We literally see SM is using Tomboy to hurt Garou. What are you talking about?

So RR's weapons, like every bladed weapon apparently, can just harm people with durability high enough to one-shot.

In most cases, yes.

This is non-sense. You're arguing that Garou at his peak can be pierced by Royal Ripper, but now he can also redirect blades? It's obvious he's going for a part of the blade that's not sharp, just like he does against GB's projectiles.

I don't get what we are really arguing here, so I'll wait.

 

[ByAsura]

A bow likely much stronger than irl bows, which can kill normal people if the arrow hits them. Even irl he would be a glass cannon.

It's a bow. We don't see anything different except wood and a string that requires drawback force. Even if it were made of unobtanium, it's going to require physical strength.

Of course, AS is stronger. This doesn't mean Bamboo Spear is as weak as literal bamboo given that weapons in OPM are much more developed.

Even if they're more durable, they're not really stronger because it's a spear that requires physical strength. It's like trying to drive a steel nail into concrete—you can, but it requires force.

Why does that mean he's a glass cannon? Did this same BS harm Genos?

Smaller ones have.

A class heroes have struggled against Tigers before.

High level Tigers. Stinger, as you said, can one-shot Tigers.

And? It is literally him attacking stronger/faster than before. Doesn't change the fact he was damaged, his Ultimate Technique isn't magically going to make him more durable.

It's going to make him stronger. That's the point.

Why can't that mean HEO is more durable than Garou? It's only been harmed by FF and Tatsumaki after all.

Given that Garou is superior to TTM, who's withstood attacks from Dragon levels like Gums, and that extermination of a threat is a factor in the Mysterious beings' rankings, it's highly unlikely HEO is far superior.

Plus, it's not on our profiles, and HEO is a mostly featless Demon level.

You have no proof either that Garou has a weakness against sharp objects.

Except literally what happens in the manga. So far, you don't have proof, you have excuses that rely on gigantic assumptions.

KI deflected it, just as Garou did.

Deflected it right on the sharp edge, whereas Garou went for the back.

If they were only balls, I would agree, but they also have blades, which makes GB not scale to his own attacks.

You're completely wrong here due to how force and energy work, but if we're using this same reasoning, we might as well not upscale DG to Small City level because it's just piercing damage.

We literally see SM is using Tomboy to hurt Garou. What are you talking about?

He doesn't use successfully Tomboy. He tries to use Tomboy and fails because Garou pierces his hand on the sword before the attack can hit him.

In most cases, yes.

And yet they can't harm Bug God. But I guess Bug God's durability is infinitely superior to Half-Human Garou.

I don't get what we are really arguing here, so I'll wait.

I'm arguing that you're contradicting your own argument.

 

[ImposingTiger]

It's a bow. We don't see anything different except wood and a string that requires drawback force. Even if it were made of unobtanium, it's going to require physical strength.

Even if they're more durable, they're not really stronger because it's a spear that requires physical strength. It's like trying to drive a steel nail into concrete—you can, but it requires force.

This doesn't work because weapons in OPM are much stronger irl for whatever reason. Metal or steel swords can't be city level durable, but they are.

Smaller ones have.

Smaller ones doesn't mean weaker ones, because they can be fusions. Smaller clones rip Genos' arm off but bigger ones can't bother him even sneak attacking. If size determined strength, PS would be weaker than GS, and GS would be weaker than some aggregations Genos has fought. Size doesn't mean much, especially since a 100 detached force and a 2500-10000 look exactly the same.

It's going to make him stronger. That's the point.

It doesn't make him more durable, does it?

Given that Garou is superior to TTM, who's withstood attacks from Dragon levels like Gums, and that extermination of a threat is a factor in the Mysterious beings' rankings, it's highly unlikely HEO is far superior.

HEO lacked aggressiveness (when the threat level was assigned) and intelligence, as well as other factors.

Deflected it right on the sharp edge

You don't see that. Have you got extrasensory perception like Orochi?

Except literally what happens in the manga. So far, you don't have proof, you have excuses that rely on gigantic assumptions.

Saying Garou, out of all characters, has a weakness to sharp objects, is the most gigantic assumption I've ever heard.

He doesn't use successfully Tomboy. He tries to use Tomboy and fails because Garou pierces his hand on the sword before the attack can hit him.

Tomboy is already charging by the time Garou is falling, so of course it hits him.

And yet they can't harm Bug God. But I guess Bug God's durability is infinitely superior to Half-Human Garou.

Exactly, it is.

 

[ByAsura]

This doesn't work because weapons in OPM are much stronger irl for whatever reason. Metal or steel swords can't be city level durable, but they are.

They're durable. Whatever, this argument still doesn't really work because it'd scale to strength unless we have a reason to believe it doesn't, which even the manga and Encyclopaedia don't give.

As for metal and steel swords being City level, this is a universe with explicitly durable materials. This isn't a universe where we're told that wooden bows are a billion times better than the character wielding them.

Smaller ones doesn't mean weaker ones, because they can be fusions. Smaller clones rip Genos' arm off but bigger ones can't bother him even sneak attacking.

These were explicitly smaller leftovers with individuality. Some (that's assuming just these ones) are even individual clones that can't regenerate.

It doesn't make him more durable, does it?

Firstly, the premise of your argument doesn't even work because rocks didn't snap it. So there's not even any point.

Secondly... I genuinely can't even remember what we were arguing about here? What was the point again? That the swords aren't particularly durable? Doesn't this kind of kill a huge portion of your argument above?

HEO lacked aggressiveness (when the threat level was assigned) and intelligence, as well as other factors.

Intelligence isn't a stated factor. Destructive levels and difficulty to kill are. In fact, Demon levels shown to be lacking in certain factors like durability have been assigned that tier.

As for aggressiveness, I could strongly argue against that. It was constricting and obliterating buildings. To the hero association, this could easily mean it's aggressive.

You don't see that. Have you got extrasensory perception like Orochi?

She's hitting it sideways with a piece of kombu that's much larger than the projectile and diverts it completely off course, so she's interacting with the projectile with greater force. I don't have extrasensory perception, just an ounce (as miniscule as it is) of common sense.

Saying Garou, out of all characters, has a weakness to sharp objects, is the most gigantic assumption I've ever heard.

Saying that every hero who's ever hurt him is magically stronger and more durable than their assigned ratings or anything we've seen and heard (other than cutting Garou), with contradictory fights if anything, is the most massive assumption I've ever head.

Tomboy is already charging by the time Garou is falling, so of course it hits him.

Actually, you're right. My mistake. I was half going off memory because I've been a little busy today.

Exactly, it is.

I'm just not even opening that can of worms.

Now, like I said before, I'll meet you down the middle. Maybe Garou doesn't have a weakens to sharp objects, maybe it's just piercing damage from these weapons that's not necessarily AP. Either way, let's not give these characters AP and weaknesses.

 

[TheRustyOne]

Saying that every hero who's ever hurt him is magically stronger and more durable than their assigned ratings or anything we've seen and heard (other than cutting Garou), with contradictory fights if anything, is the most massive assumption I've ever head.

Why isn't outlier the first thing to pop up, why give him a weakness? Isn't it easier to cut something vs punching, so what is the problem here?

Does this means a 8-B or higher character can kill him with a blade?

 

[ByAsura]

In any case, they shouldn’t scale to Garou, which is my main point. I’ve even said this twice and at the end of the quotes above you.

Honestly, I wouldn’t be surprised if a little girl with a knife could harm Garou. I don’t think a little girl actually could, but we don’t have much info.

 

[TheRustyOne]

In any case, they shouldn’t scale to Garou, which is my main point. I’ve even said this twice and at the end of the quotes above you.

Honestly, I wouldn’t be surprised if a little girl with a knife could harm Garou. I don’t think a little girl actually could, but we don’t have much info.

But Garou has weakness to sharp objects on his profile, this should be established and not ignored. Of course they don't scale to him, I'm more worried about Garou.

Can we establish what level of power a weapon with a small surface area needs to harm him? We have him as being more vulnerable to something than normal, so it's clearly special and should be addressed. Can I put an 8-A character against Garou, and if they're skilled enough they can stab him through the head?

 

[ByAsura]

That’s only for the Half-Monster key because RR hurts him. We planned to remove it a while ago, but I can’t remember why it wasn’t.

That doesn’t seem prudent given how GB, Gun Gun, Shooter, etc don’t even have profiles.

 

[TheRustyOne]

That’s only for the Half-Monster key because RR hurts him. We planned to remove it a while ago, but I can’t remember why it wasn’t.

That doesn’t seem prudent given how GB, Gun Gun, Shooter, etc don’t even have profiles.

I'm not talking about them, I'm talking about Garou.

What level of sharp weapons can hurt him? His profile states he is weak to bladed weapons, and you yourself state that he is weak to sharp weapons here and have provided proof of him being harmed by weaker characters. Since we don't say outlier, that means his durability against sharp weapons is less than a normal person.

What level of power does a blade need to harm Garou, as you said yourself that he is specifically weak to piercing weapons.

 

[ByAsura]

I know. What I’m saying is that most of the people who hurt him with sharpened weapons don’t even have profiles, let alone ratings. Sorry for not making that clear.

I don’t know. It’s only Half Monster, and I’m mostly providing evidence for his fully human state. I wouldn’t necessarily say it’s not an outlier, but what sharp weapons haven’t hurt him?

Like I said, I’m not sure. Personally, I think it’s like Wall level. But that’s just an opinion backed by some evidence.

 

[ImposingTiger]

These were explicitly smaller leftovers with individuality. Some (that's assuming just these ones) are even individual clones that can't regenerate.

Genos killed 3 individual clones that were close to the ones that ripped off his arm, that doesn't mean the ones harming him had the same cell stock just ebcause they were close. They could have had hundreds or thousands, in fact.

Secondly... I genuinely can't even remember what we were arguing about here? What was the point again? That the swords aren't particularly durable? Doesn't this kind of kill a huge portion of your argument above?

I was arguing that caharacters in OPM can one shot opponents that can harm their bodies (AS vs BS and FF vs Ninjas as examples).

Now, like I said before, I'll meet you down the middle. Maybe Garou doesn't have a weakens to sharp objects, maybe it's just piercing damage from these weapons that's not necessarily AP. Either way, let's not give these characters AP and weaknesses.

Ok, I was already getting tired or going back and forth. Let's end this.

 

[TheRustyOne]

Now, like I said before, I'll meet you down the middle. Maybe Garou doesn't have a weakens to sharp objects, maybe it's just piercing damage from these weapons that's not necessarily AP. Either way, let's not give these characters AP and weaknesses.

I prefer this, just sharp weapon BS that always happens in fiction. Like Tier 9-A or above characters being consistently harmed by normal guns, or bladed weapons by average people.

 

[ByAsura]

Genos killed 3 individual clones that were close to the ones that ripped off his arm, that doesn't mean they had the same cell stock.

They still more than likely had a very small cell stock given the context, but we’d can agree to disagree.

I was arguing that caharacters in OPM can one shot opponents that can harm their bodies (AS vs BS and FF vs Ninjas as examples).

More of an ultimate attack. You could argue the same about the Death Shower, but Garou dodging his other bullets suggests otherwise.

Ok, I was already getting tired or going back and forth. Let's end this.

Sure.

 

[Tetsucabrah]

I prefer this, just sharp weapon BS that always happens in fiction. Like Tier 9-A or above characters being consistently harmed by normal guns, or bladed weapons by average people.

1000%

 

[LordTracer]

I prefer this, just sharp weapon BS that always happens in fiction. Like Tier 9-A or above characters being consistently harmed by normal guns, or bladed weapons by average people.

This.