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Operation: Gohan (& Buu Saga clean-ups)

Nullflowerblush

Nullflowerblush

He/Him
8,912
7,674
Gohan not being a Super Saiyan 2 against Dabura and other stuff, including his power stagnation, have been accepted here.
With that out of the way, my proposals are:
  • Gohan's justifications should be changed to reflect the fact that he was a Super Saiyan throughout the saga
  • Gohan's Super Saiyan 2 tier should be bumped to 4-B or "up to 4-B"
  • Dabura's justifications should be changed to reflect the fact that he fought a Super Saiyan Gohan
  • Buu's justifications should be revised as well for no reason

Part 1 - Gohan​

Currently, Buu Saga Goku is rated as Large Star level+ as a Super Saiyan, and Super Saiyan 2 Gohan should scale far above that.

After he transformed into a Super Saiyan 2 during the match against Kibito, Yamu attempted to gauge his energy with his Energy Meter, and rather than actually calculating anything, the Power Meter completely spazzed out, spinning out of control as Gohan was too powerful to calculate -- Kibito even considered him to have "limitless" chi. Along with that, the energy Yamu collected from Gohan was great enough to bring Buu's resurrection to halfway complete in one go, something that left both Babidi and Dabura absolutely flabbergasted. On the other hand, Goku's energy level as a Super Saiyan was only registered as a measly three thousand kili. While yes, Babidi requested the "biggest" Energy Meter available, to assume that Babidi left Spopovich and Yamu on a mission as important as collecting energy for Buu's resurrection with a rudimentary and infinitely superior Energy Meter is just silly.

So, Gohan's power-up broke the Power Meter and brought Buu's resurrection to half-completion. On the contrary, Goku's power was registered on the low-end of the scale. What this means is that Gohan as a Super Saiyan far surpassed the likes of Super Saiyan Goku at the time. This is also supported by the fact that even while holding back with less than of his power available and a busted arm, Gohan managed to hold back Cell's blast during the Cell Games, and once he gave it his all, he completely wiped Cell -- Cell could not even compete with a fraction of his power, so even if Super Saiyan 2 Gohan during the Buu Saga does not scale to his former self, he should still scale to Solar System level.

Oh, and this.
Star level (As a result of neglecting his training since the Cell Games, his power has never changed since he was a child, as confirmed by the Daizenshuu 2). At least Large Star level as a Full Power Super Saiyan (Battled with a suppressed Dabura, who is equal in power to Perfect Cell, for a prolonged period of time -- albeit, with a struggle on his end), far higher as a Super Saiyan 2 (Despite not being able to draw out his maximum power, he was far superior to Shin who struggled significantly to restrain him, and his energy contributed much more to Buu's awakening than that of a Super Saiyan Goku, with the only other people to generate enough energy to resurrect Buu being Super Saiyan 2 Goku and Majin Vegeta. Dabura would have been powerless against him as a Super Saiyan 2 according to the El Manga Legendario). Solar System level after having his potential unleashed (Even without transforming, his power exceeds that of Gotenks by orders of magnitude. According to the El Manga Legendario, he and Gotenks were strong enough to take care of Kid Buu. Effortlessly humiliated Super Buu, who is more powerful than Goku and Vegeta together, and forced him to resort to absorption)
Click to expand...

Part 2 - Dabura​

This just consists of simple clean-ups and added scans.
At least Large Star level (Is equal in power to Perfect Cell, as purported by Goku -- this was later confirmed by the Daizenshuu 7 and the El Manga Legendario. Without putting up much of a fight, he forced a Super Saiyan Gohan to struggle immensely and had the upper hand in their battle; later, he was confident that he could easily dispose of Gohan after witnessing his power)
Click to expand...
There is no reason to include the fact that his Stone Spit ignores durability. It is Petrification.

Part 3 - Majin Buu​

Once again, this is just adding more scans and cleaning up the page and whatnot.
Also, his "Skinny" key should be renamed to "Dragon Ball Super".
Solar System level (Casually made a joke out of Gohan, nearly killing him, and Majin Vegeta, whose superpowered self-destruction was not enough to defeat Buu. Fought fairly equally with Goku as a Super Saiyan 3, as confirmed by the Daizenshuu 2; although, Goku later revealed he was holding out a bit) | Solar System level (As a result of becoming pure evil, Buu gained the body and the mindset to properly utilize the power he gained from his previous absorptions and became much more powerful. Toyed with Gotenks as a Super Saiyan and initially fought evenly with him after he became a Super Saiyan 3. Was confident he could singlehandedly defeat Goku and Vegeta while they were unable to fuse), far higher after absorbing Gotenks and Piccolo (After absorbing Gotenks and Piccolo, he completely humiliated Ultimate Gohan, who previously stomped him) and even higher after absorbing Gohan (Became the strongest character at the time, save for Vegito, surpassing the likes of his former selves and a hypothetical Metamoran Fusion between Goku and Vegeta) | Solar System level (Although weaker than him, he managed to keep up with SSJ3 Goku at his full power and eventually outlasted him in their battle. Briefly held back the Super Spirit Bomb while Goku lacked the strength to control its power) | Solar System level (Became far more powerful after training, allowing him to defeat Basil once he got serious and keep up with a restrained Goku during a training match)
Click to expand...
 
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I think this has been discussed before but why isn't Dabura SPC level? He didn't go all out against Gohan so that can't be it
 
It's a toss up really, we know that no matter what he is stronger than Perfect Cell because Goku said he is equal to Cell and then said he is stronger than he thought.

Though one thing to note is that El Manga Legendario says he is equal to Cell (Forma Completa) which is is normal Perfect Form while Super Perfect is referred by another name I think.
 
Assuming Perfect Cell instead of SCP is the "safer assumption" (unless there's some context I'm missing that's pointing to SPC), which is usually what the wiki tends to go for in most cases.
 
Nullflowerblush said:

Part 1 - Gohan​

Currently, Buu Saga Goku is rated as Large Star level+ as a Super Saiyan, and Super Saiyan 2 Gohan should scale far above that.

After he transformed into a Super Saiyan 2 during the match against Kibito, Yamu attempted to gauge his energy with his Energy Meter, and rather than actually calculating anything, the Power Meter completely spazzed out, spinning out of control as Gohan was too powerful to calculate -- Kibito even considered him to have "limitless" chi. Along with that, the energy Yamu collected from Gohan was great enough to bring Buu's resurrection to halfway complete in one go, something that left both Babidi and Dabura absolutely flabbergasted. On the other hand, Goku's energy level as a Super Saiyan was only registered as a measly three thousand kili. While yes, Babidi requested the "biggest" Energy Meter available, to assume that Babidi left Spopovich and Yamu on a mission as important as collecting energy for Buu's resurrection with a rudimentary and infinitely superior Energy Meter is just silly.
Click to expand...
One thing, but Goku seems pretty casual here against Yakone. In fact, later we see Goku killing Yakone by powering up more and more as a Super Saiyan, so we know for a fact that SSJ Goku doesn't cap at 3000 kili. Besides, we also see that Dabura is completely shocked to see Goku with a power of 3000 kili as even a suppressed SSJ (as he's not at full power), so it heavily implies Goku would be stronger than Dabura in SSJ, which makes perfect sense given that he trained for 7 years in the afterlife and surpassed SSJ2 Teen Gohan as SSJ2
 
Question flower man, are you scaling SSJ2 gohan to his SSJ2 cell saga self or not? You have to be because he wouldn't be solar system level otherwise and his SSJ2 amp would have to put him on the same level as before since you said his power stagnated.
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
One thing, but Goku seems pretty casual here against Yakone. In fact, later we see Goku killing Yakone by powering up more and more as a Super Saiyan, so we know for a fact that SSJ Goku doesn't cap at 3000 kili. Besides, we also see that Dabura is completely shocked to see Goku with a power of 3000 kili as even a suppressed SSJ (as he's not at full power), so it heavily implies Goku would be stronger than Dabura in SSJ, which makes perfect sense given that he trained for 7 years in the afterlife and surpassed SSJ2 Teen Gohan as SSJ2
Click to expand...
Goku actually used SSJ2 to kill yakon.
 
FluffyCreatureZ said:
You have to be because he wouldn't be solar system level
Click to expand...
The idea is SSJ Goku is Large Star level+, and SSJ2 Gohan exceeds his power by a long shot, meaning he is at least baseline 4-B.
FluffyCreatureZ said:
his SSJ2 amp would have to put him on the same level as before since you said his power stagnated
Click to expand...
It wouldn't be. Gohan draws his power as a Super Saiyan 2 from anger, unlike Goku and Vegeta who trained and mastered their forms by this point. Gohan was at the peak of his power back in the Cell Games because he was at the peak of his anger.
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
One thing, but Goku seems pretty casual here against Yakone. In fact, later we see Goku killing Yakone by powering up more and more as a Super Saiyan, so we know for a fact that SSJ Goku doesn't cap at 3000 kili.
Click to expand...
Goku wasn't powering up more and more as a Super Saiyan. He had his energy eaten, and then he powered back into Super Saiyan. The only time he actively powered-up to boost his energy was when he momentarily became a Super Saiyan 2. Although, him being casual is a fair argument.

However, Gohan would still scale above him due to how much his energy contributed to the resurrection of Majin Buu, and he would scale even further above Dabura, another Large Star level+ character, based off the El Manga Legendario statement.
 
While goku was casual when he was in super saiyan that is not enough to say gohan super saiyan 2 would not be far stronger than super saiyan goku. He contributed enough energy to speed up buu resurrection in one go which should prove he is far above super saiyan goku.

I agree with everything btw
 
Nullflowerblush said:
The idea is SSJ Goku is Large Star level+, and SSJ2 Gohan exceeds his power by a long shot, meaning he is at least baseline 4-B.

It wouldn't be. Gohan draws his power as a Super Saiyan 2 from anger, unlike Goku and Vegeta who trained and mastered their forms by this point. Gohan was at the peak of his power back in the Cell Games because he was at the peak of his anger.

Goku wasn't powering up more and more as a Super Saiyan. He had his energy eaten, and then he powered back into Super Saiyan. The only time he actively powered-up to boost his energy was when he momentarily became a Super Saiyan 2. Although, him being casual is a fair argument.

However, Gohan would still scale above him due to how much his energy contributed to the resurrection of Majin Buu, and he would scale even further above Dabura, another Large Star level+ character, based off the El Manga Legendario statement.
Click to expand...
What? So you're upscaling? Can you upscale here? How close is Goku to baseline solar system? If you're scaling like that then gohan should be at least large star+ not solar system.
Yes he needs anger to transform, but SSJ2 power doesn't fluctuate, it's the same boost, and btw gohan accessed SSJ2 through anger at the tournament yet vegeta said he was weaker, so it doesn't make sense that the ssj2 form fluctuates strength and that gohan is still as strong as he was before, but your theory is good, but do you have proof that his form fluctuates strength?
 
FluffyCreatureZ said:
but do you have proof that his form fluctuates strength
Click to expand...
"Because he couldn't gain power from anger and because he hadn't been training, he doesn't have the same battle power as when he defeated Cell."
A combination of combat fatigue and a lack of anger was the cause of his decreased strength.
FluffyCreatureZ said:
How close is Goku to baseline solar system?
Click to expand...
He scales far above Shin -- as Shin is comparable to Cell Saga SSJ Goku -- who scales to 4.63681859 Foe which is only four-times away from baseline.
FluffyCreatureZ said:
If you're scaling like that then gohan should be at least large star+ not solar system.
Click to expand...
Along with the Goku scaling...
 
Nullflowerblush said:
"Because he couldn't gain power from anger and because he hadn't been training, he doesn't have the same battle power as when he defeated Cell."
A combination of combat fatigue and a lack of anger was the cause of his decreased strength.
Click to expand...
Awesome, nice job.

Nullflowerblush said:
He scales far above Shin -- as Shin is comparable to Cell Saga SSJ Goku -- who scales to 4.63681859 Foe which is only four-times away from baseline.
Click to expand...
4.6 times is not enough to upscale at all. You need to be at least 1.5x difference from baseline I think.

Nullflowerblush said:
Along with the Goku scaling...
Click to expand...
Does filling up half of majin buus power mean that SSJ2 Gohan = 50% fat buu?
 
Actually Goku kill Yakon by transforming into SSJ2 briefly, i doubt he actually using full power of SSJ2 like when he fight Majin Vegeta.

On the other hand i agree with this
 
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
So uhh, so what method is even used for this?
Click to expand...
vsbattles.fandom.com

Gravitational Binding Energy

Gravitational binding energy is the energy needed to completely disperse a celestial body. If GBE is broken, the particles of the body will not reform or be bound to each other's gravity, but instead drift off infinitely in the direction they were moved towards. There are precise calculations...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
 
Nullflowerblush said:
vsbattles.fandom.com

Gravitational Binding Energy

Gravitational binding energy is the energy needed to completely disperse a celestial body. If GBE is broken, the particles of the body will not reform or be bound to each other's gravity, but instead drift off infinitely in the direction they were moved towards. There are precise calculations...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
Click to expand...
I read that blog and it didn't look like gravitational binding energy to me. It used solar radius, solar mass and GBE of sun, I don't think that's the formula for gravitational binding energy.
 
I agree with this (mainly the Majin Buu stuff, but the other stuff looks fine too)
 
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Pretty sure Shin creating Stars was debunked, it was concluded that Shin only jumpstarted the process by which the Stars and planets formed.

Also there's contention as to whether the Japanese words for stars there was actually referring to stars or planets.
 
Bumping again (c’mon, that Majin Buu AP is beautiful and needs to be applied)
 
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