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I don't think this will impact any tiers of the moment. Recent threads brought up the tiering system of One Peice so I thought I'd put my thoughts down in a seperate thread. Again this shouldn't effect anyone at the present moment. FAIR WARNING! This is a very long and detailed post. If I knew how to add table of contents I would. Please read in the entirety before responding.

Why Kaido is Tier 0/God Tier


From the beginning we are introduced to Kaido as the single strongest creature. On land, air, and sea no one is stronger. One-on-one, Kaido will win. Impressive hype right off the start but lets look at his feats.

At some point in his history he and Big Mom ruled the OP world under their group ROCKS. This was prior to even Roger's rise to power.

40 years ago something happened which lead to the disolution of this group and the two titans went their seperate ways. Thsi incident is also when Garp gained the monikier "Hero of the Marines", not for fighting Roger as many had thought. Kong and SenGoku were more than likely but not outright confirmed to have been around in this time period as well given their age.

After the breakup of ROCKS Roger, Shiki, and Newgate took to power. WG had their hands full with these three and rvialries were formed (Ex Garp VS Roger). There were other powerful pirates and likley Marines at this point as well but these were the main stars.

What happend to the two titans? We know BM started building her crew. Her crew is almost entirely made up of her children, stepchildren, and homies. Meaning it took her a long time to build up her new crew. That just leaves Kaido.

Going back to his introduction we know he was defeated seven times. Most reading this saw him as a guy who had not amounted to much and was now suicidal. The narrator continued with his description specifying that in these loses he took on the Yonko and the WG single handedly. Furthermore, whenever they tried to kill Kaido they failed miserably. Think about what this means.

Kaido took on the Yonko and the WG by himself.

That means Garp, Kong, & SenGoku, as well as Big Mom, Shanks, and Newgate were all unable to even damage him, let alone beat him and kill him by themselevs alone.

While we have no confirmation Kaido fought Roger or Shiki, we can scale them to WB and Garp and see that they two would lack the AP to harm, let alone kill Kaido.

Now a counter argumet to this is:

"Kaido is the strongest character alive, Roger is dead."

And

"Roger was king, that makes him stronger than Kaido"

Now here's why that doesn't hold up.

Yes, Roger was dead at the moment the narrator hyped Kaido. WB too for that matter. It doesn't matter though because as alrady pointed out Kaido does have experience fighting the other Yonko and Marines single handedly. Again, we cannot say for sure about Roger ever having fought Kaido, but we do know his rivals (Garp, WB, etc) were unable to scale to Kaido by themselves.

"But Roger is King"

Has the title of King ever been said to go to the strongest? if that were the case then Kaido should as a minimum be the current Pirate King. It was also brought up that Kaido is still comparable to other Yonko. I honestly do not see it. Maybe the fans say they are comparable, but the one-peice world itself does not. Even if they were, WB and likely Shiki were comparable to Roger even during his reign. That means that even if KIng is reserved for the strongest it would still apply if they had some form of rivals. Hence Kaido would still be Pirate King whether he was the strongest by a lot, or only by a little.

On the other hand its more likley than not that being PK requires more than being the single physically strongest. You have to have a powerful crew AND use them effectively. Teamwork is a common theme in OP world.

Luffy had Law help against Duffy

Luffy had Nami help against Cracker

Luffy had Brulee's help (Unwillingly) against Katakuri

Even BM had help from her crew. Otherwise she may have been assasinated. Then she had them helping her out in pursuing the strawhats.

There's also a famous line I see even knowledgeable members liek Damage use misappropiately:

"I would have defeated them all! Red Hair, Kaido, even Whitebeard!"

-Big Mom

I'm paraphrasing that a bit but hopefully everyone knows the source.

Damage and others have said this makes WB the most powerful of the four because she singles him out with "even". But that makes no sense. Right in the description it says BM would take out all 3 other yonko. If anything that would mean she is the most powerful, and by a considerable amount. Then WB follows her, and then the other two.

But again this is wrong for it ignores context.

BM is not referencing a 1-3 fight. She is referencing the strength of her crew comparavle to the other crews. Specifically if she had the ginats in her crew, then BM (and company) could over throw Kaido (and crew, WB (and crew) and Shanks (and crew).

This makes snese then why she would single out WB:

We haven't seen much of Shanks' crew, but from what we do now it is absurdly small and would be coparatively easy to snuff them out.

Kaido's crew has a bit more story to them, but still nothing special in terms of numbers, power, or intelligence. Regardless of how big his crew is Kaido still has to be wlling and able to use them effectively. That brings us back to his introduction.

"He took on the WG and Yonko single handedly"

If Kaido is by himself he can be beaten (Albeit not damaged).

That just leaves WB.

WB may not be as strong as Kaido but he has a vast army behind him AND he actually uses them. He did not charge into Marineford and take on the Marines alone. He came with his army.

Big mom (and crew) would have a greater issue waging war with him and all his occupied territories than she would haning up on Shanks and Kaido.

As if that were not enough let's consider this. Whoever holds the "One Peice" is the Pirate king (Source OP wiki). That's not strength, that's talking about Roger's long lost treasure.

When talking to Silver (Roger's first mate) Luffy says the PK is not the most powerful pirate in the world, but the one with the most freedom. To this Silver smiles and implies that is perceisely what Roger (the only other character to be dubbed PK) thought as well.

Furthermore when the Stawhat grand fellt is formed Luffy explains he has no desire to rule over/boss others around. His definition of King is different in that he only wants everyone to be equals, friends, and counted on in times of need. Furthering the importance of crew strength but also the need to have a certain charisma in order to build and maintain the friendships the crew is built on.

Mihawk "The clairvoyant" also addresses this. He takes note of Luffy's ability to draw others to his cause and that is his single greatest strength.

WB was considered the one closest to one peice after Roger's death. A recent databook says that is now Shanks. Both of these men had connection to Roger:

Roger offered to tell WB where OP was

Roger chose shanks, passed the straw hat onto the boy in his crew

As you can see, it is entirely possible that if OP is a real thing that Roger could simply give these men the information they need, or at the very list some very good hints

Alternatively if the OP is not physical treasure but a philosophy then it fits these two as well. The OP is not about gold or power but the ability/charisma to draw others to your cause for freedom.

WB never had any desire for treasure. His only desire was to live his life peacefully, free with his "family"

Shanks doesn't care for Gold either. He doesn't care about respect as he lets himself get bullied by weaklings. He only cares about freedom and the well being of his friends/family.

Either way these two are not the closest to finding OP because they are "powerful" in the physical sense, but because they have either hints to its location or share a similar philosophy to the deceased PK.

Even Luffy shares a similar philosophy to both of these guys and pretty much everyone will tell you his chances of being the PK by series end are very high.

BB on the other hand is not worthy of being PK (Stated by WB) and has a much darker philosophy than any of these man.

So having outlined all that I'll go back to my previous point: The pirate king does not mean being the single physically strongest character.. Therefore using that to argue Roger or WB is more powerful thank Kaido is at the very least questionnable.

"But Big mom specified Whitebeard . . ."

But that was regarding crew strength which ties into a PK's ability to draw on a powerful team.

So failing those counter arguments we bo back to the lore and feats of Kaido

He is the storngest character in the series.

"But what about dead characters"

Again he has history with most of the top tiers of the verse and those he doesn't (Roger) still scale to those he does (Garp, WB).

One-one-one Kaido will win

Kaido is the strongest

No one can harm him, let alone kill him, and not for lack of trying.

In conclusion, Kaido is God tier.

P:S I was going to review others but this post is already so long I think I better leave it here.
 
Seems pretty straight forward. I don't know who said the Pirate King is the strongest person in the world anyway.

I agree. Kaido is the strongest character so far.
 
@PsychoWarper

There're possibilities for that scar.

  • Kaido could have been damaged that badly before he become the monster he's today.
  • Kaido always win in a 1v1 but that doesn't apply to a 2 or more v 1.
 
This, overall, seems correct/consistent

@Calaca tbf, both of those would still make Kaido the strongest person in the verse
 
Nobody is saying he's indestructible. I'm just saying that the scar doesn't necessarily mean that there are characters who could currently match him. In any case he's far stronger than the majority of the verse (as we seen in the last chapter with that wild one-shot).
 
kaido is not a "God Tier" and never will be, he is what he is a Yokou and therefore a part of the 4 strongest pirates in the verse, finished. Then there are the Admirals, Kong, Sengoku, the Five Gorosei, Imu sama and so on and so forth.

It was said quite early in the manga that the 4 Emperors don't take much in terms of strength.

Eos Blackbeard becomes (if at all) well or is already a "God Tier" or Imu Sama is or becomes still a "God Tier" or someone who has not even occurred is with Oda always such a thing.

And let's not forget that 80% of the relevant and probably strongest characters in one piece haven't even stepped into action yet, and if they did it only very sparsely and very economically with feats.
 
The Yonko are stronger then the admirals, also show me a scan for this "It was said quite early in the manga that the 4 Emperors don't take much in terms of strength."
 
Right now Kaido is the strongest character so it should be considered as such.

He one-shoted Post-Katakuri Gear 4 Luffy and no-sell his attacks without Haki. Big Mom required Haki to clash fists with an arguably weaker Pre-Katakuri G4.

The admirals are quite below the Yonko level in a 1v1. Kong is featless, like Imu, Post-TS Blackbeard and the Gorosei so they doesn't count in the currently scaling in any matter.
 
R2p9l
Sorry, but doesn't this picture already show that Shanks can easily keep up with Kaido? like any other emperor.
Is he a God Tier now?

featless or not they exist and are a threat to Kaido that alone should show that the term "God tier" is not appropriate. at least not for one piece scaling.
 
Pretty logic. However, if you use some quotes to support your argument, it is not convincible enough, at least for me. There are a lot of hypes in One Piece, which is quite realistic when information is not comprehened exactly, like Doff wanted to kill everyone in Dressrosa, including Fujitora. So for the Kaido's case, the trongest creature, it may be a hype. We simply do not know for sure.

An other important fact, when we discuss about strength of a pivate gang, you said that it is strength of the whole crew. I can only agree, but only in very lmited situation. One Piece is very realistic, but it's not entirely the same as our world. We talk about a group strength, but the captain play the most important role. This dues to structure of most crew, like BM, or Kaido pivate in which the captains are completely differnent from entire crews.

Conclusion, Kaido is very strong. In fact, he oneshotted Luffy in Fourth gear. However, he is the same level as other Yonkos like Shanks or BM. I mean, he may be a bit stronger or weaker, but he has to fight siriously to Shanks or BM, it must be a tough fight.
 
Kaido>>BM tho. The Meme needed Haki to block an arguably weaker Kong Gun while Kaido no-sells attacks from Post-Katakuri G4 without using Haki.
 
Calaca Vs said:
Kaido>>BM tho. The Meme needed Haki to block an arguably weaker Kong Gun while Kaido no-sells attacks from Post-Katakuri G4 without using Haki.
Big Mom Defeats Judge
She uses such attacks against people like Judge...
Just to make it clear in a fighting situation she doesn't seem to be wasting much time and prefers to play it safe

And just because she uses haki doesn't mean she's equally weak. Luffy's also using haki to defend against Fodder means he's weak now?

I mean against Brook she has also completely exaggerated with Prometheus and Zeus at least I doubt that she would have needed them both in the "fight".

Kaido is definitely not overpowering compared to the other emperors if it were like that, the other three would probably not be there any longer and the world government would not have much to report if it was really that overwhelmingly powerful.

At the moment there is no God Tier in One Piece and I honestly hope it stays that way.
 
kaido was sober, used haki, and was serious when he knocked luffy out. idk if this info is useful, but it could change the way we look at luffy. ps there is a possibility that his club is made of seastone.
 
Judge is nowhere near to Luffy tho. Big Mom clashed G4 with Haki and Kaido tanked an enraged G4 with no Haki. There's the difference.

>Luffy's also using haki to defend against Fodder means he's weak now?

First, need scan. Second, not weak but weaker. There's no thing such as fodder in New World despite the difference between characters and Luffy.

The way to take fights isn't related to this thread. Kaido one-shoted Luffy the moment he woke up and destroyed Oven's castle without playing around. He plays safe aswell.

>Vs Brook

We haven't seen the fight tho. Brook was stomped and only cut Zeus's cheek.

Overwhelming stronger or not the fact that Kaido is superior to Big Mom is obvious. No-selling w/o Haki >>> Clashing with Haki.
 
@Calaca Vs

Now the behavior in combat already plays a role for me because Big Mom as I said before like to exaggerate with her actions it is now the attack or the defense.

And that she uses Haki to ward off Kong Gun is probably a habit and not a necessity or do you want to tell me that luffy can take on Big Mom even though he almost died against Katakuri?

I hope you understand what I mean now.

"First, need scan."

I didn't, I'm sorry. Could be that only in the anime he uses Haki against fodder.


"Overwhelming stronger or not the fact that Kaido is superior to Big Mom is obvious."

This assertion was literally created by a single action.
 
You're forgetting that after the clash Luffy runs out of G4 for some reason and couldn't do anymore. Also, you don't need to be equal and let alone superior to a Haki user to make him use Haki. G4 Luffy could be in the same ballpark as No Haki BM and that's why she used Haki.

That single action it's more than enough. Big Mom clashed with G3 and G4. If Kaido attempted the same Luffy would have some broken bones. Kaido casually one-shoted Post-Kata G4 who's stronger than Pre Kata G4.
 
Well, that is only based on the assumption both Kaido and BM go all out when they clash witth Luffy. But in fact, we don't know how much power they put into. Another point, Kaido is drunk so it is safe to consider he used more strength in his attack than BM did (according proportion like 40% or 70%). Beside, Kaido was attacking Luffy and wanted to take him down immediately because of his actions on Dressrosa. While BigMom just defended in that clash. Of course, she also desired to take Luffy, but just in that clash, she defended. So It doesn't make sense to say Kaido overwhelm BM.
 
None of them went all out. Kaido casually one-shoted Luffy after sighing and Big Mom incapacitated him in an unknown way. But BM needed Haki to block him while Kaido didn't.

And Kaido admitted he gone sober. I don't know if it's safe to say he used that much power.

Right now Kaido is superior to BM via feats.
 
BlackPAIN99 said:
kaido is not a "God Tier" and never will be, he is what he is a Yokou and therefore a part of the 4 strongest pirates in the verse, finished. Then there are the Admirals, Kong, Sengoku, the Five Gorosei, Imu sama and so on and so forth.
It was said quite early in the manga that the 4 Emperors don't take much in terms of strength.

Eos Blackbeard becomes (if at all) well or is already a "God Tier" or Imu Sama is or becomes still a "God Tier" or someone who has not even occurred is with Oda always such a thing.

And let's not forget that 80% of the relevant and probably strongest characters in one piece haven't even stepped into action yet, and if they did it only very sparsely and very economically with feats.
Agree with this post.

Addressing Dr. Fix's post and argument, labelling Kaido the "god tier" of One Piece solely due to hype from the narrator doesn't work. And Roger was acknowledged as the strongest. Let's not forget that Whitebeard was famous for being able to match Roger, not the other way around. You can say all you want about Roger not being the strongest, but he fact that another Yonko was produced from his crew that was capable of matching Whitebeard, Kaido (offscreen), and Akainu, should speak greatly on Roger's true power. Even his aged First Mate could fight an admiral. Kaido can't even conquer the other Yonko and don't argue that their crews make the difference because 1) Luffy beat Katakuri and was just one-shotted by Kaido, so everyone other than Big Mom would be one-shotted as well 2) The weakest of the All Stars, Jack, has a comparable bounty to the strongest of Big Mom's three sweet commanders (he was scared and respectful towards the other two, and even their names indicate their rank and overall power) 3) Big Mom was confident that Kaido couldn't kill her and even taunted him. Also, let's not forget that Kaido also has Orochi and the samurai at his disposal (only half of the Strawhats were needed to do crazy damage to BM's operation, most of them were the weak ones), so your crew strength argument is debunked. Big Mom herself would need to be powerful to fight off Kaido.

Also, you make a lot of assumptions about the Rocks and the One Piece verse in total. You treat a lot of speculations you make as facts, when they were only hinted at. That would be like me saying that the Sea-Devil, who was alluded to once, is the most powerful character in the verse. Let us wait to find out from Oda, because as it stands, Kaido will likely be the first Yonko taken down.
 
I do think Kaido is stronger than Big Mom and the strongest single character that we know of right now, but I think you're taking Kaido's physical strength and saying that that's the be all end all here. Physical strength is very important in One Piece, but devil fruits, haki, and overall strategy and skill are important too. Kaido has better physical strenght/durability, but we don't know who has better haki. Big Mom's devil fruit seems more resourceful, and her main homies are downright dangerous. Her soul steal wouldn't do much to kaido as he wouldn't fear her, but her physical strength and abilites are considered in the same or at least a comparable tier to Kaido. Much closer than Luffy is. We also don't know who's haki is better. Not saying this is the case, but it's possible that big mom could have better haki than him, which makes up for the difference between them. There are alot of variables. There's so much we don't know. All we do know is that Kaido is stronger than the other Yonko and every other known combatant in the verse in terms of single combat, but we don't know by how much.
 
Jo-Smooth said:
I do think Kaido is stronger than Big Mom and the strongest single character that we know of right now, but I think you're taking Kaido's physical strength and saying that that's the be all end all here. Physical strength is very important in One Piece, but devil fruits, haki, and overall strategy and skill are important too. Kaido has better physical strenght/durability, but we don't know who has better haki. Big Mom's devil fruit seems more resourceful, and her main homies are downright dangerous. Her soul steal wouldn't do much to kaido as he wouldn't fear her, but her physical strength and abilites are considered in the same or at least a comparable tier to Kaido. Much closer than Luffy is. We also don't know who's haki is better. Not saying this is the case, but it's possible that big mom could have better haki than him, which makes up for the difference between them. There are alot of variables. There's so much we don't know. All we do know is that Kaido is stronger than the other Yonko and every other known combatant in the verse in terms of single combat, but we don't know by how much.
We don't know that. Again with the assumptions. It was never stated that Kaido was stronger than the other Yonko. They are considered on the same level. If not, he would have killed them all already in one of his drunken fits.
 
Overall in terms of military power and territory, yea I'd say they're equal. The One Piece world isn't a world conquered by individuals alone, but fleets and crews. But in terms of 1 v 1 status I think the hype is saying that Kaido is the strongest living single character that we know of. He went and fought the other Yonko and their crews solo. And after that, the general concensus of the One Piece world (I assume this means the marines and pirates that he fought since they're the only ones that really know his power) "If it's a 1 on 1, Kaido will in." This isn't a 100% fact, but a conclusion based on his previous in universe feats that the characters in the series know but us readers/watchers don't
 
There's something I need to correct.

With the last SBS Oda confirmed us the reason why there's some Yonko commanders/pirates with higher bounties that other Yonko commanders/pirates (as shown with Jack and Cracker for example). It's the same reason why the Strawhats have been gaining some bounties while Luffy gained (except two instances).

The reason is because if the captain gets a higher bounty the power of the crew increases and the WG takes it as a major threat. The bounty has nothing to do with power but the threat said character represents.

Jack has a bounty almost as high as Katakuri but we have no idea of the power difference between these two. It's most likely that means Kaido has a bigger bounty than Big Mom which isn't a stretch at all considering Kaido is far more dangerous looking at his attitude (with things like attempting to fight Whitebeard before Marineford).
 
Whitebeard has arguably the largest fleet out of ALL the Yonko. Perhaps even combined. He has over 16 Division commanders (Some of them outright besting Vice Admiral low-diff, and matching the Shichibukai and briefly holding back Admirals). Meanwhile, Big Mom's and Kaido's are each comparatively small compared to WB. There's no way either of them Crew vs Crew would decisively come out on top, even if either of them could defeat WB due to his age and sickness handicapping him--or Kaido simply being the most powerful. Factoring in allies, we have dozens of crews. This makes Luffy's 5600-man fleet look shameful, and BM + Kaido less than half of WB's numbers combined.

The point I'm making is that Whitebeard would only win against BM or Kaido outright due to his numbers, and the fact that his 16 underlings (with some exceptions, ofc) are arguable equal individually to Kaido or BM's 3-main commanders.

Nothing in the lore from a RELIABLE source indicates that Kaido would lost one-on-one to WB, BM, or Shanks.

Nothing implies Shanks and Kaido actually engaged in combat. Shanks and his entire crew were unscathed after having stopped Kaido from going after WB, so he likely negotiated with him instead. Anything could have happened.

BM may have blocked G4 Luffy w/ Haki, but was she phased, let alone harmed? No, not at all (Jinbe > G4 Luffy anyways. Fight me. Shichibukai are being hyped up anyways)... Even w/out Haki, it could easily be supported that she probably would've been just like Kaido and got knocked on the floor only to stand up like "Really? That's it?" But WITH Haki, she literally had no reaction.

Now if we're gonna argue the Yonko's powerlevels individually:

Kaido > BM > Shanks > BB. (WB would be above Big Mom if we're talkin about the originals). Kaido has all the hype and one-shot Gear 4th Luffy w/out any haki, and this is the same Luffy who previously went toe-to-toe with Fujitora and Katakuri. Big Mom no-sold every hit she took as well from G4 Luffy and Jinbe, and she also has plenty of abilities at her disposal. She nearly one-shot Jinbe while in a physically weakened state from how she normally is displayed. Shanks is below both simply because he has 0 feats, and can only be scaled to Mihawk who isn't ridiculous in the feat department and fought against Commanders without suffering any injuries. Blackbeard is the bottom because, well, he admitted he wasn't ready to fight Shanks at the end of Marineford, and he got wasted by death-bed WB.

Bounty ranking would be the same (And no, this would not apply to tiers here >_>), in my opinion. Kaido at the top of the Yonko, BB at the bottom.
 
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