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CTR Author's Notes:
- Now you ask me, why are you wanting to have this discussion again? Here's why:
* The Review topic debate was concluded incompletely without considering the full scope of the arguments (Especially when the original topic had 12 pages and lasted approximately 3 months, while the last one had a single page and closed in three days), as can be be observed in the following evidence:
1 - There was at least one person who voted in favor of the removal, when they did not even understand the reason why it was accepted in the first place, and another user in the same topic used arguments that were already discussed in the first topic and explained in the CTR proposal original;
2 - With that last part in mind, not everyone who voted in the review thread seemed to know all the evidence, which raises the question of how many people who voted in the review thread actually had all the points needed to vote, being the thread basically a Fra train;
Note: The objective of the topic is not necessarily to reestablish the consistency of normal punches again, but rather to have a proper discussion about it, with votes that consider both sides and not a simple Fra train;
Now for the real CTR:
Evidence in favor of scaling by consistency of normal punches:
Original Thread:
Font A
Taking the text that Ziller himself wrote and formatting it to be more formal:
“The statement, "No matter how many times it was hit with his signature finishing move, the One Punch, the spaceship was so sturdy that it did not sink," raises a notable inconsistency. Referring to a casual attack as a "signature" move is peculiar, particularly when the power of Saitama’s punches varies dramatically depending on how casual or serious he is at the moment. A "signature" attack, by definition, should exhibit consistency and serve as a defining characteristic of the fighter's abilities.
If every punch Saitama delivers spans a vastly different range of power, then the concept of a "signature" attack becomes inherently flawed. From an authorial intent perspective, labeling an inconsistent move as a signature attack makes little sense. Admittedly, this may simply be a guidebook statement and not a definitive narrative element, but it still presents a significant point of contention.
Exhibit B: The First Punch in the Series
In the series' opening, Saitama is visibly and audibly frustrated after defeating an opponent in one punch. If Saitama's punches truly range from High 6-A one moment to High 6-C the next, or even down to 9-B on another day, this scene would lose all logical coherence. If Saitama indeed modulates his strength deliberately in every fight, why would he be upset by an opponent’s fragility? He knows that his full power can obliterate virtually anyone.
For instance, would Saitama genuinely care if a 7-C monster survived a 9-B punch? This would imply that he might find a 9-A opponent surviving a 9-B punch impressive while simultaneously being annoyed that a 5-B monster couldn't withstand a 5-A punch. Such a scenario is not only inconsistent with Saitama's character but also contradicts the premise of his abilities and frustrations.
Ultimately, the notion that Saitama’s first punch is High 6-A aligns with the broader narrative, providing a logical and consistent framework for his power levels while avoiding contradictions in character motivation and storytelling.”
As Ziller had described in the original thread, the narrative indicates a consistent level of strength for Saitama's normal punch, however as many people know and what he originally pointed out is that multiple characters have survived a punch from Saitama, which goes against the idea proposed premise, but there is a very simple explanation for this, which is... Kill Intent.
Saitama is excellent at controlling the strength of his punches and he never attacks humans to kill, with the only exception being Cosmic Fear Garou after he killed Genos, which already allows us to rule out any human who received a blow and survived even Monster Garou (In which Saitama had still promised Tareo not to kill Garou), another exception is Rover, who when Saitama found him, tried to tame him with a bone before punching him and still saying that he likes dogs, which shows that Saitama really had no intention of killing him, another exception is Kombu Infinity, but that doesn't apply because at the time, he wanted food and it's not plausible for someone to attack the food with enough force to disintegrate him, after all what would be the point?
Returning to the Font A, reading some very interesting statements: A) “Will Saitama, whose one-punch strategy has buried so many powerful enemies, be cornered like this?”, B) “[Suiryu: "Did you think Gouketsu was strong?", Saitama response: "Hmm, I can't tell if he was any different from the rest. It only took one punch."] & C) "But there's no enemies I can't beat with normal punches in the first place", the which points to a fixed and measurable amount of force used, of course this all only applies to Saitama's first normal punch at an enemy.
Yes, the original arguments are on the table, keeping them in mind to remember why it was originally approved in the first place is a good thing, of course I didn't put everything in and I had to reformulate some things, even because Ziller wasn't delicate or polite when creating its CTR.
FROM HERE I WILL BE ADDRESSING THE ARGUMENTS OF THE REVIEW TOPIC:
The Review thread's arguments against the consistency of normal punches:
Revision Thread:
Argument A) Kabuto and Beefcake
This is Saitama's normal punch delivered to Beefcake.
This is Saitama's normal punch delivered to Carnage Kabuto.
Carnage Kabuto has been confirmed to possess physical abilities far superior to other monsters (at the very least, exceeding those of Beefcake, who appeared earlier). We can clearly see that the physical impact on both Carnage Kabuto and Beefcake after being struck by Saitama's punch is vastly different. Despite Carnage Kabuto possessing greater physical abilities than Beefcake, his body shattered instantly upon impact, whereas Beefcake's body remained intact.
Potential counterargument:
Q: "Both of them died, so the result is the same."
A: Boros was ranked above Orochi due to surviving Saitama's first punch. Orochi also survived the first punch, but their physical states afterward were notably different. Therefore, the evaluation must focus on their physical condition after surviving Saitama's first punch.
Counter Argument: Boros scale above Orochi, not because he received less damage, but because Orochi only survived the punch due to Immortality type 2 + Regeneration, the punch literally turned him into paste bro, the initial proposal is to survive the blow relatively whole and not through Regeneration.
Argument B) Mosquito Girl
We also have additional supporting evidence:
Mosquito Girl’s survival after being swatted by Saitama. Earlier, we clearly saw Saitama becoming visibly frustrated in his attempts to kill the mosquito, yet he failed. (Of course, you could interpret this as a comedic scene, but it was clear that Saitama was genuinely trying to kill the mosquito). After Saitama swatted Mosquito Girl directly, he seemed relieved and commented on how much he hated mosquitoes.
If we follow the logic established in previous threads, Mosquito Girl would inevitably be scaled to the power of Saitama’s normal punch. (After all, when a mosquito bites you, you try to kill it rather than just blow it away.) Furthermore, Carnage Kabuto is undoubtedly superior to Mosquito Girl based on the rankings by the House of Evolution, yet Carnage Kabuto was defeated by Saitama in a single punch. This inconsistency highlights that Saitama’s punches must vary depending on his intent, emotions, or other factors at the time.
Now this is a strong argument, but it has several variables that kind of cast doubt on it:
* Answer: If I'm not mistaken about where she climbs buildings, they are more than 8000 times weaker than her durability, a much greater difference than a human's durability to a Styrofoam wall, with her durability being only slightly more different than air and as can be seen in the same panel, she had all four limbs intact when compared to her currently whose four limbs are mechanical, which indicates that the collision with the buildings did not influence anything;
* Counterargument B: With this level of energy, she would at least fly off the planet, which shows that she could not exceed escape velocity (11.2 km/s);
* Answer: Psykorochi's continent launching feat far exceeded escape velocity, and it didn't even go into space, so she could reach such a speed without actually leaving the planet;
Well, these counter arguments at the very least show that the review topic was carried out properly and the points raised show that the scale for normal punches is consistent.
And no, I didn't forget about Saitama's passive growth, I just didn't put it in the topic because I thought it was unnecessary and it was already discussed in both the original topic and the review, here's the link for anyone who wants to see it: Original & Revision, But of course, I know there are people who are too lazy to visit the topics, so if you want to bring this to the table, feel free, I'll just repeat the arguments from the previous topics.
And one last warning, I'm not that active, so I might be unavailable for a while, so please, if you're going to close this topic without me being present, wait at least a day or two...
- Now you ask me, why are you wanting to have this discussion again? Here's why:
* The Review topic debate was concluded incompletely without considering the full scope of the arguments (Especially when the original topic had 12 pages and lasted approximately 3 months, while the last one had a single page and closed in three days), as can be be observed in the following evidence:
1 - There was at least one person who voted in favor of the removal, when they did not even understand the reason why it was accepted in the first place, and another user in the same topic used arguments that were already discussed in the first topic and explained in the CTR proposal original;
2 - With that last part in mind, not everyone who voted in the review thread seemed to know all the evidence, which raises the question of how many people who voted in the review thread actually had all the points needed to vote, being the thread basically a Fra train;
Note: The objective of the topic is not necessarily to reestablish the consistency of normal punches again, but rather to have a proper discussion about it, with votes that consider both sides and not a simple Fra train;
Now for the real CTR:
Evidence in favor of scaling by consistency of normal punches:
Original Thread:
Font A
Taking the text that Ziller himself wrote and formatting it to be more formal:
“The statement, "No matter how many times it was hit with his signature finishing move, the One Punch, the spaceship was so sturdy that it did not sink," raises a notable inconsistency. Referring to a casual attack as a "signature" move is peculiar, particularly when the power of Saitama’s punches varies dramatically depending on how casual or serious he is at the moment. A "signature" attack, by definition, should exhibit consistency and serve as a defining characteristic of the fighter's abilities.
If every punch Saitama delivers spans a vastly different range of power, then the concept of a "signature" attack becomes inherently flawed. From an authorial intent perspective, labeling an inconsistent move as a signature attack makes little sense. Admittedly, this may simply be a guidebook statement and not a definitive narrative element, but it still presents a significant point of contention.
Exhibit B: The First Punch in the Series
In the series' opening, Saitama is visibly and audibly frustrated after defeating an opponent in one punch. If Saitama's punches truly range from High 6-A one moment to High 6-C the next, or even down to 9-B on another day, this scene would lose all logical coherence. If Saitama indeed modulates his strength deliberately in every fight, why would he be upset by an opponent’s fragility? He knows that his full power can obliterate virtually anyone.
For instance, would Saitama genuinely care if a 7-C monster survived a 9-B punch? This would imply that he might find a 9-A opponent surviving a 9-B punch impressive while simultaneously being annoyed that a 5-B monster couldn't withstand a 5-A punch. Such a scenario is not only inconsistent with Saitama's character but also contradicts the premise of his abilities and frustrations.
Ultimately, the notion that Saitama’s first punch is High 6-A aligns with the broader narrative, providing a logical and consistent framework for his power levels while avoiding contradictions in character motivation and storytelling.”
As Ziller had described in the original thread, the narrative indicates a consistent level of strength for Saitama's normal punch, however as many people know and what he originally pointed out is that multiple characters have survived a punch from Saitama, which goes against the idea proposed premise, but there is a very simple explanation for this, which is... Kill Intent.
Saitama is excellent at controlling the strength of his punches and he never attacks humans to kill, with the only exception being Cosmic Fear Garou after he killed Genos, which already allows us to rule out any human who received a blow and survived even Monster Garou (In which Saitama had still promised Tareo not to kill Garou), another exception is Rover, who when Saitama found him, tried to tame him with a bone before punching him and still saying that he likes dogs, which shows that Saitama really had no intention of killing him, another exception is Kombu Infinity, but that doesn't apply because at the time, he wanted food and it's not plausible for someone to attack the food with enough force to disintegrate him, after all what would be the point?
Returning to the Font A, reading some very interesting statements: A) “Will Saitama, whose one-punch strategy has buried so many powerful enemies, be cornered like this?”, B) “[Suiryu: "Did you think Gouketsu was strong?", Saitama response: "Hmm, I can't tell if he was any different from the rest. It only took one punch."] & C) "But there's no enemies I can't beat with normal punches in the first place", the which points to a fixed and measurable amount of force used, of course this all only applies to Saitama's first normal punch at an enemy.
Yes, the original arguments are on the table, keeping them in mind to remember why it was originally approved in the first place is a good thing, of course I didn't put everything in and I had to reformulate some things, even because Ziller wasn't delicate or polite when creating its CTR.
FROM HERE I WILL BE ADDRESSING THE ARGUMENTS OF THE REVIEW TOPIC:
The Review thread's arguments against the consistency of normal punches:
Revision Thread:
Argument A) Kabuto and Beefcake
This is Saitama's normal punch delivered to Beefcake.
This is Saitama's normal punch delivered to Carnage Kabuto.
Carnage Kabuto has been confirmed to possess physical abilities far superior to other monsters (at the very least, exceeding those of Beefcake, who appeared earlier). We can clearly see that the physical impact on both Carnage Kabuto and Beefcake after being struck by Saitama's punch is vastly different. Despite Carnage Kabuto possessing greater physical abilities than Beefcake, his body shattered instantly upon impact, whereas Beefcake's body remained intact.
Potential counterargument:
Q: "Both of them died, so the result is the same."
A: Boros was ranked above Orochi due to surviving Saitama's first punch. Orochi also survived the first punch, but their physical states afterward were notably different. Therefore, the evaluation must focus on their physical condition after surviving Saitama's first punch.
Counter Argument: Boros scale above Orochi, not because he received less damage, but because Orochi only survived the punch due to Immortality type 2 + Regeneration, the punch literally turned him into paste bro, the initial proposal is to survive the blow relatively whole and not through Regeneration.
Argument B) Mosquito Girl
We also have additional supporting evidence:
Mosquito Girl’s survival after being swatted by Saitama. Earlier, we clearly saw Saitama becoming visibly frustrated in his attempts to kill the mosquito, yet he failed. (Of course, you could interpret this as a comedic scene, but it was clear that Saitama was genuinely trying to kill the mosquito). After Saitama swatted Mosquito Girl directly, he seemed relieved and commented on how much he hated mosquitoes.
If we follow the logic established in previous threads, Mosquito Girl would inevitably be scaled to the power of Saitama’s normal punch. (After all, when a mosquito bites you, you try to kill it rather than just blow it away.) Furthermore, Carnage Kabuto is undoubtedly superior to Mosquito Girl based on the rankings by the House of Evolution, yet Carnage Kabuto was defeated by Saitama in a single punch. This inconsistency highlights that Saitama’s punches must vary depending on his intent, emotions, or other factors at the time.
Now this is a strong argument, but it has several variables that kind of cast doubt on it:
- Variable 1: Punches are stronger than slaps;
- Variable 2: As can be seen on Saitama's face after he slapped her, he was no longer as furious as he was when he was chasing the mosquito;
- Variable 3: Moment of Comic Relief;
- Variable 4: Objects that receive an attack and remain still, withstand the full energy of the attack, while objects that fly away due to the attack have their force dissipated;
* Answer: If I'm not mistaken about where she climbs buildings, they are more than 8000 times weaker than her durability, a much greater difference than a human's durability to a Styrofoam wall, with her durability being only slightly more different than air and as can be seen in the same panel, she had all four limbs intact when compared to her currently whose four limbs are mechanical, which indicates that the collision with the buildings did not influence anything;
* Counterargument B: With this level of energy, she would at least fly off the planet, which shows that she could not exceed escape velocity (11.2 km/s);
* Answer: Psykorochi's continent launching feat far exceeded escape velocity, and it didn't even go into space, so she could reach such a speed without actually leaving the planet;
Well, these counter arguments at the very least show that the review topic was carried out properly and the points raised show that the scale for normal punches is consistent.
And no, I didn't forget about Saitama's passive growth, I just didn't put it in the topic because I thought it was unnecessary and it was already discussed in both the original topic and the review, here's the link for anyone who wants to see it: Original & Revision, But of course, I know there are people who are too lazy to visit the topics, so if you want to bring this to the table, feel free, I'll just repeat the arguments from the previous topics.
And one last warning, I'm not that active, so I might be unavailable for a while, so please, if you're going to close this topic without me being present, wait at least a day or two...
