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Wouldn’t he need to view a GRB to copy it’s level of strength at that moment?
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One-Punch Man 4-B upgrade
- Thread starter Tural2004
- Start date
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Isn’t GRB just radiation/light energy? Could they actually scale to it’s amount of energy if it’s not a form of impact.
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Firstly, doesn't need to view stuff to copy it. He's already knowledgeable about such things and can tap into universal forces. Otherwise, how would he have tapped into fission and any gamma ray burst/black hole (especially while looking at the Saitama and the ground) in the first place?
Secondly, since light is massless, its energy is purely kinetic when impacting something. This is how solar sails use radiation pressure from photons to travel. Regardless, even if it wasn't, there's many profiles based on stuff like gravitational waves and luminosity.
Secondly, since light is massless, its energy is purely kinetic when impacting something. This is how solar sails use radiation pressure from photons to travel. Regardless, even if it wasn't, there's many profiles based on stuff like gravitational waves and luminosity.
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He’s knowledgeable about the forces, yes, meaning he can copy them but just like Saitama, he actually has to view a set level of power to replicate it at that level. He’s knowledgeable of how things works, so he cab produce those results by replicating it’s foundation but it doesn’t necessarily mean he can copy any level of power.
I was just asking. But apparently they’re measured via radiation.
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Ok, but again, how would he have copied fission, the first GRB and the black hole in the first place when he didn't actually see them? The closest black holes and GRBs are thousands of light-years away (typically billions for even the closest GRBs). It's not like he used his prior knowledge, otherwise he would've already copied Saitama's suppressed level.
Saitama can hold back. Gamma Ray Bursts can't. This doesn't prove that he has to visually copy demonstrations like the Protégé from Marvel, just that the energy he taps into has to be at that level, like GRBs are. About 500 GRBs happen in the universe within the same period, and even the least powerful are decently into the High 4-C range.
Saitama can hold back. Gamma Ray Bursts can't. This doesn't prove that he has to visually copy demonstrations like the Protégé from Marvel, just that the energy he taps into has to be at that level, like GRBs are. About 500 GRBs happen in the universe within the same period, and even the least powerful are decently into the High 4-C range.
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If the idea is that he can already replicate any energy in the universe thanks to him understanding the mechanics of it he’d be 3–A off understanding the Big Bang, no reason to tier his GRB close to a real one when its just a technique that can have any level of power.
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As one of the folks who first did this, why not "5-A, likely High 4-C or 4-B"?
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A lot of people seem to misunderstand how Garou's mimicry works.
It is said in the chapters that Garou's ability to replicate techniques and phenomena is an extension of the same "Flow" that Bang uses in his WSRSF, in which Bang replicates the natural flow of water and streams into his fist using his own personal knowledge of those things. Hence the name.
Garou's flow is being able to look at something and instantaneously become knowledgeable on it, allowing him to instantly absorbing/mimic it.
Now, because Garou has now gained knowledge of all universal energies and forces from God, he is able to replicate all of those things within his fist. All of it is actually an extension of his martial arts, which is his instant mimicry and replication of his knowledge. God's power seems to allow him to bring those things into a reality as well, on top of just replicating their "flow."
So Garou does not necessarily need to see things. He just needs to be knowledgeable on them. Seeing (Or even just experiencing) them is usually how he becomes knowledgeable, however, in this case he was simply given the knowledge.
Then we have the narrator straight up giving us a breakdown on what a GRB is and how it's the most high-energy strongest explosion in the universe. There would be no need for that if it was actually MILLIONS of times weaker than what it was being compared to. The simplest assumption here is that it holds the same force as a real GRB.
The Big Bang argument doesn't work here because he never used a Big Bang attack. He used a GRB.
Also, the Big Bang is a theory, not a reality. The narrator specifically says that GRB's are the strongest explosions that "have been observed." This could mean that the Big Bang would not even be included within Garou's knowledge.
Furthermore, who is to say that the Big Bang even occurred in the OPM universe? With the existence of a mysterious god being, and how religiously tied some things in the story are, the universe could have been created in a vastly different way.
It is said in the chapters that Garou's ability to replicate techniques and phenomena is an extension of the same "Flow" that Bang uses in his WSRSF, in which Bang replicates the natural flow of water and streams into his fist using his own personal knowledge of those things. Hence the name.
Garou's flow is being able to look at something and instantaneously become knowledgeable on it, allowing him to instantly absorbing/mimic it.
Now, because Garou has now gained knowledge of all universal energies and forces from God, he is able to replicate all of those things within his fist. All of it is actually an extension of his martial arts, which is his instant mimicry and replication of his knowledge. God's power seems to allow him to bring those things into a reality as well, on top of just replicating their "flow."
So Garou does not necessarily need to see things. He just needs to be knowledgeable on them. Seeing (Or even just experiencing) them is usually how he becomes knowledgeable, however, in this case he was simply given the knowledge.
We tier his GRB because he has actually shown it. It isn't a technique that can have any level of power. He used it believing that he would blast Saitama away. So at the very least he believes it should be >>>> the consecutive normal punches which "scratched" Saitama.
Then we have the narrator straight up giving us a breakdown on what a GRB is and how it's the most high-energy strongest explosion in the universe. There would be no need for that if it was actually MILLIONS of times weaker than what it was being compared to. The simplest assumption here is that it holds the same force as a real GRB.
The Big Bang argument doesn't work here because he never used a Big Bang attack. He used a GRB.
Also, the Big Bang is a theory, not a reality. The narrator specifically says that GRB's are the strongest explosions that "have been observed." This could mean that the Big Bang would not even be included within Garou's knowledge.
Furthermore, who is to say that the Big Bang even occurred in the OPM universe? With the existence of a mysterious god being, and how religiously tied some things in the story are, the universe could have been created in a vastly different way.
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I always just automatically assumed that Garou could replicate any level of energy displayed in history due to being given all knowledge, and that he had to replicate the serious punch after seeing it because that amount of energy had never been recorded in the universe anymore, which is why he had to default to the grb as the next strongest thing. Vsb always gotta complicate things…
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It would just be "5-A, Likely 4-B" if this was accepted. Since there would be no reason to assume just High 4-C.
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Out of everything, High 4-C absolutely has the most evidence going for it.
4-B is an reasonable assumption based on Garou surely having the ability to replicate the absolute strongest GRB possible, which he would have every reason to do, however... There is no confirmation.
5-A is a calculation that has nothing to do with the statement or it even being a GRB. Out of everything, that should be what goes, if anything.
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Well if you and Asura feel that way, I'm not against just straight High 4-C for him and Blast I guess.
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Because that’s his ability. He can understand and replicate all forces in the universe, yes, but that’s not replicating anything at it’s max potential no? He can just replicate what causes a general force but not the entirety of the force itself, such as it’s max power. Otherwise his GRB or black hole would have exterminated the Earth.
It’s also supported by him being incapable of copying Saitama’s full strength
?
Saitama holding back shouldn’t be a limitation to the supposed ability. His strength still exists in the universe and based on this Garou should automatically be knowledgeable of it as it exists. He understands EVERYTHING in the universe. ALL FORCES.
To explain what I’m arguing easier, Garou understands all forces. Fire? He can create fire yes, but that doesn’t mean he can randomly create a 100,000,000C flame, just that he can generate fire. That’s how I view it, he can understand these forces and generate them to a certain degree but not their max potential because that’s not what his ability does.
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Ok, no.
What Garou copies is the behaviour of forces in the universe, and he has understanding of the flow (as energy is never destroyed, only converted into a different form or transferred). If one force is constantly at 1/1,000,000th of its maximum strength, its behaviour restricts it to that level, and it's only converting/transferring 1/1,000,000th of the energy it can potentially create into kinetic energy.
Garou definitely wouldn't be connected to Saitama's full strength if he never uses it.
This is never stated. When he goes mode Saitama, it's immediately on par with the exact level Saitama used. When he copies Blast, he can immediately use his techniques to an equal or higher level. And when Saitama was emotional and destroying Garou, he could copy the same level of power, but Saitama's rate of growth just far outpaced him.
Max potential (I don't mean growth potential, just suppressed power) =/= max power output in that moment. Hell, when Saitama does stop holding back and vastly bolsters his output, their Serious Punches are on the exact same level immediately, which doesn't work with your logic.
High 4-C is the lowest potential for a GRB. Although, I think dropping 4-B is fair.
The black hole alone was far more massive than the Earth itself, and Garou still wanted Saitama (who can't normally breath in space) to stop holding back.
You were arguing that he has to see shit at a set level to copy it. My point was that he didn't see any of those at a set level, and the set level is High 4-C.
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Guacamolefletcher
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shouldn't this grant lightspeed attack speed to Garou?
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But that’s what I said. His understanding is the behavior of “all forces” in the universe and he copies that behavior and replicates that force. He understands how to create a fire but that doesn’t necessarily mean that fire is going to be as hot as the sun. He understands what creates a gamma ray burst so he creates a tiny black hole which is blasted at Saitama. He understands the background behind it and can thus recreate it at a degree but that doesn’t mean he replicates everything at a certain level especially when his ability is just to replicate these behaviors.
There’s also no reason to assume that this GRB is at the same level of the strongest without any evidence, while being a true GRB that doesn’t mean it’s at the same level. Same reason a lighter being a sort of flame doesn’t mean it’s as hot as a jet’s engine.
I have no idea what you’re talking about.
He understands EVERYTHING in the universe, EVERY FORCE. Him not seeing Saitama’s strength has nothing to do with his ability’s description. If anything it just further solidifies what I’m tryna argue. He only replicate behaviors behind certain aspects but he doesn’t replicate the exact degree of whatever he’s copying. This is what we’re shown and given in the series, I think it’s pretty baseless to assume otherwise.
These are clearly different abilities. 1. Allows him to replicate forces in nature, 2. Allows him to copy a person to use their strengths. They aren’t the same.
The description says that the way he copies these natural forces is by using WSRSF, which allows him to learn the flow behind a raging current, and recreate it within his body. He then puts this into his fists.
That’s his fist.
“He has gained knowledge of the flow of all energy and the behavior of all forces in the universe”
All his ALEF is taking the knowledge of X forces, absorbing it and putting it into his fist. He’s not replicating the strength of something he’s thinking of, he’s replicating the behavior around it.
This doesn’t mean he’s replicating a force at it’s strongest as that’s not the ability’s description, he’s replicating the behavior and just using an application of the ability.
They are only at the level Garou has them at.
Him copying Saitama is a whole nother story. It’s something different altogether.
The black hole he made was like 2 meters in size, the GRB wasn’t that big either, and GRB energy aren’t measured in terms of impact but radiation which does not translate to how much energy it’s impacting something. They shouldn’t be physically scaling off of these anyways.
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Again, I was using the least powerful GRBs.
You weren't addressing the point I was trying to make properly.
Your point was that Saitama is proof that he doesn't copy everything to the same level. My point was that the actual description of Garou's ability explicitly states that he copies the behaviour of said forces. I was not responding to your claim that he copies stuff to a lesser level, just the example you used for it.
Yes it does.
You haven't really even explained yourself here, you just said 'He understands EVERYTHING in the universe, EVERY FORCE', as if that actually addresses what I was said, but it doesn't.
If Saitama continuously uses a tiny fraction of the energy at his disposal, that is part of the behaviour of the forces and flow of energy.
I can see the point you're trying to make, since Garou says it's via martial arts.
However, your point above is that him not copying the level of Saitama's full strength is evidence that he doesn't replicate the flow of nature to the same degree. If they're two distinct abilities, then how does this point even remotely begin to work at all?
I get your point, but this is so bad that I just have to nitpick it.
There's buildings in the foreground. We know that the black hole is much further away because the material being sucked into it is behind the buildings. So, the black hole is nowhere close to 2 metres, and this was just an initial effect.
I literally just proved this is the case with electromagnetic energy.
Your other point is the GRB =/= punches and durability, so that's fine, but it's something that's already accepted on the profiles and isn't what the CRT is arguing.
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I’m aware, but my point is that Garou isn’t just thinking of something and copying it at whatever level he’s thinking of, that’s never stated, but he’s copying the background of an ability and simply replicating the nature of it. It’s like Garou replicating the nature of making a fire. While he can indeed make a flame, there’s no reason to assume it’s as hot as the sun as that’s not his ability, it’s to simply copy the behavior of creating said flame and applying that to his fist. He’s copying the nature of a GRB and recreating one but that does not equate to him creating a GRB of any sort of level quantifiable. We can’t say how weak or strong it is without calcs and I don’t think assuming it’s as strong as the average one is reliable as it’s quite literally not an average GRB nor is that how the ability is depicted.
Maybe I worded myself wrong, he can copy people via modes, but this isn’t the same feat as him applying the behavior of forces into his own fist. They’re separate.
But I have explained myself pretty well, his description says he’s using the WSRSF to replicate the nature of forces, not replicate a force in it’s entirety. He’s replicating the fundamental background of a GRB but in no way is this as powerful as a natural GRB nor is it implied he can truly replicate one of that degree, he can only replicate the nature of one.
I have no idea what you’re talking about
I changed my argument.
I exaggerated the size, yes, but it is no where near planet sized or anything of that sort. It’s not the same size of any GRB that would produce the energy listed on his profile, and the amount of energy comes from it’s radiation emitted which is depicted by it’s size, so we shouldn’t treat it as such.
But that isn’t how it’s measured. GRB’s is measured by pure radiation which doesn’t scale in anyway. If you wanna argue it’s light energy would have a certain amount of energy, sure, but the value listed on the profile is pure radiation which doesn’t scale to anyone.
This is true. I’ll leave this part alone and make a separate CRT but I still stand by the other points on Garou’s ability.
I’ll also state again that I didn’t properly explain my argument and have changed my stance.
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I get your point, I just disagreed with that part.
I was referring to the Saitama argument. Since that's void, this doesn't matter.
I didn't mean the size of Earth. I meant the actual mass is greater.
In this case, an 8.87 mm black hole would have the same mass of the Earth.
I know. I don't disagree, I just don't think it represents Garou's capabilities. But, since I don't have more evidence, I'll just agree to disagree.
The energy of Gamma Ray Bursts are actually measured through luminosity/light polarization, so yes they are. In fact, here's an article showing that the blast wave is measured in terms of kinetic energy.
I'm not arguing that light has a certain amount of energy, I'm telling you that literally most of the energy that a GRB outputs (barring lost neutrinos, which supposedly aren't even counted, but I'm not sure) is technically kinetic energy since that's how electromagnetic radiation works.
Heat and light are counted towards AP.
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I agree
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Agree
5A likely 4B
since he can made
a tiny nova to Ophiuchus supercluster eruption which 50 gigafoe.
BUMPz
5A likely 4B
since he can made
a tiny nova to Ophiuchus supercluster eruption which 50 gigafoe.
BUMPz
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Looks good to me, i agree
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I wanted to add a solid 4-B but the thread is dead. There are enough agreements to add "High 4-C, likely 4-B" but the profiles are probably locked and I don't know how to properly apply the changes anyway.
Dragonite007
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bump
Dragonite007
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I could ask to open the pages, but I don't have the new justification to put in the profiles
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I wasn't specifically referring to you bumping this thread, but the OP as well. But yeah, you can ask for the pages to open first and the OP will apply the changes later.
Dragonite007
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Garou's profile is open now
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Applied the changes
