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One Piece stuff

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I really dont want to debate this further so I will just agree to disagree for now.

Brook needs that ability as soon as possible tho. I at least agree Big Mom's profile should be on hold for now until we have seen her full abilities.
 
I agree with Cin here. Jinbe hurting Big Mom is an outlier and extremely situational. There's a very clear gap between Yonkou and Top tiers like Luffy and co.
 
Knightofannihilation666 said:
I agree with Cin here. Jinbe hurting Big Mom is an outlier and extremely situational. There's a very clear gap between Yonkou and Top tiers like Luffy and co.
Click to expand...
Even if I agree with cin (which I dont), it would be PIS, not an outlier.

An outlier would be if jinbe punched big mom to the moon, destroying it as luffy became pirate king in the background.
 
Minor nitpicking but you understand the point. Jinbe certainly doesn't scale to any of the Yonkou. However you can keep in mind that Jinbe and Luffy aren't that far off from the Yonkou calc wise. ( 1 teraton to 5 teratons compared to 7 teratons.)
 
@Knight - Jinbe hurting Big Mom (no implication it did anything other than upset her) would be the result of his Fishman Karate's shockwave affecting her body. Too bad everyone ignores that Jinbe literally stated that Fishman Karate controls the water in the user's vicinity, and thus the powerful shockwaves emitted from the user's attack affects the water within an opponent's body. It bypasses Durability.

Besides, if anyone's going to ignore that, Jinbe is anywhere between 1.7 and 5.1 TT via powerscaling whereas Big Mom is at most 7+ TT at her peak. Of course Jinbe's most potent attacks are going to at least mildly affect Big Mom.

And yes, also PIS. Big Mom was on the ship. Unless the writers were going to kill off the Sunny-Go, they needed some way to immediately get Big Mom to fall off.
 
Can you link to a scan where its said that Big Mom is weakened? Because hungry =/= weaker most of the time...
 
Also, Jinbe did stop cognac at first (Pero's statement) then Big mom proceeds to go full power and overpowers Jinbe but he still doesnt receive much damage.

Also the fact that Jinbe can attack Big Mom before she can respond is another indication to upgrade his speed.
 
@PaChi2 - No scan suggests that, but it's very clear anyways.

Big Mom is in a state where her body is malnourished and thus losing weight in an abnormal fashion. Early on, she showed symptoms from starvation, and now her body is being visibly affected, showing signs of catabolysis.

She is definitely in a weakened state, but not like it matters since Jinbe did not hurt her with his attack, and even if he did do the slightest amount of damage, that does not mean he scales to 6-B. Jinbe is 5.1 TT on a high-end scaling, which makes him far more than half as powerful as Big Mom is, who is base-line Country level.

Also, as stated before, Jinbe was using haki to bolster his defense, but that was broken by a non-haki attack from Big Mom.
 
Knightofannihilation666 said:
Minor nitpicking but you understand the point. Jinbe certainly doesn't scale to any of the Yonkou. However you can keep in mind that Jinbe and Luffy aren't that far off from the Yonkou calc wise. ( 1 teraton to 5 teratons compared to 7 teratons.)
Click to expand...


Okay, here is why we should consider '6-B' yonko and upgrading Jinbe.


@Cin


1. He also blocked an attack from a very serious Akainu. You can pick apart Big Mom's attacks any time, thats fine. But this supports the idea he is either 'At Least Low 6-B+' or 'Possibly 6-B'. Also, big mom is weakened, clearly starving, but also bloodlusted. This seems like a moot point.

2. Yeah, and WB fought three admirals at once, which are Low 6-B+. Even if you lowball them to just luffy's current level.

1.7x3x3 = 15.1 teratons.

You can make the argument that he is baseline to Fujitora, sure. But all yonko are stronger then the admirals based on WB scaling, which I also want to add stomped Akainu. She is far beyond 'Likely 6-B'.

3. Because he also blocked an attack from Akainu? Low 6-B+? Considering he one shotted opera and he fought base luffy for a small period of time, which he also blocked a g2 attack from luffy without haki, shows to me he is at least low 6-b+ or possibly 6-B.

I have no counter for 4, but it ties in with 1-3, so see above.

5. I am not quite sure about this.. Well telegraphed doesnt mean it is not mach 1000. I say he gets 'likely MHS+' like the rest. He kept up with big mom fairly well, intercepted akainu, fought base luffy fairly easily both pre and post time skip. Seems consistent to me. Also, if I recall, he scales as well to Ace, who himself fought Aokiji.

Calling all of this PIS I dont think makes any sense. He has the feats to back this up. I agree with PaChi.


Edit: I also want to add a wounded whitebeard stomped Akainu.
 
CinCameron20 said:
@PaChi2 - No scan suggests that, but it's very clear anyways.
Big Mom is in a state where her body is malnourished and thus losing weight in an abnormal fashion. Early on, she showed symptoms from starvation, and now her body is being visibly affected, showing signs of catabolysis.

She is definitely in a weakened state, but not like it matters since Jinbe did not hurt her with his attack, and even if he did do the slightest amount of damage, that does not mean he scales to 6-B. Jinbe is 5.1 TT on a high-end scaling, which makes him far more than half as powerful as Big Mom is, who is base-line Country level.
Click to expand...
So it is an assumption? Saying it is 'very clear' isn't an argument. I can say it is very clear luffy isnt Small Country level because he hasnt destroyed a country, doesn't make it right.

Back to weakened state? Well look at my other post. If you agree he is 5.1, fine. I will concede here.

But pick one. Pick either 'she is in a weakened state', which means she scales to at least her sweet commanders, thus he deserves Low 6-B+ or pick 'she is at full power' and thus 'possibly 6-B'.
 
"She is definitely in a weakened state," I still see this as assumption or exagerattion, even while starving she is being feared by all her children and specially Pero (who should know well how strong she is), indicatting that her overall power doesnt decrease by a lot. Those symptoms from starvation mostly affect her psyche imo, she gets more enraged the more hunger she feels.

Also, for jinbe I didnt ask for a full on scale, but something like "At least Low 6-B, possibly 6-B"

And the speed issue, still he could attack before she could counter.
 
PaChi2 said:
"She is definitely in a weakened state," I still see this as assumption or exagerattion, even while starving she is being feared by all her children and specially Pero (who should know well how strong she is), indicatting that her overall power doesnt decrease by a lot. Those symptoms from starvation mostly affect her psyche imo, she gets more enraged the more hunger she feels.
Click to expand...
To add to this point, Even Smoothie, one of the three sweet commanders was afraid when she saw her hunger fit after the failed wedding.

Also, again, she is bloodlusted so I doubt any of this is PIS. She really wants that cake and the straw hats dead.
 
@Kinkiest - Hahaha...

1. It's unknown whether or not Jinbe was using haki against Akainu, but either way, his arms suffered serious burns from a one-handed swing. He's not matching Akainu, especially since a direct blow pierced and nearly killed Jinbe. Big Mom being weakened while her peak is base-line Country level is a sign that Jinbe barely putting up a fight =/= Country level. He's already Low 6-B anyways.

2. Nice multipliers. That's actually wank, and taking on 3 opponents weaker than you doesn't make you even remotely close to being 3x stronger than them. WB is 7 Teratons via scaling. Nothing more.

3. Opera is 7-A via scaling. Jinbe blocked one single blow from Akainu, as mentioned before, and it left his arms scorched. Base Luffy is <1.7 Teratons.

5. Ace and Aokiji threw one attack at eachother, then nothing. If Big Mom's attack is above Mach 1k, which is base-line MHS+, Jinbe doesn't match that when he applied very minimal movement simultaneously. He should however scale due to feats against Akainu.

Jinbe did no visible damage to Big Mom, suddenly he's comparable to her? Okay...
 
For the record, Akainu blasted through both Jinbe and WB equally, the difference being WB's monstruous stamina, not higher durability.
 
after reading all this cin seems to make the most sense to me
 
1. He is low 6-B, not Low 6-B+. With all of this in mind, he is at the very least Low 6-B+. And you are not acknowledging this in any matter.

2. A reach? Sure. Wank? Ehh, Idk. My point was that he is stronger then the three admirals by a wide margin, which it seems you missed. I am not saying anymore yonko and other top tiers are 'At Least 6-B.' But saying they are just '7 teratons' is literally forgetting context.

3. My point, which to be fair was badly made was Jinbei >>>>> Opera. By a mile. Sure. Big Mom > Jinbei, but he is closer to Luffy in gear fourth with the new scaling.

5. Fine.
 
@PaChi2 - the difference is that Whitebeard's torso wasn't pierced, while Jinbe has an exit through his chest. Whitebeard was also suffering a heart-attack at the time, which allowed Akainu to just walk up and have his way with him.
 
Whitebeard's torso is far bigger than Jinbe's, tho. That's a matter of aoe, I believe.
 
CinCameron20 said:
@PaChi2 - the difference is that Whitebeard's torso wasn't pierced, while Jinbe has an exit through his chest. Whitebeard was also suffering a heart-attack at the time, which allowed Akainu to just walk up and have his way with him.
Click to expand...
none of this hints at a heart attack.

And again, this brings my point home, he stomped Akainu. Yonko > Admirals

Thus, they are 'at least 7 teratons' not '7 teratons'

I think the yonko just deserve a flatline 6-B and Jinbe and co get 'Low 6-B+'
 
I still think that Cin makes sense, but the "hahaha" was unnecessary.
 
Antvasima said:
I still think that Cin makes sense, but the "hahaha" was unnecessary.
Click to expand...
It is heavily divisive.

I think we should make another thread and highlight it, or make some edits to this regarding yonko scaling and highlight it.

I am fine with the latter.

Edit: Wanna add if Jinbe gets changed, it is very likely this will effect about 10+ characters if my count is correct.

Same with Yonko.
 
Yeah, Cin makes sense, I perfectly know that Big Mom > Jinbe.

However, we have:

G4 can at least match a casual Big Mom.

Jinbe can block a bloodlusted and "arguably" somewhat weaker Big Mom.

Big Mom is undoubtefully >> Fujitora who performed the 7T feat.

The fact that all of them can be 6-B but on a different scale is plausible. A possibly 6-B rating when he is already scaled to a feat close to the 6-B rating is acceptable imo.
 
I'm talking about when Whitebeard's torso was pierced. Note how you say that Yonko > Admirals when Akainu tore off a piece of Whitebeard's head, and got up from the direct blow inflicted onto him. Contradictions.

Meanwhile, Jinbe couldn't even harm Akainu with his punch, and was one-shot and would have died right then and there if not for Trafalgar Law.

If anything, the Admirals being fully scaled to Fujitora's feat seems the most likely thing. If the Yonko were seriously >> Admirals, then they'd have no issue just walking up and destroying the entirety of the marines.

They are all scaling to a feat that is relying heavily on the size of the One Piece planet, which we currently have at 10x the Earth's diameter. That's going to either increase or decrease in the future.

Again. 7 Teratons is the largest feat in One Piece, which is applied by someone who is questionably among the top tier. It's also Base-line.

Saying that Jinbe or G4 Luffy, who didn't inflict damage on Big Mom in the slightest, should thus scale to 6-B, makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Big Mom blocked Kong Gun with no sign of being bothered by it, and Jinbe's attack merely made her fall off of the boat, and she--again--was unharmed by it. even if it did hurt her, they are still Small Country level, and thus can hurt a character whose dura is <3x their AP

Jinbe and Ace should already be Low 6-B+, but I'll fix that because I had to make sure that every single High 6-C profile was adjusted and there were a lot of them. The line for who would be Low 6-B vs Low 6-B+ was very blurry (I'm still debating on Jozu's placement).

Fujitora doesn't scale to the meteorite feat. It's Environmental DC. He pulled a meteorite into the atmosphere, he has no evidence of giving it that much KE with his powers. We agreed to scale Akainu and Yonko to it because if we didn't, then Fujitora would just one-shot all of the top tiers (especially since they'd otherwise be High 6-C before I updated the bird-cage feat).
 
@Kinkiest - Read what you just linked. That calculation uses calc-stacking, and also uses the distance from Amazon Lily to Marineford using the provided time-frame and boat speeds. There's no implication that the quakes went anywhere near that distance. I brought it up for the High 6-C version too, and both were agreed to be unreliable.
 
CinCameron20 said:
@Kinkiest - Read what you just linked. That calculation uses calc-stacking, and also uses the distance from Amazon Lily to Marineford using the provided time-frame and boat speeds. There's no implication that the quakes went anywhere near that distance. I brought it up for the High 6-C version too, and both were agreed to be unreliable.
Click to expand...
I did read what I linked? OBD accepted it, I was just wondering why we didnt.

Also, distance... I am unsure that is calc stacking. We do it even here for our calcs. If it used a pre existing speed, yeah, I will give you that.

Again, just asking.

Considering how earthquakes work, I say it is a safe assumption. Earthquakes tend to resonate from the epic-center.

Also, considering Saobody got a flood warning and that yielded High 6-C, it is clear that is much, MUCH bigger.
 
well then. let's leave the possibly 6-B stuff.

What about the speed? Jinbe has reacted to both akainu and BM.
 
KinkiestSins said:
https://www.narutoforums.org/xfa-blog-entry/whitebeards-quakes-calculations-amp-assumptions.20978/

Have you this Ant? OBD calced this at 1.7 petatons and accepted it as well. This is 6-A.

Question, why is this not accepted here? I think if we calced it, it might yield results higher then just 6-B.
Click to expand...
From what I vaguely remember, DontTalk and other calc group members disqualified it due to that it calculated continental plate movements, rather than a single source of vibrations. The latter of which yielded much lower results.
 
CinCameron20 said:
@Kinkiest - Read what you just linked. That calculation uses calc-stacking, and also uses the distance from Amazon Lily to Marineford using the provided time-frame and boat speeds. There's no implication that the quakes went anywhere near that distance. I brought it up for the High 6-C version too, and both were agreed to be unreliable.
Click to expand...
Well, I might have mixed it up with another One Piece calculation then.
 
@Ant

That makes sense. Although this is probably a feat that can be recalced. Considering he specified 'a lot of earthquakes today' in an island in the grand line, implies to me it is from whitebeard and thus earns 'possibly'

BUT i will not push it, PaChi conceded, might as well myself. Still put it in the calc request board to get it recalced, I think donttalk didnt account for the new op planet as well, no?
 
Well, we cannot consider the OP planet to have twice the diameter of our Sun, but I think that we have accepted it as 10x the diameter of Earth.

However, I do a massive amounts of tasks in this wiki, so it is hard to keep track of the specifics regarding each issue.
 
@Ant - I apologize, I mixed both up.

the 6-A Calculation used plate movements, but it also used the same assumed distance, when there was no implication of the location of the island affected by the quakes. So the calc used the distance between Amazon Lily and Marineford, which he got from x amount of days it took Hancock to travel to Impel Down, and a ship speed. It's a lot of assumptions.

The High 6-C Calculation was meteor impact, but the same issues as above.

@Kinkiest - The calculation can not be done due to the simple fact that the location of the island affected by the quakes is never stated or shown. It could easily be within 1,000km of Marineford, or even all the way across the world. Using an assumed distance is very unreliable.
 
@PaChi2 - I suppose "At least MHS, likely MHS+" would be fine since Jinbe also reacted to Katakuri's attacks, and could land blows on him as well.
 
Well, this thread is now a mess to read.

TLDR: Cin agreed to Low 6-B+ jinbei and likely mhs+ speed.

And that is it.
 
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