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One Piece revision. Help needed.

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If that calculation is accepted, I can apply it to Doflamingo's page and begin changing everyone else's speed back to MHS.

I'm still wanting to deal with the tiering of the characters.
 
Fully scaling Doflamingo to his Birdcage but only partially scaling Fujitora's AP and not Durability makes no sense. If we did that, Doflamingo would easily be far above Fujitora and defeat him, which is certainly not the case. And also the powerscaling would again mess it up and Fujitora would scale to his meteors again which will take us to where we where in the first place.
 
@Grudge - Doflamingo terrified of the meteorite on Green Bit* (lol wut "Little Garden"??????)? If he were scared of it, why did he stand still and swipe at it?
 
@Scarlet - I believe that my statement was misunderstood. Just really quick, you suggest that Fujitora is > Doflamingo when nothing implied that Fujitora is capable of defeating Doflamingo, and his feats do not support this argument. You're trying to scale things to "make sense" when that can not be the case.

Here is what I was trying to imply with my statement: You guys already said that Fujitora can't scale to the AP of his meteorite since he isn't the one applying the AP... why the sudden comparison? Doflamingo made the threads. Fujitora did not make the meteorite. He simply pulled it down.

Since Doflamingo's cage would be High 6-C durability, and if we were to scale it to Doflamingo himself (which we should as nothing implies Bird-Cage threads have any special features from his combative strings), Fujitora would scale as well, and here is why:

Fujitora blocked a kick from Doflamingo, and Fujitora also laid the smack-down on Law. There is enough evidence there to suggest Fujitora is at the very least comparable to those two characters, especially since he beat back Gear 3rd Luffy.

The High tiers of the verse affected by this (we'll have to briefly go over this again) would be High 6-C, including Fujitora outside of Environmental Destructive capacity.

The Top tiers would be Low 6-B+ if we're in agreement about characters like Akainu and Whitebeard being capable of taking anything Fujitora can apply via Meteorites.

By the way, i would like to go over the speed of Fujitora's Green Bit meteorite since I am certain that I can find the AP required to make the crater in Green bit, and as a result--due to knowing mass and KE--the Velocity. I can use this to find a high end for Doflamingo's speed. The speed will NOT apply to the large meteorite feat, as that would be calc stacking, of course.
 
So you're saying Fujitora doesn't scale to Doffy from via his meteors but because he blocked a kick from Doffy? Is that correct?
 
@Scarlet - No one other than the top tiers scale to the meteorites.

Fujitora blocked a kick from Doffy and contended with Luffy and Law, so he scales to them, yes.
 
So Doffy scales fully to the meteors since he cut them, while Fujitora doesn't scale fully to them. But since he blocked a kick from Doffy, he also scales to Doffy, which in turn makes him scale to his own meteors.
 
@Scarlet - no no no.

Doflamingo's cage cut the Low 6-B Meteorites, which according to my most recent calc's LOW END, is High 6-C, so he would scale to High 6-C if we stick with the Low End.

Fujitora would scale to that, but he would still have up to Low 6-B Environmental Destruction via Meteorites.

If you're confused:

Top Tiers: Whitebeard and characters of this level like Akainu

High Tiers: Doflamingo and Luffy.
 
I do not think his "Cage Threads" are equal to his "Combat Thread."

That cage was clearly a much stronger technique than his normal strings. Considering every single fighter in Dressrosa was trying to halt the cage (including Fujitora, Sanji, Zoro) and was doing nothing to it when dudes like Sanji could tank Doffy's strings no problems and Luffy breaking them speaks for itself. And there are other characters like that dude with a trident that pierced Doffy's thread clone.

In short, I still do not agree to Doffy's Cage scaling to his AP and normal Durability. It should have a separate key.

That said, some more staff input here would be greatly appreaciated. We're going back and forth between only 3-4 members.
 
What do you mean "clearly much stronger than his normal threads"? Nothing can prove this. Doflamingo CREATED those threads just like he created Goshikito, Overheat, and other techniques. They all protruded from his body. Tell me how they are different from Bird-Cage, and the only person who could break Doflamingo's threads on the island = Luffy in Gear 4th. NO ONE ELSE.

Are you suggesting that Doflamingo willingly let himself lose, since he popped bird-cage, which is supposedly "much stronger than his combative threads", yet used his ultimate finisher and barrier with weaker threads imbued with haki?

Sanji was not even on Dressrosa for Bird Cage, and Zoro was the only Non-fodder trying to stop the cage before Fujitora stepped up and stopped it for a brief period.

A person can survive being cut by a sword, so Sanji surving being whipped by Goshikito is suddenly different? Besides, he was clearly wounded by the attack. If he withstood it and could keep fighting, isn't that enough to imply that he is perhaps in the same tier as Doflamingo? Also, as Aizen pointed out to me before--Doflamingo could've been merely "holding back" against Sanji.
 
Doffy's birdcage and the threads used in it are special. It should be a separate key as Scarlet proposed.
 
@Venom - HOW is it special? I am confused as to what leads all of you to this conclusion without any evidence to support this. Nothing is being said to support this in the slightest.
 
So Zoro was not able to do nothing to the Cage, not even slow down the damned thing, and even when Fuji showed up they slowed it down for a very brief time with the help of countless other fighters. Since Zoro is comparable to Sanji, how are you suggesting that Sanji is on the same level with Doffy? And holding back against Sanji doesn't have a basis to stand on.
 
@Scarlet - As I said, Doflamingo likely held back, and besides, Sanji not being outright murdered by Doflamingo--who turned his back to him twice--could be CIS on Doflamingo's part.

Also, let's be rhetorical for a second: if Zoro is merely "comparable" to Doflamingo by extension of Sanji, who took a hit from him, he should not have the power to stop Doflamingo's cage, since that would require energy almost equal to the cage itself.

Bringing in dozens of fodder tier 7-C~7-Bs to stop the cage + normal 10-B humans isn't going to amount to much, is it?

I'm still waiting for reasoning behind the cage being >>> normal threads... or even Awakening threads.
 
VenomElite said:
Doffy's birdcage and the threads used in it are special. It should be a separate key as Scarlet proposed.
Click to expand...
How are they special? They are no different than his regular threads. Unless Doffy used some kind of special application to enhance his devil fruit powers (similar to Luffy's Gear 2nd) for the birdcage alone, which sounds ludicrous. Where's the evidence to support that?
 
And Doflamingo's cage does not have haki visibly imbued on it. Are all of you suggesting that Doflamingo's cage is still >>>> Awakened threads with his haki imbued in them?

That's incredibly impractical, and there is still nothing supporting this.
 
@Cin and Sera

I'm sorry, but thinking back over it, if the cage is compsed of the same threads Sanji tanked and Zoro was incapable of doing anything to the cage, as Scarlet just mentioned, we have an inconsistency.

Sanji is comparable to Zoro if not slightly inferior. Sorry, I'm not trying to repeat what he said.
 
I agree with Cin. Took the words right out of my mouth.

Therefore it is not an inconsistency. If you pay attention or go back over the Doffy fights in the arc, you'll see it makes sense.
 
@Venom - while I can understand the argument -- Sanji was clearly being toyed with by Doflamingo, as shown when Doflamingo slashed him, taunted him, and turned his back to him literally two times.

A Sword can carry 10-A~9-C KE, but a 10-B person can survive the attack if their vitals are missed, or the cut is shallow. Or, Sanji is comparable to Doflamingo, unless Doflamingo was being PIS/CIS and let Sanji live.
 
@Cin

Okay then. I can agree with CIS since we all know Oda wasn't gonna kill off Sanji at that moment.
 
Also, the only people who could block Doflamingo's attacks throughout the Arc were: Law, Luffy, and Fujitora.

Any others who met his attacks were wounded (in the case of Sanji), or KO'd.

Even in previous Arcs like the War, no one could resist Doflamingo's Parasito (Atmos and Jozu). Only Luffy has ever countered it.
 
@Scarlet - While I would go ahead and agree, what about when Doflamingo regarded Luffy's attacks to be "Fast, but lacks any form of power"? This was despite Luffy actually visibly hurting Doflamingo a few times with his attacks.

I'm going to be against using character taunts as a way to scale them from now on, especially since Doflamingo was going "executioner" on Sanji before Law saved him. Sanji and Zoro should not be much weaker than Luffy in Base and Doflamingo due to Sanji's feats against both, but I'm going to need to work on something to prove that since dropping them a tier below was previously frowned upon.
 
Nevertheless, I cannot see your side of the argument, I'm really sorry.

As I believe everything to be said has been said, the only thing left now is to wait for further staff input and ultimately decide whether or not Doflamingo's Bird Cage scales to his AP and normal Durability. This thread has already gotten way longer than it should, not even considering the previous threads.
 
This seems okay, although I do not believe urouge and kid should be the same tier as luffy as we have literally seen nothing of them post timeskip, so so far they shouldn't be scaling to anyone post timeskip atleast for the meantime. I also don't believe capone should be in the same tier of luffy in terms of AP as he has very little if any AP feats, and is primarily a hax user.

I also believe brook should be bumped up to high-mid tier. He was the first to damage prometheus, and I believe he should be able to definitely at least hold is own against some of doffys executives in the high-mid tier i.e. diamante.
 
Saying the birdcage only applies to his durability is like saying Vegeta's galink gun only applies to his AP.
 
@Scarlet - A lot of CIS comes into play with Doflamingo and the Bird-Cage anyways.

Scenario: In order to mess with Luffy, I'm going to start closing the cage... let's make it 60 minutes before it reaches the Center :D. He'll be so pissed during our fight!

Scenario part 2: Okay, now Luffy is hiding... I'm going to speed up the Bird-Cage a bit in order to scare him out Cage goes at roughly triple speed.

Realistic Scenario: Oh, I need to eradicate the country, or else I will end up regretting it later on... starts closing thread full speed from initial placement while keeping allies at palace
 
@Perilous - characters that are featless post time-skip should honestly be "unknown". A lot of those profiles I have not even touched.
 
Why? Brook has not even met Diamante, and the only fight that Brook had post time-skip was being forced into submission by Big Mom, who wanted him as a pet.
 
I agree with CinCameron20 and Sera Loveheart.
 
Urouge isn't featless, he beat a sweet commander, also birdcage isn't a special unique technique, it's literally doffy using his df powers creatively, and his God thread which luffy overpowered with ease is >>>> his birdcage since its awakening which is the next stage of devil fruits and it was coated in haki which pretty much guarantees its stronger then his birdcage thread, one argument has some evidence to back it up and the other argument has 0 evidence to back it up, this isn't much of a decision
 
@Frozone - Ah... Urouge is an exception since he actually has statements via Homies who witnessed Urouge defeat/kill one of the Sweet Commanders before eventually losing to Cracker himself. I almost forgot about that.
 
@Frozone

Sure, but that could have been the weakest sweet commander, we still have no idea about how strong that commander was or the circumstances in which urouge beat him (for example, Urouge could have had some sort of advantages for all we know, similar to how luffy required namis rain to give him an advantage against cracker). So I don't believe we can use that just yet.

@Cin

He was the first iirc to damage prometheus, who was stated to be on another level to anything else they've faced according to BM iirc and is also a part of her. I definitely dont see diamante/trebol performing that feat in terms of AP.
 
@Frozone Thus thread is only semi-open, intended for staff members, former staff members, invited people, and those who have asked for permission, due to being very knowledgeable about the topic.
 
@Perilous - The Sweet Commander should be roughly equal to someone like Cracker, if not slightly weaker. The difference in power can not be so massive, otherwise the 4th Commander might as well have been excluded.

Prometheus is a soul placed into an object. Brook's attacks damage the soul, and we still don't have a clue about what Brook "did" exactly, since he was sitting there with "......." after Big Mom mentioned it.
 
Anyway we have:

Doffy= High 6-C

Top tiers: Low 6-B

Everyone not Doffy or Luffy= High 7-A and below

Am I missing anything? Of course neither Aizen or Kuu have given their opinions to the current arguments.
 
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