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One Piece: Oh shit, Giant Hands and Flaming Feet actually do be strong?

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DemonGodMitchAubin

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Ok, so this initial idea wasn’t mine, but I wanted to be the one to make a CRT on it and got to go ahead, so this is my first major One Piece CRT

Oda states in an SBS as such
oKu2xHz.png

He states that in One Piece Chapter 870, Gear 3rd Luffy and Diable Jambe Sanji manage to not just block, but cancel out the force of Big Mom’s Punch with their combined attacks

Now what this blatantly means is that Beginning of Timeskip Gear 3rd Luffy and Late Whole Cake Island Diable Jambe Sanji scale to 1⁄2 of One Handed Big Mom. As we know, Two Handed Big Mom is scaling to Two Handed Base Kaido and Two Handed Prime Whitebeard, who are all 12.64 Teratons, so Beginning of Timeskip Gear 3rd Luffy and Late Whole Cake Island Diable Jambe Sanji both would each scale to 1⁄4 of Two Handed Big Mom, meaning they are 1⁄4 of 12.64 Teratons, which makes them 3.16 Teratons, which is Small Country level, and since Gear 4th: Boundman scales far above Gear 3rd, Gear 4th: Boundman would upscale to 4 Teratons and be Small Country level+, which makes Post-Katakuri Fight Gear 3rd Luffy scale to 4 Teratons and Small Country level+ as well

Now some make take issue with this as this implies that Beginning of Timeskip Gear 3rd Luffy and Late Whole Cake Island Diable Jambe Sanji are near the Yonko in terms of power and they should not be scaling close to them at all, but after sifting through all of the Post-Timeskip, honestly there’s no notable Anti-Feats in all usages of Gear 3rd and Late Whole Cake Island Diable Jambe Sanji that say they shouldn’t be around 1⁄4 of the Yonko's weakest forms

First let's go over Gear 3rd Luffy, cause there's a lot more to note with him

In One Piece Chapter 645, Gear 3rd Luffy easily one-shots Monster Hody and in Chapter 692, he once again, easily manages to one-shot Shinokuni Caesar Clown, showing both of his first major usages of Gear 3rd easily dominate the opposition when used

In One Piece Chapter 719, when Luffy whips out Gear 3rd, he manages to completely defeat Don Chinjao and notably warp his head back to normal, which is a feat that is directly associated with Prime Garp's feat of warping his head to begin with, implying this is a feat that is somewhat comparable to Prime Garp, now of course Don Chinjao has weakened over time due to his age and I'm not saying that Gear 3rd Luffy is Prime Garp level, all I am saying is that this feat supports the notion that Gear 3rd Luffy is within the ballpark of the Yonko with Gear 3rd. As well, later in One Piece Chapter 749, Gear 3rd Luffy manages to easily blow off Pica’s head, which impressed Don Chinjao and everyone else within the area, once again showing how Gear 3rd is a clearly meant to be in a league above everyone else

In Luffy’s fight against Doflamingo, whenever he uses Gear 3rd, Doflamingo only ever notably blocks it with Spider Web in Chapter 780 or flat out dodges it in Chapter 783, signifying how Doflamingo really isn’t in the same league as Gear 3rd in terms of Raw AP. Doflamingo does manage to sorta pressure Gear 4th: Boundman Luffy with his Awakening and does manage to survive his attacks, but even then, it's still balatantly clear that Doflamingo is outclassed, the idea that Gear 3rd is still a pretty high level compared to everyone else is still very prevelant

Later by the end of Dressrosa, in Chapter 798, Gear 2nd+Gear 3rd Luffy was able to knock Fujitora, an Admiral, away and even bruised his face with a punch, and this was after Doffy was defeated, which is when Fujitora stopped trying to not help beat Doffy, remember prior to this, Fujitora was intentionally not trying to stop Doffy cause he wanted someone else to beat Doffy and then he himself on behalf of the Marines would publicly apologize to the world. In Chapter 799, Gear 3rd Luffy also managed to somewhat match Fujitora in a scenario where he was announcing all attacks to Fujitora, essentially putting himself in a disadvantaged state and he didn’t lose out till Fujitora whipped out Raging Tiger. This was also after his battle with Doflamingo, so he may have still been weakened at this point. Fujitora is an Admiral and doesn’t try at all during most of Dressrosa, Luffy is notably doing rather well against him for most of the fight. Point being, this once again supports that Gear 3rd is pretty damn powerful and being 1⁄4 of the Base forms of the Yonko should not be an issue for him

In One Piece Chapter 842, Gear 3rd Luffy was in fact notably blocked by Cracker’s Biscuit Soldiers, but considering these things were so durable that Cracker’s real body slamming into them completely one-shot him and took him out, with him being a Yonko Commander, it’s not really an Anti-Feat

Also in One Piece Chapter 871, Gear 4th: Boundman Luffy clashed evenly with Big Mom’s Buso Koka, neither lost footing in that clash, this was a notable big clash and neither one managed to lose out, this means Gear 4th: Boundman Luffy being near the Yonko ain’t weird either

In One Piece Chapters 878 and Chapter 879, Pre-Katakuri Fight Gear 3rd Luffy and Katakuri’s Mochi Mochi no Mi are notably even consistently and by the end of the fight in Chapter 891, Gear 3rd Luffy is able to clash evenly with Katakuri’s Awakening, which if you remember correctly, in terms of the Big Mom Pirates, he is second only in power of the to Big Mom herself, so once again, that’s by no means an Anti-Feat

And then there’s Wano, where Gear 3rd Luffy manages to drop Kaido and knock him around so many times it’s laughable, he does this in Chapter 923, Chapter 1000, and Chapter 1026, plus remember that Kaido’s Durability is far above AP, so not dealing direct pain isn’t an Anti-Feat, once again showing that Gear 3rd being near to the Base Yonko's AP makes complete sense

In Chapter 983, Gear 3rd Luffy knocks out Page One with a single punch, now some may say him choosing to use Gear 4th against Ulti, a Tobi Roppo member makes Gear 3rd Luffy weaker than them, but in the battle of Onigashima, Luffy has been consistently spamming Gear 4th: Boundman to easily take out all kinds of fodder, including a fodder Pirate Ship and a Number, so this still isn’t an Anti-Feat

So these are the numerous usages of Gear 3rd and frankly I see nothing that says Gear 3rd Luffy isn't within the realm of the Yonko

Now some may say that because Kaido managed to one-shot Gear 4th: Boundman Luffy with Thunder Bagua, Luffy can’t scale close to the the AP of the Yonko, but remember that Thunder Bagua is one of Kaido’s Strongest Attacks and is far above the AP of his regular Club Strikes, which is notably where his rating comes from, so no, him getting taken out by one of, if not arguably Kaido’s Strongest Attacks does not mean that Gear 3rd Luffy can’t scale within the realm of the Yonko

Now let's talk about Late Whole Cake Island Diable Jambe Sanji, he's pretty self explantory TBH, in Base, he managed to land a heavy blow on Oven, who is the physically strongest and most durable member of the Big Mom Pirates outside of Big Mom herself, so yeah, that majorly supports Sanji being near the Yonko as well, not to mention the next major fight Sanji is in where he uses Diable Jambe, he is ragdolling Queen a bunch, who was fighting and taking hits from good ole 6-B Marco

So in conclusion, I see no fault at all with scaling Beginning of Timeskip Gear 3rd Luffy and Late Whole Cake Island Diable Jambe Sanji to 1⁄4 of the Yonko's weakest forms, it's very clearly supported they're near the level and Oda's statement they cancelled out Big Mom's Punch is very consistent

In Conclusion

People who will be 3.16 Teratons (Small Country level)
  • Beginning of Timeskip Gear 3rd Luffy
  • Late Whole Cake Island Diable Jambe Sanji
  • Late Whole Cake Island Base Sanji
  • Raid Suit Sanji
  • Doflamingo's Strings
  • Fujitora (When he's actually trying)
  • Sabo
  • Cracker's Biscuit Soldiers
  • Smoothie
  • Oven's Durability
  • Katakuri's Durability
  • Katakuri's Big Mochi Mochi no Mi Attacks
People who will be 4 Teratons (Small Country level+)
  • Beginning of Timeskip Gear 4th: Boundman Luffy
  • Post-Katakuri Fight Gear 3rd Luffy
  • Post-Katakuri Fight Gear 4th: Boundman Luffy
  • Cracker's Real Body
  • Katakuri's Awakening
 
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Will go through this as soon as I can.

I'd appreciate it thought if you can list the full list of characters affected by this.

EDIT: First of all, I don't think that using certain scenes from Wano such as Chapter 983 and Chapter 1000 and Chapter 1026 is support for this. This is a different version of Luffy, after he has been trained in Udon and he is undeniably stronger than he was before.
 
Neutral... Leaning with disagree. But it is more accurate then what they currently are so leaning with agree as well.
 
G4th didn't match Linlin's power, she blocked his punch with no issues.

I said this off site and I'll say it here
Maybe that thread just accepts the feat as valid while the post ts AP thread discusses scaling?

Because we still have a CRT in the works for Post TS AP and we could easily just discuss it there
 
Ok, so this initial idea wasn’t mine, but I wanted to be the one to make a CRT on it and got to go ahead, so this is my first major One Piece CRT

Oda states in an SBS as such
oKu2xHz.png

He states that in One Piece Chapter 870, Gear 3rd Luffy and Diable Jambe Sanji manage to not just block, but cancel out the force of Big Mom’s Punch with their combined attacks

Now what this blatantly means is that Beginning of Timeskip Gear 3rd Luffy and Late Whole Cake Island Diable Jambe Sanji scale to 1⁄2 of One Handed Big Mom. As we know, Two Handed Big Mom is scaling to Two Handed Base Kaido and Two Handed Prime Whitebeard, who are all 12.64 Teratons, so Beginning of Timeskip Gear 3rd Luffy and Late Whole Cake Island Diable Jambe Sanji both would each scale to 1⁄4 of Two Handed Big Mom, meaning they are 1⁄4 of 12.64 Teratons, which makes them 3.16 Teratons, which is Small Country level, and since Gear 4th: Boundman scales far above Gear 3rd, Gear 4th: Boundman would upscale to 4 Teratons and be Small Country level+, which makes Post-Katakuri Fight Gear 3rd Luffy scale to 4 Teratons and Small Country level+ as well

Now some make take issue with this as this implies that Beginning of Timeskip Gear 3rd Luffy and Late Whole Cake Island Diable Jambe Sanji are near the Yonko in terms of power and they should not be scaling close to them at all, but after sifting through all of the Post-Timeskip, honestly there’s no notable Anti-Feats in all usages of Gear 3rd and Late Whole Cake Island Diable Jambe Sanji that say they shouldn’t be around 1⁄4 of the Yonko's weakest forms

First let's go over Gear 3rd Luffy, cause there's a lot more to note with him

In One Piece Chapter 645, Gear 3rd Luffy easily one-shots Monster Hody and in Chapter 692, he once again, easily manages to one-shot Shinokuni Caesar Clown, showing both of his first major usages of Gear 3rd easily dominate the opposition when used

In One Piece Chapter 719, when Luffy whips out Gear 3rd, he manages to completely defeat Don Chinjao and notably warp his head back to normal, which is a feat that is directly associated with Prime Garp's feat of warping his head to begin with, implying this is a feat that is somewhat comparable to Prime Garp, now of course Don Chinjao has weakened over time due to his age and I'm not saying that Gear 3rd Luffy is Prime Garp level, all I am saying is that this feat supports the notion that Gear 3rd Luffy is within the ballpark of the Yonko with Gear 3rd. As well, later in One Piece Chapter 749, Gear 3rd Luffy manages to easily blow off Pica’s head, which impressed Don Chinjao and everyone else within the area, once again showing how Gear 3rd is a clearly meant to be in a league above everyone else

In Luffy’s fight against Doflamingo, whenever he uses Gear 3rd, Doflamingo only ever notably blocks it with Spider Web in Chapter 780 or flat out dodges it in Chapter 783, signifying how Doflamingo really isn’t in the same league as Gear 3rd in terms of Raw AP. Doflamingo does manage to sorta pressure Gear 4th: Boundman Luffy with his Awakening and does manage to survive his attacks, but even then, it's still balatantly clear that Doflamingo is outclassed, the idea that Gear 3rd is still a pretty high level compared to everyone else is still very prevelant

Later by the end of Dressrosa, in Chapter 798, Gear 2nd+Gear 3rd Luffy was able to knock Fujitora, an Admiral, away and even bruised his face with a punch, and this was after Doffy was defeated, which is when Fujitora stopped trying to not help beat Doffy, remember prior to this, Fujitora was intentionally not trying to stop Doffy cause he wanted someone else to beat Doffy and then he himself on behalf of the Marines would publicly apologize to the world. In Chapter 799, Gear 3rd Luffy also managed to somewhat match Fujitora in a scenario where he was announcing all attacks to Fujitora, essentially putting himself in a disadvantaged state and he didn’t lose out till Fujitora whipped out Raging Tiger. This was also after his battle with Doflamingo, so he may have still been weakened at this point. Fujitora is an Admiral and doesn’t try at all during most of Dressrosa, Luffy is notably doing rather well against him for most of the fight. Point being, this once again supports that Gear 3rd is pretty damn powerful and being 1⁄4 of the Base forms of the Yonko should not be an issue for him

In One Piece Chapter 842, Gear 3rd Luffy was in fact notably blocked by Cracker’s Biscuit Soldiers, but considering these things were so durable that Cracker’s real body slamming into them completely one-shot him and took him out, with him being a Yonko Commander, it’s not really an Anti-Feat

Also in One Piece Chapter 871, Gear 4th: Boundman Luffy clashed evenly with Big Mom’s Buso Koka, neither lost footing in that clash, this was a notable big clash and neither one managed to lose out, this means Gear 4th: Boundman Luffy being near the Yonko ain’t weird either

In One Piece Chapters 878 and Chapter 879, Pre-Katakuri Fight Gear 3rd Luffy and Katakuri’s Mochi Mochi no Mi are notably even consistently and by the end of the fight in Chapter 891, Gear 3rd Luffy is able to clash evenly with Katakuri’s Awakening, which if you remember correctly, in terms of the Big Mom Pirates, he is second only in power of the to Big Mom herself, so once again, that’s by no means an Anti-Feat

And then there’s Wano, where Gear 3rd Luffy manages to drop Kaido and knock him around so many times it’s laughable, he does this in Chapter 923, Chapter 1000, and Chapter 1026, plus remember that Kaido’s Durability is far above AP, so not dealing direct pain isn’t an Anti-Feat, once again showing that Gear 3rd being near to the Base Yonko's AP makes complete sense

In Chapter 983, Gear 3rd Luffy knocks out Page One with a single punch, now some may say him choosing to use Gear 4th against Ulti, a Tobi Roppo member makes Gear 3rd Luffy weaker than them, but in the battle of Onigashima, Luffy has been consistently spamming Gear 4th: Boundman to easily take out all kinds of fodder, including a fodder Pirate Ship and a Number, so this still isn’t an Anti-Feat

So these are the numerous usages of Gear 3rd and frankly I see nothing that says Gear 3rd Luffy isn't within the realm of the Yonko

Now some may say that because Kaido managed to one-shot Gear 4th: Boundman Luffy with Thunder Bagua, Luffy can’t scale close to the the AP of the Yonko, but remember that Thunder Bagua is one of Kaido’s Strongest Attacks and is far above the AP of his regular Club Strikes, which is notably where his rating comes from, so no, him getting taken out by one of, if not arguably Kaido’s Strongest Attacks does not mean that Gear 3rd Luffy can’t scale within the realm of the Yonko

Now let's talk about Late Whole Cake Island Diable Jambe Sanji, he's pretty self explantory TBH, in Base, he managed to land a heavy blow on Oven, who is the physically strongest and most durable member of the Big Mom Pirates outside of Big Mom herself, so yeah, that majorly supports Sanji being near the Yonko as well, not to mention the next major fight Sanji is in where he uses Diable Jambe, he is ragdolling Queen a bunch, who was fighting and taking hits from good ole 6-B Marco

So in conclusion, I see no fault at all with scaling Beginning of Timeskip Gear 3rd Luffy and Late Whole Cake Island Diable Jambe Sanji to 1⁄4 of the Yonko's weakest forms, it's very clearly supported they're near the level and Oda's statement they cancelled out Big Mom's Punch is very consistent

In Conclusion

People who will be 3.16 Teratons (Small Country level)
  • Beginning of Timeskip Gear 3rd Luffy
  • Late Whole Cake Island Diable Jambe Sanji
  • Late Whole Cake Island Base Sanji
  • Raid Suit Sanji
  • Doflamingo's Strings
  • Fujitora (When he's actually trying)
  • Sabo
  • Cracker's Biscuit Soldiers
  • Smoothie
  • Oven's Durability
  • Katakuri's Durability
  • Katakuri's Big Mochi Mochi no Mi Attacks
People who will be 4 Teratons (Small Country level+)
  • Beginning of Timeskip Gear 4th: Boundman Luffy
  • Post-Katakuri Fight Gear 3rd Luffy
  • Post-Katakuri Fight Gear 4th: Boundman Luffy
  • Cracker's Real Body
  • Katakuri's Awakening
Also, wouldn’t raid suit sanji be 4 TT? Since he upscaled off of WCI sanji who scales to ovens dura
 
I'll go into my main issues later today, but first off I want to question why you have Doflamingo's strings up there and not Doflamingo himself. Doflamingo not fully scaling to Gear 4's attacks wasn't a big issue when the gap between them was much smaller but now according to your proposal he has been taking multiple Small Country level+ attacks.

His current durability justification is:

At least Large Mountain level himself (Casually blocked Sanji's Diable Jambe kicks with no damage. Tanked attacks from Gear 2nd Luffy and regarded his attacks as being "fast enough, but not carrying any weight" despite being previously injured by Law's Gamma Knife), possibly Island level (Withstood several blows from Gear 4th Luffy, who resorted to a stronger attack via King Kong Gun to put Doflamingo down for good), Large Mountain level+ with Ito Ito no Mi (Casually blocked a punch from Gear 3rd Luffy), higher with Awakening

Secondly, I think you should remove the Wano parts from the argument in the OP. As I said up above, that is a different version of Luffy that the one that is primarily being discussed in the OP. His feats against Kaido on the rooftop or against Page One in the fortress can't be used to support his beginning of Post-Timeskip statistics.
 
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I'll go into my main issues later today, but first off I want to question why you have Doflamingo's strings up there and not Doflamingo himself. Doflamingo not fully scaling to Gear 4's attacks wasn't a big issue when the gap between them was much smaller but now according to your proposal he has been taking multiple Small Country level+ attacks.
About this, is everyone here against using this new rating along the multipliers we have to get new tiers? We have both G4's "many times" G2 and Hody's multipliers.

I already said this off-site and iirc KT was very against the idea, but it's a good way to not have such a ridiculously big gap between different characters.
 
About this, is everyone here against using this new rating along the multipliers we have to get new tiers? We have both G4's "many times" G2 and Hody's multipliers.

I already said this off-site and iirc KT was very against the idea, but it's a good way to not have such a ridiculously big gap between different characters.
There's better ways to solve the ridiculously big gaps; backscaling every single Post-Timeskip character from Whitebeard is not the ideal solution to me.
 
Secondly, I think you should remove the Wano parts from the argument in the OP. As I said up above, that is a different version of Luffy that the one that is primarily being discussed in the OP. His feats against Kaido on the rooftop or against Page One in the fortress can't be used to support his beginning of Post-Timeskip statistics.
I'd still say they are relevant and help support the idea, it's to prevent people from suggesting those later usages are Anti-Feats
 
I'd still say they are relevant and help support the idea, it's to prevent people from suggesting those later usages are Anti-Feats
Nobody would suggest those later usages are Anti-Feats because they don't apply to the earlier version of Luffy.
 
Nobody would suggest those later usages are Anti-Feats because they don't apply to the earlier version of Luffy.
Of course they do, if people were suggest his Gear 3rd Feats in Wano don't support the notion that Luffy's near the Yonko, then they would say an earlier weaker version of Gear 3rd Luffy couldn't be near the Yonko either, so yes, these feats are relevant to the discussion
 
Of course they do, if people were suggest his Gear 3rd Feats in Wano don't support the notion that Luffy's near the Yonko, then they would say an earlier weaker version of Gear 3rd Luffy couldn't be near the Yonko either, so yes, these feats are relevant to the discussion
Sorry, but I don't see how that makes sense.

How can somebody post a picture of Gear 3 Luffy making Kaido bleed and knocking him to the ground and say that it is an Anti-Feat for beginning of Post-Timeskip Luffy?
 
Sorry, but I don't see how that makes sense.

How can somebody post a picture of Gear 3 Luffy making Kaido bleed and knocking him to the ground and say that it is an Anti-Feat for beginning of Post-Timeskip Luffy?
That's the point tho, they wouldn't know about that feat if I didn't put it in the AP, I listed every Post-TS Gear 3rd Feat to give a clear picture as a whole, letting everyone know about his later feats as well, so no one gets misinformed about his later Gear 3rd Feats

I posted the Wano Feats to point out how his later Feats do not contradict the earlier ones
 
Fine. I just think it confuses the issue when you're discussing multiple keys of Luffy without separating the information for each key. The latter parts of the OP do not support or deny the proposed changes for Luffy's first Post-Timeskip key which is what I was getting at.
 
Fine. I just think it confuses the issue when you're discussing multiple keys of Luffy without separating the information for each key. The latter parts of the OP do not support or deny the proposed changes for Luffy's first Post-Timeskip key which is what I was getting at.
That's fine, we don't need to talk about those feats, but I'm not removing them from the OP

In general, I think it's fairly obvious that Gear 3rd Luffy and Diable Jambe Sanji scale the way they do, it comes directly from Oda himself that Luffy and Sanji cancel Big Mom's attack out with raw force, so all that needs to be done is the scaling itself
 
That's fine, we don't need to talk about those feats, but I'm not removing them from the OP

In general, I think it's fairly obvious that Gear 3rd Luffy and Diable Jambe Sanji scale the way they do, it comes directly from Oda himself that Luffy and Sanji cancel Big Mom's attack out with raw force, so all that needs to be done is the scaling itself
You haven't responded to my point about Doflamingo.
 
You haven't responded to my point about Doflamingo.
Well some people off site told me only Doffy's Strings and Durability scaled to Gear 3rd and Gear 4th, I forgot about to mention his Durability in the OP is all

But yeah, Doffy took tons of punishment before Luffy used Gear 4th and therefore surviving a ton of Gear 4th hits would mean he has Low 6-B Durability, also I am fine with backscaling more characters from Gear 3rd if it is supported
 
@DemonGodMitchAubin; I noticed that backscaling Sanji's Diable Jambe strength to his statistics in Dressrosa isn't being done, but Luffy's statistics are.

Personally this doesn't make a lot of sense to me. The power disparity between the keys means that Sanji became over 3000 times more powerful from Dressrosa to Whole Cake Island while Luffy didn't change power at all.
 
@DemonGodMitchAubin; I noticed that backscaling Sanji's Diable Jambe strength to his statistics in Dressrosa isn't being done, but Luffy's statistics are.

Personally this doesn't make a lot of sense to me. The power disparity between the keys means that Sanji became over 3000 times more powerful from Dressrosa to Whole Cake Island while Luffy didn't change power at all.
I mean I was just following the keys that were previously listed as Sanji's Profile distinctly separates Late WCI and Dressrosa, but if you take issue with that, we can backscale a lot more people to Low 6-B, which I am also fine with as I don't believe the Yonko are as untouchable as we currently list them to be
 
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