One Piece - High Tiers

[CinCameron20]

This topic does not really need to be highlighted unless it becomes a really controversial discussion. If it gets crazy, i'd prefer it to be moved to Staff Only.

After having the Top tiers be given a feat to scale to: being 49 Teratons (6-B), I have finally decided that it is an appropriate time to bring up this topic.

Just as a reminder: The High tiers (High 6-C characters) are currently scaling to Doflamingo's thread durability calculation (We use the Low End... [Doflamingo's high-end on the previously mentioned calculation puts his thread durability at the base-line for 6-B, 7 Teratons for the durability]), putting his standard bird-cage threads at the ability to withstand 645+ Gigatons of Energy before simply snapping. As a result, characters who scale directly from Gear 4th Luffy (who can break Doflamingo's awakened haki-infused threads like twigs, just FYI) and people he's fought, are scaled to this tier.

Now, I want to point to one issue I see with this: Donquixote Doflamingo and Jozu are now 1.32% as powerful as Kuzan (Admiral Aokiji) if we just look at their scalings at face value (600+GT vs 40+TT). Considering that Jozu is capable of doing some noticeable harm to Kuzan and hold him off for a brief period of time in a head-to-head engagement, and someone like Marco can contend with Kizaru, who is Aokiji's equal, it makes very little sense for them to be roughly 1% as powerful as the Admirals.

Also, Jozu knocked away Mihawk's slash, and Vista could also contend with him, so... yeah.

High 6-C Fujitora would also be practically nothing compared to the previous Admirals.

To get to the point, we have two options:

1) Upgrade current High 6-C characters to "Likely 6-B" via powerscaling from Gear 4th Luffy, Doflamingo, and Yonko Commanders who can contend with Gear 4th Luffy. This is when using the high-end of Doflamingo's thread calculation.

2) Do nothing, and leave High tiers where they are at.

 

[Utenok123]

I don't agree with the current level of Zoro. Oda repeatedly said that they are almost equal with Luffy in strength

 

[LordGinSama]

^ Thread has nothing to do with Zoro if you think that create another thread.


Is 49 teratons coming from that Aokiji calc? If so that'd make sense and I'd agree with the changes.

 

[Reppuzan]

If I'm reading the context here correctly, this doesn't seem unreasonable, but I'd like more input on this since I'm not exactly a One Piece expert.

 

[PaChi2]

Why do we go by the high end for Doffy's calc? Just honestly curious.

 

[Huesito88]

Why 1 percent where was it stated or are were assumptions being made?

 

[Reppuzan]

@Huesito

His point is that even though people like Jozu are weaker than the Admirals, it makes little sense to use a value 1% of the Admirals' value if they can briefly match them or stop their attacks.

 

[Huesito88]

Oh I see

 

[CinCameron20]

Sorry, i went to sleep immediately after i made this thread and it may have been poorly structured.

Okay, I realized that I have to refer to "top"and "high" tiers differently now that the One Piece page has been revised. And that, looking at Reppu's response, I'll need to elaborate more.

The top tiers are the Yonko, Admirals, and characters directly compared to them. This thread only mentions them. It is not for them. Ignore them from here on out.

The High tiers are Yonko Commanders (Jozu, Marco, Cracker, Vista, Smoothie, Katakuri, Jack), Doflamingo, Luffy, Law, Inuarashi, Nekomamushi, Zou, and everyone else who is currently listed as "High 6-C" in One Piece.

I brought the topic up due to the absurd gap between high and top tiers when Jozu could harm Aokiji, Doflamingo withstood a flash-freeze from Aokiji, Fujitora is an Admiral--so it is strange for him to be drastically inferior to the 3 Admirals, and Marco + Vista were capable of briefly contending with Admirals and Mihawk.

I mentioned the Doflamingo's thread durability calc, which all the high tiers scale to. We currently use the Low End value, which only calculate's Doflamingo's threads' direct contact with the meteorite. The high end is suggesting that the cage tanked the KE of the 7 teraton meteorite entirely, and it would make sense given that, after falling past the cage, those meteorites did City-level AP (I remember it being calc'd around 14 Megatons).

There are other links provided in the calculation, leading to a chain of other calculations revolving around the feat (Keep in mind that there were a LOT of upgrades happening at that time, and the OP planet size changed about... 5 times before we accepted what we currently have).

It's not me just saying "Oh, Jozu hurt Kuzan, so let's upgrade him", but rather, "Hey, Doflamingo has a high-end that makes sense, and it could work".

Does this make sense now? I feel like I'm mixing reasons in together, and making a blob somewhere.

 

[CinCameron20]

@PaChi - we don't go by the high end, we go by the low end. I'm suggesting that we SHOULD go by the High end because, after the meteorites pass through, they fall some tens of kilometers before doing city-level AP, which is a clear indication that Doflamingo's threads withstood the KE of the largest meteorite (calc'd at 7 teratons), making his thread durability base-line Country level.

 

[CinCameron20]

Also, i just edited the description for the high end, because i re-read it, and i said something like "the KE of the cage", when i meant "meteorite", and also provided a link to the meteorite calculation in the high end, just so you could see where that's coming from.

 

[CinCameron20]

@Utenok - nothing to do with Zoro, bub. He's staying 7-A through this cold winter.

 

[LordGinSama]

Bump

 

[Antvasima]

I suppose that it seems reasonable to upgrade the high tier characters to "Likely 6-B", but would appreciate more community input.

 

[CinCameron20]

@Ant - I would like some more input as well. I know Lina reassured me that the high end would work around the time he made the first post.

@Everyone Interested - While some of this was brought up in an earlier comment, i'd like to add onto reasoning to support the high end: If we honestly suggest that the Low End is 100% accurate, then that simply means that only about 10% of the energy from the meteorite had been transferred to the bird cage. We see that, after the meteorite falls through, it is still in very much one piece (due to the pieces being so close together, they are touching), and carrying a massive amount of KE. The meteorite would've either drilled into the island, or caused catastrophic destruction to the island itself.

If we look at the high-end, the bird-cage fully absorbs the KE of the meteorite, stopping it, and slowly cutting it to pieces before most of the meteorite free-falls for roughly 35+ kilometers as if dropped from the cage before hitting the ground, applying much less energy. This makes more sense than the meteorite falling, hitting the ground with ~Country KE, and just sitting where it struck. The Bird Cage definitely stopped it before it simply slid through, and fell some tens of km.

 

[Antvasima]

I suppose that may make sense, but again, we need more input.

 

[Blanked]

"At least High 6-C to Likely 6-B" i think that would look good.

 

[Antvasima]

Hmm. We have still not received much input.

 

[Liger686]

This looks reasonable to me.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thanks for the input.

 

[PaChi2]

"At least High 6-C, at most 6-B"?

How would that sound?

 

[Bepo4151]

I don't see why the At least high 6-C is needed

 

[Blanked]

cin, why are we using the high end if we also have the low end calculation for Kuzan? shouldnt in those cases a sort of mid end be used?

 

[LordGinSama]

cin, why are we using the high end if we also have the low end calculation for Kuzan? shouldnt in those cases a sort of mid end be used?

IIRC correctly there wasn't a mid end of any of the Kuzan only the low end and the High end. The high end only further justifies the ranking of the OP top tiers. Do you want the link to the calc?

 

[Utenok123]

Better not to listen to William when it comes to One piece.

 

[CinCameron20]

@William - Kuzan's High end is being used, actually. The Low end assumes the freezing only goes some 40+ meters rather than 10,000 meters, which isn't even the deepest point of the water that was frozen in his feat. Doflamingo's High End is more of a "Method 2" but i put high end because it was obviously going to have a 10x higher result.

I was wrong about the height of the cage mostly because I just estimated, but taking the weight of that meteorite and dropping it at around 20km and letting it free fall would still result in Mountain+~Small Island AP at the moment of impact. That's actually around the AP the meteorite itself was calculated to apply for destruction to the city, but ofc, I don't think any of us could find it at this point.

All of the factors lean towards the High End for Doffy's calc to be far more reasonable than using direct contact (Low End).

 

[CinCameron20]

Also, it's "Likely 6-B". There's no reason for "High 6-C" anywhere in their tiering because we'd be dropping the Low End entirely.

 

[PaChi2]

just keep the low end because I feel lowballing is the safer route.

 

[CinCameron20]

? That's the reason?

 

[PaChi2]

yup. I always prefer lowballs. Thats why I suggested the At least High 6-C.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, in lack of more staff replies, I suppose that CinCameron20's suggestion can be applied.

 

[LordGinSama]

Well I mean you and Repp said that this seems reasonable but it seems fine. Also should we remove the "Likely" part on the profiles for the Younkou while we're at it?

 

[Antvasima]

Yes, they should be straight 6-B.

 

[Grudgeman1706]

I will reply to this thread on a later note. Sorry I haven't done it sooner but I gotta fix something about all of this so please do not close the thread or come to an agreement just yet.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[CinCameron20]

If there is an agreement some time later on and I'm not heard of for a day or so, someone else should apply edits. I am busy with a new schedule, so I can't be quite as active, and it has been wearing me out.

If I'm here, I'll apply all the edits since I know just about all the characters that would need to be messed with.

 

[Antvasima]

I do not think that there is anybody else available who knows enough about One Piece.

 

[-BANLK-]

The upgrade makes sense, I feel @Cin should apply the changes.

 

[Blanked]

cin, from the calc i saw it was only assumed he froze 10 000 meters, because the op planet is suposed to be ten times bigger but i dont get how did the result jump from 47 meters on 10000 meters which is around 230 times more.

 

[Grudgeman1706]

cin, from the calc i saw it was only assumed he froze 10 000 meters, because the op planet is suposed to be ten times bigger but i dont get how did the result jump from 47 meters on 10000 meters which is around 230 times more.

This is basically what I was going to point out. The calculation used makes a lot of faulty assumptions and has no grounds to assume such a enourmous depth just because the planet is bigger. I was going to get someone to recalculate THAN present my argument.