• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

One Piece: High 6-A downgrade

Status
Not open for further replies.
KingTempest

KingTempest

He/Him
VS Battles
Thread Moderator
21,105
30,050
Yo.

Since yall keep trying to make everybody High 6-A.
Imma remove High 6-A.
Thank you.

As it stands High 6-A was based on the calculations from Shiki in Strong World, the 2 1 Exaton feats.
The issue with those calculations are based on the fact that they're really out of range for everything we have accepted in the verse atm.

The closest calc to that value that scales to who those people scale to is 390 Teratons, 2500 times larger than that. Other than that, these 2 feats are the only things (that are accepted.

The consistency of High 6-B and lower is much more comprehendible, since all of the values in that ballpark are consistently in that ballpark.

On top of that, the High 6-A calcs aren't really super valid for the scaling chain.
The scaling is based off of Akainu having the most attack power from DF, but those calcs aren't attacking calcs. Moving an island passively and moving water aren't really feats of attacking. OP doesn't have universal energy systems based on sharing similar amounts of energy.

Even Shiki's other feat of Zanpa, the actual attacking move of him kicking, is closer in value to the other values.

WB has a 300-400 TT feat
Kaidou has a 300-400 TT feat
Shiki has a 300-400 TT feat
And more calcs

Scaling them to the values we have on the lower end side looks to be better.

On top of that, it makes backscaling easier. Since they aren't literally over 200x the value of their baseline, we can get better values to work off of.

This thread is meant for value organization. Not scaling. At all. Do not mention scaling.

Edit​

We can add "Possibly High 6-A" for the possible scaling to the Shiki calcs since they do come from his devil fruit and they can still possibly be in the scaling chain
 
KingTempest said:
We can add "Possibly High 6-A" for the possible scaling to the Shiki calcs since they do come from his devil fruit and they can still possibly be in the scaling chain
Click to expand...
I am against this idea, either we get hid of H6A entirely or we leave it as it is currently, cause this option would sooner or later have everyone at "possibly H6A".

Also, what about Fujitora's meteors? What's the tier of the strongest one?
 
XDragnoir said:
I am against this idea, either we get hid of H6A entirely or we leave it as it is currently, cause this option would sooner or later have everyone at "possibly H6A".
Click to expand...
Doesn't really matter, this is just a better safe end instead of saying they're solidly High 6-A
XDragnoir said:
Also, what about Fujitora's meteors? What's the tier of the strongest one?
Click to expand...
All the high ones are declined now, highest scaleable one is High 7-A i'm pretty sure
 
KingTempest said:
Doesn't really matter, this is just a better safe end instead of saying they're solidly High 6-A
Click to expand...
If they still have H6A in their profile then they are solid enough to have H6A in their profile.

Like, if something isn't solid then it will not be in the profiles, if it's in the profile we're accepting it as valid and solid, have it as a "possibly" changes absolutely nothing and only means it's not the only Tier Meta we use.
KingTempest said:
All the high ones are declined now, highest scaleable one is High 7-A i'm pretty sure
Click to expand...
Thanks.
 
good-family-guy.gif
 
KingTempest said:
Yo.

Since yall keep trying to make everybody High 6-A.
Imma remove High 6-A.
Thank you.

As it stands High 6-A was based on the calculations from Shiki in Strong World, the 2 1 Exaton feats.
The issue with those calculations are based on the fact that they're really out of range for everything we have accepted in the verse atm.

The closest calc to that value that scales to who those people scale to is 390 Teratons, 2500 times larger than that. Other than that, these 2 feats are the only things (that are accepted.

The consistency of High 6-B and lower is much more comprehendible, since all of the values in that ballpark are consistently in that ballpark.

On top of that, the High 6-A calcs aren't really super valid for the scaling chain.
The scaling is based off of Akainu having the most attack power from DF, but those calcs aren't attacking calcs. Moving an island passively and moving water aren't really feats of attacking. OP doesn't have universal energy systems based on sharing similar amounts of energy.

Even Shiki's other feat of Zanpa, the actual attacking move of him kicking, is closer in value to the other values.

WB has a 300-400 TT feat
Kaidou has a 300-400 TT feat
Shiki has a 300-400 TT feat
And more calcs

Scaling them to the values we have on the lower end side looks to be better.

On top of that, it makes backscaling easier. Since they aren't literally over 200x the value of their baseline, we can get better values to work off of.

This thread is meant for value organization. Not scaling. At all. Do not mention scaling.

Edit​

We can add "Possibly High 6-A" for the possible scaling to the Shiki calcs since they do come from his devil fruit and they can still possibly be in the scaling chain
Click to expand...
Agree with this, sad but nedeed
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
Ryu, KT’s basis isn’t just “hurr durr it’s not solid”. Read the OP, he argues why he doesn’t think the exaton Shiki feats are objectively concrete for AP scaling.
Click to expand...
His entire argument completely nulls the feats even working for scaling tho, that's the problem.

Either the feats are valid for scaling and everyone gets it from Akainu's scaling, as we do currently, or the feats aren't AP and thus don't scale to Akainu and anyone else.

It's either

Feats are AP > Feats scale to Akainu's DF > People scale to Akainu > More characters get H6A stats

Or:

Feats aren't AP > Feats don't scale to Akainu's DF > No one gets H6A from Akainu

We can't have:

Feats aren't AP > Feats don't Scale to Akainu's DF > Everyone still gets H6A as a possibly
 
XDragnoir said:
His entire argument completely nulls the feats even working for scaling tho, that's the problem.

Either the feats are valid for scaling and everyone gets it from Akainu's scaling, as we do currently, or the feats aren't AP and thus don't scale to Akainu and anyone else.

It's either

Feats are AP > Feats scale to Akainu's DF > People scale to Akainu > More characters get H6A stats

Or:

Feats aren't AP > Feats don't scale to Akainu's DF > No one gets H6A from Akainu

We can't have:

Feats aren't AP > Feats don't Scale to Akainu's DF > Everyone still gets H6A as a possibly
Click to expand...
Ryu

It's

"Feats are POSSIBLY scaleable" > Feats POSSIBLY scale to Akainu's DF > Everyone gets POSSIBLY
 
KingTempest said:
Ryu

It's

"Feats are POSSIBLY scaleable" > Feats POSSIBLY scale to Akainu's DF > Everyone gets POSSIBLY
Click to expand...
Bro, how can we have "possibly" scalable feats if your argument for a downgrade was 1 - H6A doesn't line up with other feats (i.e outlier) and 2 - The H6A feats aren't attacks and thus shouldn't scale to Akainu

These two points make the feats completely unreliable to be on profiles, that and everyone with H6A would still have H6A so i don't even get why you're trying to keep it as a possibly.

There's no "possibly scalable" here, either the feats ARE attacks and scale to Akainu or they ARE NOT attacks and don't scale to Akainu, you can't say something is red and blue at the same time.
 
XDragnoir said:
Bro, how can we have "possibly" scalable feats if your argument for a downgrade was 1 - H6A doesn't line up with other feats (i.e outlier) and 2 - The H6A feats aren't attacks and thus shouldn't scale to Akainu

These two points make the feats completely unreliable to be on profiles, that and everyone with H6A would still have H6A so i don't even get why you're trying to keep it as a possibly.

There's no "possibly scalable" here, either the feats ARE attacks and scale to Akainu or they ARE NOT attacks and don't scale to Akainu, you can't say something is red and blue at the same time.
Click to expand...
Because the point is that there's a chance that they are scaleable even though they have more supporting otherwise

It's not red and blue, it's deadass just "it's not scaleable, but since they're all rooted from the same power, they could be"
 
Ryu it’s not a hard concept to grasp.

KT is saying that moving the islands isn’t exactly an offensive application of Shiki’s DF. Thus, there is some skepticism in saying Akainu having better offensive power, means he scales above moving the islands. This being backed by the consistency around different tiers far lower.

However, one could claim that if Shiki could move his islands with X energy, he could attack with X energy, since both are done with the same fruit. Which KT acknowledges as the possibility of them scaling.

The reason KT isn’t saying it’s one or the other is because they’re two entirely separate claims each with a decent standing to argue upon. Hence, possibly for those who don’t think one interpretation objectively outweighs the other.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
However, one could claim that if Shiki could move his islands with X energy, he could attack with X energy, since both are done with the same fruit. Which KT acknowledges as the possibility of them scaling.
Click to expand...
To use this kind of logic we'd need a UES, which OP simply doesn't have and KT literally says so in the OP.

This entire "possibly H6A" addition is based on a bunch of maybes, maybe they're AP so maybe they scale to Akainu, the OP is literally KT saying "we shouldn't use these feats at all, they're flawed (in consistency, scaling and logic)" and we are still going to use them because maybe they aren't flawed?

Yeah, this logic doesn't work for me, idc if y'all disagree, but this surely makes no sense IMO.
 
I don’t have any one piece knowledge but… if the purpose of this thread is to take away the feats because they aren’t consistent… why would they remain on the profiles as a possibility?

Whether Akainu is > Shiki or not is irrelevant. The feats are an outlier, no? So why do they deserve any mention whatsoever as if they’re valid for scaling?

If a feat came out right now that had someone perform a 5-C feat that would upscale the entire verse, even the low tiers, to 5-C, that would not get a “possibly” because it’s a clear outlier that should not be considered. The same should go for Shiki’s H6A feats. Whether he can use that energy for attacking or not does not matter, the feats themselves are outlier and should be disregarded, per the OP.

It feels like you’re trying to downgrade while not actually downgrading. H6A should be removed entirely or remain unchanged, I don’t see much logic in attempting to claim they’re an outlier but should still be applicable to everyone as if they aren’t.
 
XDragnoir said:
To use this kind of logic we'd need a UES, which OP simply doesn't have and KT literally says so in the OP.

This entire "possibly H6A" addition is based on a bunch of maybes, maybe they're AP so maybe they scale to Akainu, the OP is literally KT saying "we shouldn't use these feats at all, they're flawed (in consistency, scaling and logic)" and we are still going to use them because maybe they aren't flawed?

Yeah, this logic doesn't work for me, idc if y'all disagree, but this surely makes no sense IMO.
Click to expand...
It’s not about a UES…
Ryu there is a cognitive dissonance between us rn, and I’ll leave it at that
 
Damn, KT getting to make the thread before I could.


For what it's worth, I was planning to address issues in one of the High 6-A Shiki calcs anyway which would likely lead to it being removed, making the High 6-A ratings even more unreliable.
 
KingTempest said:
Yo.

Since yall keep trying to make everybody High 6-A.
Imma remove High 6-A.
Thank you.

As it stands High 6-A was based on the calculations from Shiki in Strong World, the 2 1 Exaton feats.
The issue with those calculations are based on the fact that they're really out of range for everything we have accepted in the verse atm.

The closest calc to that value that scales to who those people scale to is 390 Teratons, 2500 times larger than that. Other than that, these 2 feats are the only things (that are accepted.

The consistency of High 6-B and lower is much more comprehendible, since all of the values in that ballpark are consistently in that ballpark.

On top of that, the High 6-A calcs aren't really super valid for the scaling chain.
The scaling is based off of Akainu having the most attack power from DF, but those calcs aren't attacking calcs. Moving an island passively and moving water aren't really feats of attacking. OP doesn't have universal energy systems based on sharing similar amounts of energy.

Even Shiki's other feat of Zanpa, the actual attacking move of him kicking, is closer in value to the other values.

WB has a 300-400 TT feat
Kaidou has a 300-400 TT feat
Shiki has a 300-400 TT feat
And more calcs

Scaling them to the values we have on the lower end side looks to be better.

On top of that, it makes backscaling easier. Since they aren't literally over 200x the value of their baseline, we can get better values to work off of.

This thread is meant for value organization. Not scaling. At all. Do not mention scaling.

Edit​

We can add "Possibly High 6-A" for the possible scaling to the Shiki calcs since they do come from his devil fruit and they can still possibly be in the scaling chain
Click to expand...
Agree
 
KingTempest said:
Because the point is that there's a chance that they are scaleable even though they have more supporting otherwise

It's not red and blue, it's deadass just "it's not scaleable, but since they're all rooted from the same power, they could be"
Click to expand...
I dont think there would even be a possibility the scaling is based on Akainu having a fruit that is somehow stronger than Shiki's even if Akainu does have a more powerful fruit that doesnt mean akainu can scale as high as his fruit, otherwise we would have things like Luffy pre time skip scaling to gear 5 because they are the same fruit. The AP of a devil fruit depend on th users master over it, sure it helps having "the strongest fruit".
IF we had a confirmation that he has an awakening which is supposedly the top of fruit mastery you could have a case
 
Sadly to see High 6-A go away but i do agree with the downgrade, i can only hope the Final Saga will have someone drop some High 6-A feats.

And for the scaling, the only characters i can see who should concretely scale to fully High 6-B are only Yonko, Admirals and everyone at that level.

Most Yonko Commanders, without the massive gap provided by Shiki, should simply go back to 6-C.
 
Last edited:
Sorry if this sounds dumb (I’m no master at one piece scaling), but wouldn’t we still have the Bajrang Gun feat from Luffy to make One Piece High 6-A?

Outside of that though, dropping the Shiki stuff makes sense since like you said, it isn’t really attacking.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Overlord775
Jinbe should be 6-A/5-C
2
Replies
42
Views
1K
Overlord775
Overlord775
Reiner04
  • Locked
Ben 10: High 6-A, possibly Low 5-B? upgrade.
5 6 7
Replies
262
Views
11K
Reiner04
Reiner04
KingTempest
  • Locked
One Piece: Shlinkleheard Binklebeard 5-C Scaling
2
Replies
67
Views
5K
KingTempest
KingTempest
That_moron2
Boa Hancock Downgrade
2 3
Replies
94
Views
4K
That_moron2
That_moron2
KingTempest
  • Locked
One Piece: High 6-A downgrade Pt. 2
5 6 7
Replies
269
Views
11K
KingTempest
KingTempest
Back
Top