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One Piece General Discussion: Elbaph
- Thread starter KingTempest
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Stefano4444
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I didn't notice he was here lol, yeah he shouldn't get fully Low 5-B here as his best feat was overpower and potentially oneshotting Jack.
Thought considering that he potentially a member of Joyboy's crew you could argue that he could scale to Emet, so maybe a possibly would work better.
Hasty12345
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No shot you listed Shakky
Stefano4444
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Considering that Gloriosa at her Prime was consider strong enough for Rocks to allow her in his crew of monsters, and that Shakky its her successor its not illogical to assume that they have similar strength, same could be apply Boa Hancock.
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She was literally a Kuja Empress... the island of Haki proficient warriors where the strongest out of all of them rules. You shouldn't be surprised that she's strong.
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I'd like to add Douzan, Gion and Tokikake (2 admiral candidates)
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Having S-Shark's durability, Kizaru, and Nusjuro on this list but not Sanji is pretty wild imo considering he had the upper hand at least once in his interactions with all three of them without using Ifrit Jambe a single time.
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That's the loosest possible powerscaling. "These two characters both knew Joyboy personally, so they scale to each other".
Stefano4444
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Did Sanji ever manage to trully damage S-Shark with his Flame On? He overpower S-Shanks and can withstand his attacks, but still the fight then goes off screen and next time we only see already captured with the other Seraphins with no context of how it happen. There its also to account his flames have Limited Durability Negation meaning any damage may don't be based on pure AP.
And like even Post ACoC Luffy had difficulty damaging S-Bear and S-Hawk due of their Lunarian physiologies comparing them to Kaido and had to use Gear 4th to fight them, and i doubt Sanji even with Ifrit its suppost to be at that level (at least yet).
Nusjuro was not fighting him and was targeting the other Straw Hats when Sanji attack him so technically it was off guard and even then he quickly recover it.
And for Kizaru Sanji only blocked on laser which while did impress the admiral it didn't do much else, and later when he tried to protect Vegapunk he was unable to stop Kizaru who quickly kick him away before finish Vegapunk off for good.
I personally don't believe at the moment Sanji has any good justification for Low 5-B, maybe as possibly but that's it.
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Stefano4444
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Gion and Tokikake only as possibly as beside be admiral candidates they have nothing else.
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Yes, but Rayleigh also had to save her from base level Sommers.
Hasty12345
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My problem isn't Shakky is strong, my problem is an acocless, fruitless, featless character can blow up a moon based on the fact she leads a bunch of fodder.
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Sanji made S-Shark (who apparently has Low 5-B durability) not only go white-eyed from a regular kick, but also made him react with visible shock and fear after Sanji casually face-tanked a point-blank attack similar to S-Hawk's reaction when fighting Zoro. That definitely indicates that Sanji was operating on a completely different level than any of the Seraphim.
Luffy never attacked S-Hawk once. In fact, S-Hawk ran away the moment Kaku and Zoro put up even the smallest bit of a fight so that he could target weaker opponents.
Luffy and Lucci struggled to damage S-Bear, who is explicitly stated to be far more durable than the other Seraphim. Sanji's peak having more firepower than a Boundman Luffy who isn't using any advanced Haki or Hybrid Lucci is not outrageous, and should honestly be the expectation given we're in the final saga lol.
Sanji was in front of Nusjuro, yelling and running straight to him. Sanji then deflected Nusjuro's sword and used it as a stepping stool before kicking him in the jaw.
So unless Nusjuro...
- Is deaf (couldn't hear Sanji call out to him)
- Is blind (couldn't see Sanji jump off his sword)
- Has terrible Observation Haki (despite constantly using it to detect Vegapunk's transponder snail)
How quickly he recovered is irrelevant because Egghead Sanji doesn't have Conqueror's Haki. Either way, this is just a false claim. Nusjuro did not recover from Sanji's kick. He had to make an entirely new Zoan head from his chest to bite Sanji. His head was still engulfed in flames and recoiled back from the force of Sanji's kick, meaning he couldn't even properly finish regenerating.
Keep in mind that Nusjuro is a Great Swordsman that has a Supreme Grade Blade. The fact that a nameless kick from Sanji without even activating his Exoskeleton or Ifrit Jambe was able to overpower a Haki-coated blade swung with the intent to kill by someone of Nusjuro's caliber is very impressive.
This is so dishonest. Notice how you only considered an off-guard attack as a valid feat when it was to demerit Sanji
Not only was Sanji literally facing the opposite direction as Kizaru and carrying 3 meter tall corpse in both arms, but Kizaru's kick only drew very minor amounts of blood from Sanji and wasn't even enough to knock him down. In fact, the literal next panel had Sanji recovering from the kick in roughly the same amount of time it took for Kizaru to launch a follow-up attack at Vegapunk.
Sanji vs Kizaru was a top tier feat no matter how you spin it. Sanji didn't "block" a laser. He destroyed it. It got popped as if somebody put a pin to a balloon. Kizaru didn't break the nonchalant persona he's been dragging on for 15 years in-story and say that he's in a pickle for being expected to defeat either Luffy or Sanji just for Sanji to not be considered to even possibly be on a similar playing field as him.
It's not even narratively inconsistent for Sanji to be capable of fighting Admirals as in the end of Wano, he sensed Aramaki's power and was still disappointed that he didn't get to fight him after Shanks interrupted.
Yeah this is wild to me and makes no sense at all. You have Aramaki, Kizaru, Saturn, S-Shark, and Nusjuro at Low 5-B, but not the character who can have an entire slideshow of just his feats against them made.
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Sommers is strong.Yes, but Rayleigh also had to save her from base level Sommers.
Shakky was already chained up by the time Sommers grabbed her, so I wouldn't say that it was a lack of strength that forced her to need saving.
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What tier is Kachon? xd
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8-A+ normally
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One Piece Wikia listed Douzan and War god different characters xd
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Because we don't know they're the same yet.
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That name drop from Imu will always be funny to me bc he had no business doing that
I like to imagine Imu as being somewhat nostalgic about the Void Century
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Watching Kachon defend Sanji is like watching Van Gogh paint a masterpiece
Stefano4444
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Which by itself its not definitive proof considering that at the beginning of Wano Luffy manage to white-eyed a drunked Dragon Kaido with Gear 3rd yet we know that he didn't do any damage to him, same happen with Zoro against Flame On King who tank one of his strongest attack.
S-Shark only has Low 5-B Dura via their flames, where in terms of AP he only see him bully weaker Straw Hats like Robin and Nami and for the most part he may downscale from S-Hawk who can press Blackbeard into using Armament Haki to defend himself and two be somewhat of a threat to Zoro and Kaku.
Beside that AP wise they isn't much else that suggest they are Low 5-B in AP. So Sanji tanking his attack doesn't grant him Low 5-B.
Beside the fact that the statement was referring to both S-Bear and S-Hawk, not just the former and then we have even Zoro stating that their durability remind him of King, so yes their Dura derive from their Lunarian physiology.
And if we assume S-Bear its specifically more durable than the other Seraphim then you are not strengthening Sanji's Low 5-B if anything you weaken it, since then S-Shark.
Why you would assume that Boundman wasn't using any Advanced Armament or Conqueror despite the fact that he already realize their have Kaido's level of toughness with even Lucci had to remind him that just brute force isn't going to put them down?
He was running in front yes but Nusjuro was right in the middle of his attack to Franky and Bonney with his sword, Sanji wasn't technically blocking an attack meant to him.
Unless you believe Franky and Bonney are people of Nusjuro's caliber, then no in that specific instances its unlikely that he swung the blade at max power, especially when Bonney only unlocked her Gear 5th later.
Meanwhile in comparation with King of Hell Koro (when Zoro has all his swords and let Enma releasing all Armament and Conqueror Haki at once), we see Nusjuro actually notice him in time and properly defend him which result with both send each other away, here say that Zoro did in fact match Nusjuro full strength its more believable.
And when it come to injure the Five Elders its also a bit tricky when damaging them its a legit feat or not, as the Five Elders (and the God's Knights) often got injured/damaged by attacks weaker than them as due of their immortality they have less need to properly defend themselves as they can still regenerate.
If you expecting to me to accept that a Current Base Sanji (even without Ifrit Jambe) its already on a similar playing as Kizaru, the same guy who clashed with Gear 5th Luffy for extended period of times and its clearly above Awakening Lucci, someone who can stalemate Zoro and push him to using his full strength, then i'm sorry to tell you but NO, not based what has show until now.
Capable to fight Admirals in one thing as Top Commanders like Jozu and Vista can do it (and Sanji after awakening his hidden genetic enhancements its at that level at least even without Ifrit Jambe), but fight on par with them or pressing into using their full strength its another story which i currently don't believe can be apply to Sanji.
And like even with Ifrit Jambe he still needed multiple named attacks to finally defeat Hybrid Queen, meanwhile Aramaki could overpower both Queen and King (who should have recover most of their strength due of be Zoan users) while not using any of his strongest moves.
Even Big Mom with amnesia could easily overpower Zoan Queen with just her natural physical strength without Haki, where during Whole Cake Island Luffy in Boundman could actually clash with her and even briefly match her even against her Armament Haki before de-transforming into his Base, yet that version still got oneshotted by a full power Base Kaido, and i doubt any admirals would be oneshotted if they were in the same position.
When Aramaki retreated Sanji only say that him and the other Straw Hats didn't need to help Yamato and the Red Scabbards, i don't see how you can interpretate as Sanji wanting to test his strength or believing that he can fight an admiral alone.
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Not comparatively speaking without Imu powering him up.
That is a better point, yes.
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Stefano I'll reply in a bit.
Comparatively speaking Sommers is still strong. He had several minor exchanges with Gaban and even blocked a powerful Armament Haki strike by using a thorn shield.
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Franky is possibly Low 5-B too. Hanafuda was clashing with Kaido before both formed an alliance. 17 year old Ace beat Hanafuda. You forgot John. Polo Gram was able to take on Kyo. Shirahosi is an ancient weapon Poseidon who is stated if in the wrong hands, Shirahoshi's powers can sink the entire world into the ocean. Another 5-B are Davy D. Jones and Earth god (mentioned in Skypiea). Nefertari D. Lily is possibly one since she had opportunity to rule over the world.
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Stefano4444
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Based on what? Sent St. Marcus Mars away was a combine effort between him Gear 5th Bonney, Sanji and Gear 5th Luffy, and i doubt each was equally contribute or at least it can't be proven and have him scaling to Gear 5th Luffy its just wrong.
His laser did damage St. Jaygarcia Saturn but like i stated before injuring characters with broken regen its more a case by case since its often a trope for this kind of characters to get hurt/injure by much weaker attacks, like Base Bonney could injure him with a single knife and Usopp did something similar against Gunko despite clearly potrayer her as the superior physical fighter. Even beyond OP we have other examples like Martian Manhunter, Deadpool or Majin Buu.
His best AP feats are oneshotting a Vice Admiral and defeating Sasaki with Franky General and then eliminating with his laser.
We don't necessary know the details of the fight, beside that wasn't was the same version of Ace who struggle defeating Jinbe for 10 days, only to get stomped by WB?
Unless you believe Jinbe should also be Low 5-B, i'm iffy about this.
True but i assume this wouldn't be applied to her physicals? Like her commanding the Sea King isn't the same thing as her be able to sink the world with a punch.
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His radical beam made Big Mom wary of the attack to the point that she shielded herself with a homie. The same attack that the Vegapunk satellite told S-Shark to dodge cuz he thought seraphims are not ready for laser tests yet.
5-C Spade Pirates key Ace can work I guess xd
Low 5-B with Sea Kings can work I guess xd
Stefano4444
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In case you're interested, i also made a blog with my general thoughts on how the scaling for Post Timeskip should be handle.
Of course free to disagree or agree with any of my placements.
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I only disagree with 5-C Zunisha xd
Stefano4444
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Do you think he should be higher or lower?
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Is there a way to make Jack 5-C? xd
Stefano4444
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Jack its on par or at least relative to members of the Red Scabbards such as Inuarashi, Nekomamushi and Ashura Doji. The latter 2 along with Denjiro and Kin'emon where able to leave a large slash on Dragon Kaido in a combine attack, causing more damage that Boundman Luffy alone did before.
Now i do not necessarely believe that each Red Scabbards are above Boundman Luffy as its was a combine attack (i do believe the opposite), but it should still enough to make them downscale to baseline 5-C along with Jack, as back in Dressrosa Boundman Luffy could shatter Doflamingo's strings by just transforming, which where durable enough withstand Issho meteors which had been calc to be in the 5-C range, and when combined the result goes a bit above 3 times baseline 5-C.
Beside that Jack should be comparable to weaker Top Commanders like Cracker, who its capable to damage the same Boundman Luffy, and in general i believe the Sweet Commanders and All Stars should at least somewhat downscale to WB's Top Commanders like Jozu, Vista and Ace who are capable to match non named/casual attacks from Top Tiers like the Admirals and Mihawk, attacks should be relative to Issho casual meteors dropping.
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LastSBS TIME!!!
Freaky Oda as always
The former kingdom of Ruskaina
Marco's Full Name
Oda explains about Pell mentioning the 5 flying abilities
Imagine asking a question to give one of the twins not sharing the same birthday
About Rocks D. Xebec! (14ft tall is crazy)
ODA CONFIRMS HE PERSONALLY CHOOSES THE VOICE ACTORS FOR HIS IMPORTANT CHARACTERS
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Crocodile Attack Potency - 5-C (Repelled Sakazuki. Not concerned at all about facing the strongest swordsman in the world, even going so far as to threaten him. Became more powerful than before, and his bounty increased to Beli 1,965,000,000 after the timeskip, as he easily defeated Vice Admiral Stainless and his fleet.) Durability - 5-C (Took Brilliant Punk from Jozu. Was completely unharmed after confronting Mihawk and Sakazuki), higher with gold hook (Blocked a slash from Mihawk without being broken)
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Daz Bones (Mr. 1) Durability - 5-C (Blocked a slash from Mihawk. Took a slash from Mihawk) 
