Hasty12345
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King is stated by Zoro to not be a swordsman.
You can also simply not know what a duck looks like and be mistaken.
Your argument isn't an argument.
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One Piece General Discussion: Elbaph
- Thread starter KingTempest
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Your argument isn't an argument.
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it doesn't matter anyway... Shanks or Zoro can be a swordsmen and still not get the WSS title by doing what Zoro said against King to win the fight
I initially thought that it said shanks, being one of the best swordsman in the world here but it actually talks about his swordsmanship, not him being a swordsman
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So revise King's profile, cause it directly calls his ass a swordsman.
It also could be because King turns into a ******* dinosaur, tries to steal people's swords, and blows himself up, while Zoro is 1000% fine with Haki usage seeing as he spams the shit.
One swims, walks, and can fly, one runs on exclusively land. Your argument throws Occam's Razor out the window, and for what? Ya can literally wait for Shanks to just fight Mihawk again, or for Mihawk to collect an anti-feat or two and knock him down a peg.
Statements<feats after all, and the only reason Mihawk is allowed to upscale from Shanks is because all of his fights so far have been casual and he has taken literally zero ******* damage from any of them.
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Also if we being fr... Shanks isn't the type to fight respectfully and honorably... Like what King did in the fight
I can see Shanks fighting however he wants, just a sword as his main weapon
I can see Shanks fighting however he wants, just a sword as his main weapon
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Zoro is fine letting his ambitions of swordsmanships go if it means making Luffy pirate king... That is why he said what he said against King
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To be fair he had someone else shoot him(not saying Shanks doesn't have a history of some dishonorable tactics, BTW)Also if we being fr... Shanks isn't the type to fight respectfully and honorably... Like what King did in the fight
So can I, but until ***** boy is stated to not be a swordsman or Mihawk gets an anti-feat, I'm still comfy putting Mihawk above him.
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And this changes my statement why? Zoro still has that ambition to my knowledge, and every sword user in the verse Hakidicks anyone they can lol
Hasty12345
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Who said using haki means you're not a swordsman?
The profiles also say Shanks is equal to the WSM, WB title diffs Mihawk.
Occam's razor doesn't work because Zoro tells us having a sword and using haki doesn't make you a swordsman.
DaMonkeMan
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Even if we argue Shanks has more than swordsmanship, the question is what can he have that makes it so he isn't an actual swordsman?
Is it a Devil Fruit? I can't imagine that'd be it since Kaku and Issho have fruits and are still swordsmen.
Is it some type of martial art? I also doubt that since he only has one arm (makes it very hard to fight like Garp or Sabo) and kicking doesn't seem as efficient as fighting with a sword especially given that Gryphon can equally clash with Whitebeard's naginata and Yoru (both of which are supreme grade blades).
I just don't see any way for him to fight that would make it so he's not a swordsman without also actively handicapping him hard
Is it a Devil Fruit? I can't imagine that'd be it since Kaku and Issho have fruits and are still swordsmen.
Is it some type of martial art? I also doubt that since he only has one arm (makes it very hard to fight like Garp or Sabo) and kicking doesn't seem as efficient as fighting with a sword especially given that Gryphon can equally clash with Whitebeard's naginata and Yoru (both of which are supreme grade blades).
I just don't see any way for him to fight that would make it so he's not a swordsman without also actively handicapping him hard
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By the basis of a title given to him by others in the verse..? If that's the case you should have Kaido > anyone in the verse also
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he still has the ambition yes... But at any moment he can start fighting without swordsmanships... Which wouldn't grant him wss if he fought that way against Mihawk
Hasty12345
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It's not about what you fight with, being a swordsman is abiding by a set of beliefs. Zoro doesn't stop using swordskills when he declares he'd forgo being a swordsman to beat King if it means Luffy becomes PK.
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I'm not going to dignify this with a proper response. Look at the previous page.
And WSM is a title shared, certainly. If we want to hardasses about this, Shanks was never stated to be WSM after Whitebeard up and croaked, so he either was never equal to Whitebeard(Doubtful, lol, considering his clash with Akainu) or WSM is something referring to Primebeard.
Zoro also doesn't like it when people try to steal his shit.
By the basis of his title and other statements saying Shanks may not be up to snuff with him anymore. But like I said, feats have power over statements, so I maintain a wait and see attitude.
Also Kaidou has a lot of ******* forms, there's a difference between his base and him turning into a fire dragon.
DaMonkeMan
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All I'm gonna say is Luffy or Garp would never take time out of their day to learn Roger's sword techniques and perfect them. Hell even Law probably wouldn't do that and he uses his sword a LOT.
There's a reason Shanks has been fighting with swords since he was a child and has bothered to fight swordsmen like Mihawk multiple times (even trying to duel with him after he lost his arm) and learn advanced sword techniques. He wouldn't do all this if he wasn't a committed swordsman.
Hasty12345
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I'm not going to dignify this response by looking at the previous page.
My point was the profiles have loads of things wrong with them.
Good for him?
He still will forgo being a swordsman for Luffy and still use a swordd.
Retaining skills from a time he trained in swordsmanship doesn't mean he still abides by whatever code makes you a swordsman, guess we can argue with Zoro as to what that is.
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Fair
Well make a general CRT then just fixing the little things lol
And we have no idea what Zoro's codes here are, for all we know it includes [REDACTED]
What's a swordd?
DaMonkeMan
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Since when was Zoro the benchmark for who is and isn't a swordsman?
Shiryu is a swordsman and he's the complete opposite of Zoro. He sneak attacks people, uses hostages, and kills people far weaker than him on purpose purely because he gets pleasure from it. That is the complete opposite of what someone like Zoro or Oden would do but I never saw someone claim Shiryu isn't a swordsman.
At the end of the day, there isn't a definitive way that a swordsman should behave. They all have different fighting styles, beliefs, and codes. Since, yknow, that's what stops them from being generic carbon copies of eachother who all fight like robotic meatheads with no personality or drive.
Hasty12345
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He's not, but it's clear holding a sword and using one doesn't make you a swordsman.
Who said Shiryu was a swordsman?
DaMonkeMan
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My bad I confused him for a different character. I forgot about his interaction with Magellan where Magellan said he'd hand him his boxing gloves if he played nice and cooperated with them. I don't know why I'd assume that Shiryu consistently wields a sword every single time we see him fight with him even being a parallel to Zoro in terms of how much he loves and needs his sword.
Hasty12345
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The core issues here is whether or not using a sword makes you a swordsman when Zoro doesn't think so. You can't keep using the fact he uses a sword to prove he's a swordsman when that fact is what's in dispute.
DaMonkeMan
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If he solely fights with a sword and is skilled with one what are you going to call him?
What specific term do you use for someone like that?
Hasty12345
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The same one Mihawk's vivre card uses for Shanks, sword user because they use a sword but don't abide by whatever code makes you a swordsman.
DaMonkeMan
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Go to sleep man.
Hasty12345
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It's disingenuous to say abiding by a code has no say in whether you're a swordsman or not when Mihawk brings it up in his introduction, and Zoro alludes to it in Wano. It's not some made up fan fiction.
Mihawk's vivre card doesn't call Shanks a swordsman either, if that's not a clear indication using a sword =/= swordsman idk what is.
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To be blunt.
In One Piece, everybody with a sword is considered a swordsman.
Hasty12345
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Also to be blunt.
I obviously disagree.
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Oda called Big Mom a swordsman and she has no type of "way of the sword"
Oda called King a swordsman and he blatantly has no training with the sword
Hasty12345
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Are you referring to Vivre cards?
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For both yes
Hasty12345
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I think you can assume my response to that without much thought.
I’m fine to agree to disagree, I have no intention of making any CRTs for the verse, I mostly just enjoy talking about One Piece.
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This is fr valid... 85% of fans don't think like that
Does do not exist, either incorrect mistranslation or misinterpreting what it says
Even in Shanks vivrecard it says how he evolved from fighting mihawk... To then being capable of fighting Wb equally
There's legit no statement that prove which is stronger... But Shanks has the feats of having power, Mihawk has the blatant statement of being the best/most skill in swordsmanship only
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True... But idk it can still depend on if the translations are correct or not (Since swordsmanships words can translate and transfer to something else)
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Didn't see swordswomen in her vivrecard or anything alike... Only this existed
It doesn't even say swordsmanship but a sword technique instead also (Also seems more like she can handle the power of using the swords that way, seems to be what it means)
yee he legit has a Masked Swordsman statement
Bananossauro
They/Them- 106
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ain't he (and shanks for that matter) in the "swordsman" colorspread?
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that does not exist... Unless you're talking about the fan art section?
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DaMonkeMan
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I don't trust Vivre Cards considering how they never just said that Zoro has Conq Haki (among other things), but if even those are saying that people like Big Mom are swordsman, then they likely are swordsmen.
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I've noticed some scaling discrepancies in the profiles of the top tiers that I want to make a thread to address either this weekend or next week. Things like Kaidou scaling to Moon level partly out of scaling to Kozuki Oden but Oden scales to Moon level+.
Not going to be any sweeping downgrades as part of this thread but the small issues are mounting up.
Not going to be any sweeping downgrades as part of this thread but the small issues are mounting up.
Bananossauro
They/Them- 106
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Oh damn, didnt know it was fan art mb
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Yeah
