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Kuzan over Garp is contentious, and Blackbeard over Luffy is brave, but probably true. Other than that and having Queen and King like one space too high each, this list is good.
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One Piece General Discussion: Elbaph
- Thread starter KingTempest
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Within tiers, they aren't ordered.
DaMonkeMan
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Law Sanji and Hancock on the same tier as Kizaru Issho and Greenbull feels so wrong. I'm not entirely sure if Zoro and Rayleigh are equal to them either (or at the least I think they don't scale to Kizaru's full speed)
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How come?
Law and Sanji have feats to back it up, and Hancock is portrayed to be really strong (databook statements and she, Tsuru, and Mihawk are the only 3 people in the world he didn't troll when he came into contact with them)
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Glad people aren't always doing that, I've fallen into the trap of assuming people are every time.
DaMonkeMan
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Such as?
I mean, Law clashing with BB was VERY impressive, so I suppose you could argue he can clash with the Admirals, but just having great AP and striking strength (or what ever it's called) alone ain't enough to take down an Admiral.
Idk what Sanji has under his belt. His IJ beatdown on Queen was impressive but not enough to clash with the Admirals and/or beat them.
I suppose that's fair. Two top tiers complimented her strength a lot (Sengoku prior to retirement and BB).
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Good thing Law is one of the hax-iest, most versatile, and most tactical fighters in the series. And his Haki is nothing to scoff at either. He can definitely hold his own against Admirals. Not too sure about beating one just yet though.
Harming a flame on Lunarian in his base, stopping a laser from Kizaru in his base and taking minuscule damage from one (whether he got hit or not is still debatable), deflecting an attack from Saturn and dodging several of his attacks, taking an eye blast from Saturn pretty well when it could cause Gear 5 Luffy to bleed quite a bit, destroying a charged laser from Kizaru in his Exoskeleton, shrugging off a kick from him, blitzing and stopping a two-handed Haki coated sword swing from Nusjuro and socking him in the chin, taking a bite from him and seemingly not sustaining much damage.
He still hasn't even used Ifrit Jambe yet in Egghead. He can definitely give an Admiral a run for their money. He's got the strength, the speed, the regeneration, and the Haki to contend.
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Discussion topics I was just thinking of:
1. What "YCs" would make good(like, actual, efficient, do-their-job type of good) Warlords, Yonkou, or Captains in general, if they weren't on their big crew, and how would that have changed things?
2. What character deserve a higher rank/status and why? (This post is excluding Garp and Chopper, because we all know what's going on there.)
1. What "YCs" would make good(like, actual, efficient, do-their-job type of good) Warlords, Yonkou, or Captains in general, if they weren't on their big crew, and how would that have changed things?
2. What character deserve a higher rank/status and why? (This post is excluding Garp and Chopper, because we all know what's going on there.)
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Only one I can think of are Katakuri for Warlord
Oven should be a Sweet Commander. Koby should be a Vice Admiral.
DaMonkeMan
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I don't think he did this, and it'd especially make no sense anyway because Zoro couldn't do it and Zoro with Santoryu and Iai moves like Shishi Sonson > Base Sanji
True that. He did get hit (if you're referring to the panel I'm thinking of), but he endured it pretty easily
True.
True.
Think you already said this but yeah, you're correct, he did do that.
I mean, it did visibly hurt him (enough to make him drop Vegapunk from the pain), but yeah.
I don't think he "stopped" it as much as he just used it to propel himself and kick him before it could reach Bonney and Franky. Still impressive, obviously, just not the same as stopping the strike.
And that bite did seem to hurt him somewhat, I think he was down for a few pages after it. Could be wrong though.
Meh..
On one hand he does have some great feats here and there, but on the other, he's up against guys who could take ACoA Snakeman punches to their arms like a mosquito bit them, and CoA ( and/or ACoC) punches from Old Garp.
DaMonkeMan
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Perospero*
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Why would Sanji need to use the blade to propel himself? He can literally use Sky Walk. The impact mark from Sanji kicking the blade and the tremble marks around the blade afterwards implies that Sanji's kick stopped it.
We've only see him fall from the bite so far. It didn't seem to do significant damage, but either way that's still very impressive considering how the Gorosei > Lucci and a non-exoskeleton Sanji can take attacks from them and be fine.
Unironically Snakeman scales below/around Base Sanji with Diable or Base Exoskeleton Sanji in terms of AP.
We can't say "it makes no sense" when we see it in the panel and it's not like he doesn't have supporting feats to put him on that level so we can't say it's an outlier. Even though the fight was off-screened, we know Sanji was putting in the work because afterwards Bonney was like "Woah Sanji is so cool he can cook and kick ass." Kind of implies he was dominating.
DaMonkeMan
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..Good question tbh.
Jumping off the blade looking cooler is the only thing I can come up with ngl. Lol
You're right, I'm just saying it was definitely painful for him, even if it wasn't that significant.
No offense, but stuff like this is why I want to avoid powerscaling more.
DaMonkeMan
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Nah nah I get saying Sanji is strong (again there's that statement from the magazine calling him and Zoro incredibly strong members of the crew), but saying base Sanji > Santoryu/Iai Zoro is crazy.
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I don't think it's that crazy when Zoro has Buso, even stronger Buso (like he used to finish Lucci off with), Enma Unleased, Hao Infusion, Asura, and then KoH, with different level of attacks within each amp.
DaMonkeMan
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Really? I think there are some great options for high ranks.
-Kuzan could be a Warlord or Yonkou if he'd killed the Blackbeard Pirates.
-Mihawk could be a Yonkou if he chose to assemble a crew.
-Zoro could be the ideal Pirate Hunter, and this a great Warlord, if he wasn't working with Luffy. Johnny and Yosaku could be his underlings if they wanted.
-Marco would've probably been a Yonkou if his side won the Payback War.
-Ace would've probably been a Yonkou if Marineford had gone a lot better.
-Beckman is highly intelligent and powerful, so I believe he could assemble a powerful crew in any career.
-Etc.
I mean, I don't think he's below Snack, so he could be there.
I think Koby should have his own Marine Base at this point.
DaMonkeMan
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Btw I specifically answered like this because I did not feel like having a conversation as dumb as "Is base Sanji on par with/above Santoryu/Iai Zoro??", that shit's for the birds bruh. Again, no offense, but oh my stars what a goofy topic
DaMonkeMan
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Though that's not nearly as bad as "Kizaru low diffed Snakeman" when the dude didn't even seem to really hurt Luffy and most of that damage was from the barrier.
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I mean you can believe that, but if anything the take that Zoro without using Haki is anywhere close to being far above Base Sanji is goofy because they've always been portrayed and given feats of around the same level at the least.
I have no idea where the idea of Sanji's AP being bad came from. The reason he's scary is because of the strength of his kicks, not because his speed or the heat of his flames. It's always been this way.
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Aren't the Barrier Lasers only Base Kaku level?
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"Ummm, actually, Force = Mass x Acceleration"
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The barrier was at 73% when Kaku was hit by them
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And Edison survived a 73% Barrier Laser too, correct?
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100%
DaMonkeMan
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When the hell did I say Hakiless Zoro. I was talking about the one that fought King, and that Zoro almost always used Haki in his attacks.
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I thought we were comparing their fights against the Seraphim?
DaMonkeMan
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I don't see why it matters. They've all got Lunarian durability.
DaMonkeMan
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I thought it was an incon?
Mndks
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True
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Yeah, well I'm under the belief that Zoro and Sanji are a lot stronger on Egghead than they were during Onigashima, so to me Sanji scaling above that version of Zoro isn't much of an issue in the same way that Skypiea Sanji being above Alabasta Zoro isn't.
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Nah, incon was the right answer.
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I've come to realize after making my Egghead feat compilation that those Vegapunks are pretty strong. For some reason, Lucci felt the need to use Hybrid Rokugan against Atlas.
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Yeah they're not weak like some people think
DaMonkeMan
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They get wasted and spend all night watching romcoms and making prank calls in Sasuke's room.
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Feats.
DaMonkeMan
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