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One Piece Discussion Thread Fifteen 3D2Y

The Calaca said:
Got to say, when a bull rushes, stopping it mid-charge requires the Lifting Strength to hold the animal in place and the durability in whatever you may use to not break the guard once the bull comes in contact with you. If you try to stop it with your hands but your durability is lower then you're going to break your hands.
Doffy stopped Jozu while he was charging towards Crocodile, halted him in place, effectively immobilizing him.

Catching Jozu off-guard isn't a point when the argument relies on the Durability of Doffy's strings and not his AP.
Click to expand...
Correct, and Jozu's weight moving forward at X speed isn't terribly impressive. He was mid-wind-up on his punch, with his arm cocked back and not moving forward, so Jozu's AP does NOT factor into the halted momentum whatsoever.

Unfortunately for your analogy, and more to my point, the real world has different physics than One Piece blatantly does. Stopping a bull mid-charge? Cool, you halted the full kinetic energy the animal is capable of outputting cuz physics states you halted [X] Mass moving at [Y] Velocity, fully countering the forward vector of motion.

If someone tackles Luffy mid-charge, they're not countering his full AP he outputs from a punch; the real world operates on Mass times Velocity, One Piece does not.

If we presume that Jozu running forward has all the Velocity necessary to justify country-busting, we'd get obscene numbers, and applying it to fiction in general is something we just simply do not do on this wiki. We accept that people moving slow can just suddenly punch hard. Jozu does that. Doffy stopped him mid-charge, and did not halt a forward-moving-fist.

It does not scale. Even if it did, it's a one-off feat that literally is never replicated ever again by Doflamingo.
 
>We do not apply physics in the wiki

You are so wrong that it's funny.

We do not get speed from AP but we do get AP from speed using KE. You're implying that we can't assume KE because the speed would be absurd, but holy strawman, KE totally applies to the case. As Cin pointed, the opposition relies on "maybe".

Maybe Jozu wasn't going at full strength against someone who was trying to kill his captain.

You know, when the discussion evolves to the "you can't apply physics to fiction" is when I tell people to go to any other site. We do it here, deal wth it.
 
Alright, so if we get AP from speed using KE: what was his forward speed?

Also, you'll note that nowhere did I dismiss physics in fiction in general, specifically in the context of this question.

Holy ACTUAL Strawman

EDIT:

More to my point and not the frivolous strawman - stuff like this is possible in One Piece , regardless of the absurd difference in masses ramming into one another; if standard physics applies, the smaller mass would have been bowled over. People exerting effort simply bypass the need for velocity to be strong in fiction in general, it's a thing, deal with it. Maybe a feat-based illustration of my point gets it across, hopefully.
 
>and applying it to fiction in general is something we just simply do not do on this wiki

Yeah, you clearly didn't say that.

I'm prettt sure that asking for the speed Jozu was at is also a fallacy, but I don't know which is it.

Anyway, you won't get anywhere with that logic. You are assuming that Jozu wasn't going all out against someone trying to murder his captain with nothing but "huh, do you know at what speed he was going at" like is some kind argument, let alone an irrefutable one.
 
I'm assuming Doflamingo did not halt a punch from Jozu, yes, because that's what factually occurred, I'm glad we are on the same page.

He halted a guy running. Give me his AP while running and you have a point. That's how the wiki operates.

Notice how you didn't even engage any of my other debunks of Cin's 'facts' and are focusing solely on one, however? The one I already pointed out is an outlier if it's the only one to be accepted?

You're patently agreeing with me by this point and still trying to argue it in Cin's favor
 
Good thing Cin can defend his point by himself.

Not like I have the time to reply to the same argument debunked before. You may not, but I have things to do, and what I said was my two cents at the moment.

Using Red Herrings as an attempt to disprove that Jozu has Low 6-B AP scaling from, oh my, TACKLING Kuzan with his shoulder. But suddenly we need to provide X speed value to prove what the manga showed us.

And the funny thing is that he did that by tackling Kuzan, the same thing he was doing to Crocodile before Doffy came up.

Claim it's an outlier all that you want, but outside of it you have no legit evidence that Doffy is 1000x below Jozu AND Kuzan.
 
Mate you have a weird definition of tackle: https://i.imgur.com/Hunoagk.jpg

Thats not fitting the definition of any tackle ive ever seen.

If you have better tbings to do, go do them and dont try to claim some moral highground by being dismissive and then proceeding to keep arguing the damn point. Dont be a hypocrite
 
It's quite simple, I don't have the time nor the mood to look over the same debunked points to satisfy your need for discussing the same damn thing.

Oh yeah, rushing towards something to tag it with the elbow is a punch as you have been claiming before. Nothing KE invoved at all.

I'm going to be as hypocrite as I want to. Try to stop me.
 
The Calaca said:
It's quite simple, I don't have the time nor the mood to look over the same debunked points to satisfy your need for discussing the same damn thing.

Oh yeah, rushing towards something to tag it with the elbow is a punch as you have been claiming before. Nothing KE invoved at all.

I'm going to be as hypocrite as I want to. Try to stop me.
Click to expand...
Immaturity aside, nothing I factually point out has been remotely debunked. Making a baseless assertion in lieu of argument is hardly the quality of discussion Id expect of a mod.

Until such factual, scan-backed claims of mine are actually engaged, tbe points are valid
 
Yeah, sure. Be happy with your thoughts. Just ignore that in both instances the attack is performed the same.


Getting back to relevant topics, the animation for this episode was dope. I have a few problems with the adaptation, starting with Kaido's mood at the moment of the one-shot. They made it look not casual at all, which was the point of the scene.

The rest of it was really good, but they also deleted the 'sigh' scene, killing one of the most important parts of the fight: Kaido's disappointment on Luffy.

I'd have made Luffy rages at him with Kaido remaining immobile for the whole barrage, as he was testing Luffy's power since that was his intention in the manga. Attacking Luffy, whether with a headbutt in the previous chapter or with three fireballs now kinda deleted that intention.

Kinda ironic that Toei used to inflate the antagonists before, making Caesar, Hody and Doffy clash with Luffy during the final moments. Now they inflated Luffy making him tank the headbutt.

The Thunder Bagua was awesome regardless. I fail to see where Luffy struggled with Kaido as some people have said. But I'd have like to see Luffy spinning in the air and fall in the floor rather than crashing into the mountain.

Also, Kaio-Ken FTW.
 
Cal although the anime has been extreme with its special effects (Kaio-ken Luffy) would the animes portrayal with Purple Lightning for Thunder Bagua be enough justification for Electricity manipulation?
 
I'm reluctant on that unless Kaido uses lightning and gives lightning damage to someone. Because that could very well be just an Effect used to impact the viewer.

Otherwise, we should add Eectricity Manipulation to Haoshoku users because when they clash black-red lightnings appears.
 
Sorry but it isn't a little hypocrite to say that Kaido's case was only visual effects, even when the attack is called "Thunderclap Eight Trigrams" and they guy already had Weather Manipulation similar to chinese dragons (meaning having the ability of control lightnings isn't a big of a stretch), and yet say the opposite to Haoshoku users, when the black-red lightnings were most likely Haki (just like in the case of Luffy vs Doflamingo, Luffy vs Katakuri and Luffy vs Chinjao)?

I'm not really trying to argue about Kaido having that power, i only want to understand why you think Haoshoku user do have enough evidence to had such power when they have must as much as proof as Kaido.
 
I still think a "possibly lightning manipulation" is in order. Not 100% sure he has it but then isn't that what "Possibly" is for?

Also I agree with the consensus that they over-stretched the fight somewhat but I was expecting that for the anime. Kaido still came off as a true monster while pandering to those who enjoy lightshows.
 
Didn't WB break out of his ice with gura gura no mi vibration powers ?

Also I don't remember if we were shown Doffy breaking out of the ice, could it have maybe melted ?
 
@Stefano eh... I didn't say that Haoshoku users should get that. What I meant is that if we go by what seems to be visual effects, we should add it to HH users.

I was literally saying the opposite.
 
I've argued this topic SEVERAL times. Staff agreed... SEVERAL TIMES to put a stop to it. It does seem entirely necessary to make a rule on this simply because every couple months or so @DAMAGE especially feels the need to bring it up again despite being disproved every last time, yet persisting with the same exact arguments that have 0 merit.

I simply refuse to discuss it further.
 
Doffy could just have resistance to Ice manipulation, the homie was just chilling in the cold with his bare chest out in the open.
 
At the end of the day I think many will agree with Kuzan being above Doffy by a decent amount, so honestly why would Doffy be able to overpower a durability negating attack when he was blitzed... Would imply Doffy > Kuzan so really resistance to the ice manipulation fits better.
 
@Cin; I bring it up because I believe that the profiles are currently wrong. Excuse me for just trying to do the right thing.

But fair enough, I'll stop discussing it on this thread. Proper revisions will address it in the future.
 
As we see in the viz translation, the battle with the Roger and Whitebeard pirates wasn´t exaclty a all out battle,also Roger didn´t say that Whitebeard should go all out, but he should give him all treasurs from the island.

Can someone make a calc for Whitebeard raising voice Gura power who manipulate the area around the island?
 
The Calaca said:
Calling a tackle a punch makes sense to you?
Click to expand...
Yes that one doesn't make a sense but your respond with the sarcasm are make you a bit immature, you are discussion mod man, you should do better than this
 
I'm not going to get any further about this here to not derail the thread.

So I leave this to not be off-topic.

D6bc0c89c28d193663cbd84e73e2e158
 
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