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One Piece: Crocodile CRT

Eminiteable

Eminiteable

He/Him
7,401
6,631
So for the longest time Crocodile has had this justification on his profile which has been used as a way of preventing him from scaling to his other feats in the paramount war:
At least Mountain level (Displayed as being comparable to Gear 2nd Luffy during the war)
Click to expand...

However, this wasn't ever really displayed? When he got hit by Gear 2nd Luffy he wasn't damaged or really effected at all and that's as far as the comparability goes during the actual war (there was a "combined attack" between Croc, Luffy and Jinbe in impel down, but considering we aren't limiting Jinbe's feats due to this combo I don't think we should limit Crocodile).

Meanwhile Crocodile has one solid AP feat of matching Doflamingo's kicks and reacting to and taking Jozu's named attack. Considering these two feats I suggest we change Marineford Crocodile's scaling to this:
Attack Potency: Island level (Matched Doflamingo's kick and could contend with him off panel for extended periods)

Speed: At least Relativistic+ (Matched Doflamingo) with FTL reactions (Reacted to Jozu's Briliant Punk attack)

Durability: Continent level (Although inferior, he took an attack from Jozu)
Click to expand...
 
Kachon123 said:
We should give him 6-C possible 6-A AP for clashing with Mihawk
Click to expand...
Doesn't look like he clashed in the manga, we see Yoru held stationary and held in a different position than it was when it was attacking while Crocodile's attack is showing motion lines and is the origin of the impact strike; to me I interpret this as Crocodile attacking, Mihawk saw it coming and blocking the strike.

I also wouldn't scale him regardless as it doesn't seem like Mihawk's using his full power considering Daz Bones blocked his strike.
 
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Eminiteable said:
Doesn't look like he clashed in the manga, we see Yoru in a stationary and held in a different position than it was when it was attacking with Crocodile's attack showing motion lines and being the origin of the impact strike; to me I interpret this as Crocodile attacking, Mihawk saw it coming and blocking the strike.

I also wouldn't scale him regardless as it doesn't seem like Mihawk's using his full power considering Daz Bones blocked his strike.
Click to expand...
Fair enough.
 
GodlyCharmander said:
Ain't Doflamingo ******* around as much, if not more than Mihawk? I don't think scaling his AP to Doffy works. Rest is okay though.
Click to expand...
Mihawk's issue is that we have actual evidence that he's holding back so gauging people's feats to him is hard to determine while with Doflamingo at least we don't have any evidence that he's willingly holding back his strength, and when they clashed (admittedly it's hard to see) but it doesn't seem like he's smiling anymore.
 
Somehow, Crocodile managed to increase his AP this much while being stuck in prison. Doesn't really make much sense, but then again, there are several feats in the Paramount War arc that don't make much sense either, like Luffy being able to withstand attacks from Admirals. So I guess I agree with the changes.
 
CiscoTheSoto said:
Somehow, Crocodile managed to increase his AP this much while being stuck in prison. Doesn't really make much sense, but then again, there are several feats in the Paramount War arc that don't make much sense either, like Luffy being able to withstand attacks from Admirals. So I guess I agree with the changes.
Click to expand...
How about Luffy hurting freaking Blackbeard?
 
Also iffy on durability but I guess until we get an anti feat for Crocodile in the future it can stay
 
Eseseso said:
How about Luffy hurting freaking Blackbeard?
Click to expand...
I also think this is a massive outlier. While yes, Blackbeard's Devil Fruit power increases the force of attacks that strike him, it would have to be a MASSIVE increase in force for Luffy to actually hurt him. Otherwise, practically any low-level pirate would be able to hurt him with physical strikes if its suction power is that large, and his Devil Fruit power might not be worth the trouble.
 
The Jozu feat is his only durability feat in that key and in fact the only time he got hurt during marineford. We don't scale him to Mihawk not because it's a large jump in power but because Mihawk himself is shown to exert inconsistent levels of strength in that arc alongside and that his feat isn't shown to be a clash in the manga.
 
Eminiteable said:
The Jozu feat is his only durability feat in that key and in fact the only time he got hurt during marineford. We don't scale him to Mihawk not because it's a large jump in power but because Mihawk himself is shown to exert inconsistent levels of strength in that arc alongside and that his feat isn't shown to be a clash in the manga.
Click to expand...
Something, something Anime is secondary canon to clarify ambiguous things.

The clash likely happened, but you still have the holding back argument.
 
So Crocodile who was confined to a cell and chained with seastone got hundreds of times stronger than Luffy who was actively training and fighting strong opponents? How does that make any sense?

We know Marineford is pretty inconsistent when it comes to scaling, why isn't this?
 
GodlyCharmander said:
Something, something Anime is secondary canon to clarify ambiguous things.

The clash likely happened, but you still have the holding back argument.
Click to expand...
The statement that we used was made in Zou arc and was accepted and in the CRT that accepted the anime as secondary canon it was made clear that it would only account for Zou and onwards (If I'm remembering right), and previously in the pre-timeskip Oda's actual statements about the anime and manga is to treat them as two separate things.

This isn't feat isn't ambiguous and the anime's depiction of the scene is different than the what happened in the manga.
Purgy said:
So Crocodile who was confined to a cell and chained with seastone got hundreds of times stronger than Luffy who was actively training and fighting strong opponents? How does that make any sense?

We know Marineford is pretty inconsistent when it comes to scaling, why isn't this?
Click to expand...
This has nothing to do with scaling? This is just a criticism of the narrative and has no barring on the scaling in this CRT. Even if you just scaled him to Marineford Luffy he'd still be doing exactly what you're criticizing as did many others in Impel Down.
 
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Eminiteable said:
This has nothing to do with scaling? This is just a criticism of the narrative and has no barring on the scaling in this CRT. Even if you just scaled him to Marineford Luffy he'd still be doing exactly what you're criticizing as did many others in Impel Down.
Click to expand...
If the scaling makes zero sense narratively then it's not good scaling.

Furthermore, what reason is there to believe Doflamingo is even trying? We clearly see earlier that he doesn't want to kill Crocodile because he wants him to join his crew and he even goes so far as to stop Jozu from attacking him as well as purposefully not using haki to cut off Crocodile's head.

One hands in pocket clash from Doflamingo who clearly has no interest in killing Crocodile isn't reason to jump Crocodile from 7-C to 6-C especially when combined with the narrative inconsistencies.

At most I think this warrants a possibly, an outright rating is too much imo.
 
Didn't Oda admitted he made Crocodile too weak and was defeated too quickly? Making his fight with Luffy an outlier? Or was that a lie?
 
Purgy said:
If the scaling makes zero sense narratively then it's not good scaling.
Click to expand...
No, you just disagree with the way he got stronger. Both his feats and his portrayal in the narrative of those arcs is that he's very powerful even compared to the current shichibukai there (who are all hundreds of time stronger than Alabasta Crocodile)
Purgy said:
Furthermore, what reason is there to believe Doflamingo is even trying? We clearly see earlier that he doesn't want to kill Crocodile because he wants him to join his crew and he even goes so far as to stop Jozu from attacking him as well as purposefully not using haki to cut off Crocodile's head.
Click to expand...
And Crocodile goes on to reject him and then fights for the enemy side which Doflamingo brings up right before clashing with him. If you have any actual evidence that Doflamingo is holding back then provide it.
 
Eminiteable said:
No, you just disagree with the way he got stronger. Both his feats and his portrayal in the narrative of those arcs is that he's very powerful even compared to the current shichibukai there (who are all hundreds of time stronger than Alabasta Crocodile)

And Crocodile goes on to reject him and then fights for the enemy side which Doflamingo brings up right before clashing with him. If you have any actual evidence that Doflamingo is holding back then provide it.
Click to expand...
I disagree with him getting hundreds of times stronger than Luffy while imprisoned and chained with seastone yes, you may as well give Crocodile passive accelerated development as well for this

I already did, Doflamingo didn't use haki to cut off Crocodile's head immediately before their clash, go ahead and explain why he would do that other than because he has no interest in killing him
729809aae687976a3dec257504d112b2.png
As for your argument that Doflamingo became serious because Crocodile declined his offer, that's clearly wrong because Crocodile already declined it five chapters earlier.
8a12b21a62699ea8372675190561d864.jpg
  • Saved him from Jozu
  • Wants him to join his crew
  • Had the opportunity to kill Crocodile and didn't do it
  • Doflamingo's got his hands in his pockets while clashing with Crocodile
All of these prove that Doflamingo isn't hostile to Crocodile and has no intent in killing him, so Crocodile shouldn't outright scale to him from one clash.
 
To be clear, I'm fine with a possibly or even likely, just not outright scaling him to Doflamingo.
 
Purgy said:
I disagree with him getting hundreds of times stronger than Luffy while imprisoned and chained with seastone yes, you may as well give Crocodile passive accelerated development as well for this
Click to expand...
Sure we can do that, we'll give it to Bon Clay, Mr. 3 and Buggy as well since they all got stronger despite not going through the same stuff Luffy did. Although it is mentioned in the story that the Strawhats got stronger after they visited.

So if you want to add that then go ahead.
Purgy said:
I already did, Doflamingo didn't use haki to cut off Crocodile's head immediately before their clash, go ahead and explain why he would do that other than because he has no interest in killing him
Click to expand...
Doflamingo has an AP rating with Haki which is High 6-C and we're not scaling him there. I never claimed he had interest in killing him, I said you need provide evidence that he's holding back his strength there with a regular kick.
Purgy said:
As for your argument that Doflamingo became serious because Crocodile declined his offer, that's clearly wrong because Crocodile already declined it five chapters earlier.
Click to expand...
No, I claimed that he got serious after Crocodile actively was fighting against the marines during the war, which Doflamingo said directly was Crocodile ditching the warlords to work under Whitebeard despite denying his invitation to work together.
Purgy said:
Doflamingo's got his hands in his pockets while clashing with Crocodile
Click to expand...
Why does putting your hands in your pocket indicate you don't have killing intent or are holding back? Akainu and Kizaru did the exact same thing to Whitebeard.
Purgy said:
All of these prove that Doflamingo isn't hostile to Crocodile and has no intent in killing him, so Crocodile shouldn't outright scale to him from one clash.
Click to expand...
Some of these prove he doesn't have killing intent towards him, what this doesn't prove like I asked is evidence that Doflamingo is holding back strength in his kick.
 
Eseseso said:
Well since he isn't actually comparable to G2nd, how should we scale him?
Click to expand...
Damage3245 said:
We could change him back to Unknown until Crocodile shows up in the main storyline.
Click to expand...
We're going to scale him to his actual feats. The issue with Luffy doesn't apply here. Luffy after Marineford and after a two year time-skip where he got stronger showed that the level of his Gears clearly wasn't on the level of Kizaru, Garp, Blackbeard, Sengoku or Mihawk considering nearly ever mid-tier in the post-timeskip scales above or to Luffy with gears.

Crocodile doesn't have that issue, he's not (yet) shown to be weaker than he was portrayed in the war. His feats during the war weren't shown to be inconsistent, the only thing people are using to cite that there is an inconsistency is that he was 7-C in an arc that happened several months ago.
 
Purgy said:
  • Saved him from Jozu
  • Wants him to join his crew
  • Had the opportunity to kill Crocodile and didn't do it
  • Doflamingo's got his hands in his pockets while clashing with Crocodile
All of these prove that Doflamingo isn't hostile to Crocodile and has no intent in killing him, so Crocodile shouldn't outright scale to him from one clash
Click to expand...
He makes a good point actually
Imo doffy wasn't really taking the war seriously and was only there for the fun of it
Iirc he was ordered to dispose of Moriah and he still didn't kill him. I'm kinda ok with the speed and durability scaling but I don't think Croc should scale directly to doffy who wasn't taking things seriously 😑
 
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