OMORI Upgrades/Downgrades

[Armorchompy]

Alright, let's keep this short and simple, here's some minor (depends on your interpretation I suppose) revisions to OMORI's stats (verse, not character)

Attack Potency​

8-C​

Alright, so I changed my mind and think the Vfrag end of the main Omori calc is good to use. Oops. Anyway, this adds a "+" to the profiles, maybe they could upscale into High 8-C with the Hikikomori route, I'm neutral towards that and it'd require an extra key probably.

Here's some extra supporting feats, some of them can be scaled to fodder too.

9-C​

However, I think the "Possibly 9-C" stats on the real world characters should be removed. They're based off surviving blows from Aubrey's baseball bat, but the implication there is that Aubrey's holding back her attacks. Evidence for that is that wounds in the real world sections are treated realistically. You can see Sunny and Basil wounding each other in their fight, and when Sunny attacks Aubrey with his knife she's hurt and stops the fight.

But a bat with nails would realistically cause even more damage than that, you'd have to be superhumanly tough to survive it without wounds, which clearly isn't the case here as a steak knife works perfectly well, even when used by Sunny who's likely physically weaker than Aubrey since he's a hikikomori. There's also the fact that all the real world fights are between kids your age, I think it's unrealistic to say all of these teens are pro athlete tier. And you can canonically lose to them, by the way, story goes on anyway after some dialogue changes.

Considering all of that, I think just saying that Aubrey didn't want to hurt her old friends makes a lot more sense.

The 9-C stats should just be replaced with 10-B. Aubrey can be "higher with Baseball Bat" or something, since realistically that'd pack one hell of a punch if she used it seriously.

Likely Low 2-C, possibly 2-C with Reality Warping​

Finally, I'm unsure about Omori's RW stat. It's true that there Daddy says there are multiple universes, but my issue is created by by Branch Coral's statements.

"A long time passed since you have ventured this far.
Deeper layers of his world open up as the DREAMER grows more desperate.
Even imagination is limited."

I think this is implying that the size of these dream worlds is limited, and it makes sense, since it's referring to the appearance of Deeper Well. I don't care much about this statistic in particular but I guess it should be replaced with 4-A since there's some starry skies in the ladder sections. Speaking of which...

Speed​

Our current FTL rating comes from Pluto being able to jump between planets in a small amount of time. Not only is this not a FTL feat, but it's referring to the fast travel system that lets you go from Otherworld to Earth and back.

However, Otherworld is clearly shown in the world map to be much smaller than a real planet, and much closer to Earth too. So, it would take much less speed to cross such a distance. You could argue that's just flawed map scaling but there isn't anything that indicates that Otherworld isn't that small.

(It's also possibly just travel speed, but that's not important rn)

Unfortunately there aren't any speed feats that I'm aware of higher than Transonic for being able to fight the Shark Plane enemy, who moves at mach speed as stated by Foe Facts! So, Transonic it is.

Lifting Strength​

Again, here's a calc. Nice Class 25 feat, scales to even fodder, although every time I look at that scene I feel like I'm missing the joke. Oh well.

 

[DaReaperMan]

I AGREE WITH EVERYTHING!!!​

 

[Armorchompy]

bump

 

[The_Smashor]

Likely Low 2-C, possibly 2-C with Reality Warping​

Finally, I'm unsure about Omori's RW stat. It's true that there Daddy says there are multiple universes, but my issue is created by by Branch Coral's statements.

"A long time passed since you have ventured this far.
Deeper layers of his world open up as the DREAMER grows more desperate.
Even imagination is limited."

"Limited" dosn't necessarily mean not universal/multiversal.

"Open up" implies that they're still there, just not accessible. Captain Spaceboy, who travels through space, considers Headspace to be a universe, as well as Omori himself (Who would probably be more knowledgeable than anyone). Sunny's imagination having limits just means Headspace isn't 2-A, which we didn't consider it to be anyways.

 

[Cyberblader90]

There was a recent calc made off site for AP in headspace that I would like checked later. Need to get permission first to post it

 

[deonment]

"Limited" dosn't necessarily mean not universal/multiversal.

"Open up" implies that they're still there, just not accessible. Captain Spaceboy, who travels through space, considers Headspace to be a universe, as well as Omori himself (Who would probably be more knowledgeable than anyone). Sunny's imagination having limits just means Headspace isn't 2-A, which we didn't consider it to be anyways.

^ shares my thoughts on the matter even though it being limited in size should stop it from being 4D since it would still be a space-time but eh

 

[Armorchompy]

"Limited" dosn't necessarily mean not universal/multiversal.

"Open up" implies that they're still there, just not accessible. Captain Spaceboy, who travels through space, considers Headspace to be a universe, as well as Omori himself (Who would probably be more knowledgeable than anyone). Sunny's imagination having limits just means Headspace isn't 2-A, which we didn't consider it to be anyways.

"Universe" can be used to indicate smaller universes, Omori isn't a vsbw debater, he'd have no reason not to call a 4-A world a "universe".

Do you have evidence that Deeper Well was not accessible rather than just not existent? Considering Branch Coral mentions imagination being limited in the same sentence as that, those statements are likely tied, and within context "Omori can't make infinite dream worlds" doesn't have anything to do with what Coral was talking about.

Do you agree with the rest?

 

[Armorchompy]

There was a recent calc made off site for AP in headspace that I would like checked later. Need to get permission first to post it

Feel free to show us, sure.

 

[The_Smashor]

"Universe" can be used to indicate smaller universes, Omori isn't a vsbw debater, he'd have no reason not to call a 4-A world a "universe".

Do you have evidence that Deeper Well was not accessible rather than just not existent? Considering Branch Coral mentions imagination being limited in the same sentence as that, those statements are likely tied, and within context "Omori can't make infinite dream worlds" doesn't have anything to do with what Coral was talking about.

Do you agree with the rest?

Maybe, but Captain Spaceboy travels through space and also considers the world to be a universe.

"Opening up" implies just that. It opens. If you open a door, the inside of the house dosn't suddenly come into existence. And the worlds of Headspace just being un-created dosn't make sense.

Yes.

 

[Armorchompy]

Maybe, but Captain Spaceboy travels through space and also considers the world to be a universe.

I don't know how reliable he is, I mean he considers the solar system's planets to be ALL of them IIRC so he probably hasn't explored that much of it.

"Opening up" implies just that. It opens. If you open a door, the inside of the house dosn't suddenly come into existence.

Within the context of a dream world "opening up" could literally just mean appearing though. And the context of "imagination is limited" is regarding the deeper layers that are opening up, which implies he can't keep imagining those into reality at all times.

Yes.

Good to hear that.

 

[deonment]

Within the context of a dream world "opening up" could literally just mean appearing though. And the context of "imagination is limited" is regarding the deeper layers that are opening up, which implies he can't keep imagining those into reality at all times.

Or it could be referring to the fact that the reality itself is not infinite in size, which doesn't disprove it being universal in size

 

[Armorchompy]

Or it could be referring to the fact that the reality itself is not infinite in size, which doesn't disprove it being universal in size

When it comes right after Deeper Well being unavailable for one reason or the other, despite it being on the very same planet as Omori, one would expect the limits to be a bit more relevant.

Either way, fair enough, it's not too important a statistic, so I'll probably just drop it.

 

[The_Smashor]

I don't know how reliable he is, I mean he considers the solar system's planets to be ALL of them IIRC so he probably hasn't explored that much of it.

Not really. He says he controls all the planets in the solar system. He then says, separately, that all the power in the universe is at his command. I should also note that "Planets" means something completely different in Omori, since they're generally much smaller.

Within the context of a dream world "opening up" could literally just mean appearing though. And the context of "imagination is limited" is regarding the deeper layers that are opening up, which implies he can't keep imagining those into reality at all times.

You don't have any evidence to prove that first sentence. It could just as easily mean that it exists and is just closed off. And "Imagination is limited" is much too vague to really mean much of anything.

Either way, fair enough, it's not too important a statistic, so I'll probably just drop it.

you say this right before I post my argument to your points

 

[Armorchompy]

you say this right before I post my argument to your points

oh come on man i like having the last word even when it doesn't matter at all couldn't you just delete that post

 

[deonment]

oh come on man i like having the last word even when it doesn't matter at all couldn't you just delete that post

suffer

 

[Armorchompy]

anyway who applies this

 

[Cyberblader90]

bump

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Alright, so I changed my mind and think the Vfrag end of the main Omori calc is good to use.

Doesn't look like Vfrag to me, the pieces are too big

 

[Armorchompy]

Maybe you're right actually. I'll rewatch the animation when back home

 

[Armorchompy]

Yeah no you're probably right. Sorry folks!

 

[Cyberblader90]

so are we sticking with frag?

 

[Armorchompy]

yep

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

With normal frag the feat is much more consistent. So yeah, nothing changes

 

[Rikimarox2]

Everything looks good here. I agree (with the exception of the tier 2 and VFrag shit, ofc)

 

[Armorchompy]

would anyone be opposed to me applying these?

 

[The_Smashor]

Just the 9-C change, the speed, and the Lifting Strength, correct?

 

[Armorchompy]

yeah, maybe adding the supporting feats too

 

[The_Smashor]

yeah, maybe adding the supporting feats too

Sounds good.

 

[Armorchompy]

I made the edits, feel free to tweak them if the wording sounds awkward or something like that. Also I noticed the "Average" stamina ratings, I'm sure those could be made higher for the Headspace versions IMO

 

[Agnaa]

Disagree with parts of that edit. The reasonings for the supporting calcs are bad, "It's not canon, but it's made by the same person, so they probably intended it to be the same size" and "The entire joke of the scene is that they were just ******* around and the feat didn't actually happen, but it's a dream world, so it's totally still legit" are not sufficient.

And there's no reason for scaling LS to the Sprout Moles. Killing someone does not make you scale to their Lifting Strength.

I agree with most of the rest of it, and similarly don't care much about the reality warping rating.

 

[Agnaa]

Bump? :L

 

[Antvasima]

Disagree with parts of that edit. The reasonings for the supporting calcs are bad, "It's not canon, but it's made by the same person, so they probably intended it to be the same size" and "The entire joke of the scene is that they were just ******* around and the feat didn't actually happen, but it's a dream world, so it's totally still legit" are not sufficient.

And there's no reason for scaling LS to the Sprout Moles. Killing someone does not make you scale to their Lifting Strength.

I agree with most of the rest of it, and similarly don't care much about the reality warping rating.

@Armorchompy

 

[Armorchompy]

I'm not the verse's main supporter, i just made a few calcs, but I think Agnaa is being too nitpicky

The same person did indeed draw the planes, why would they not be the same size? Do you think they just decided to change this random detail for no reason? Like this is the same as a character that's 230 cm tall appearing in a crossover game and us no longer being able to assume he's 2.3 meters tall anymore- it's the same ******' character of course we should! Obviously we don't scale actual abilities across different canons but size doesn't follow the same rules. Plus, that's like, the size of a small plane which is exactly what the Shark Plane is so it's not like it's such a huge logical leap that we need to be this nitpicky about

I didn't really think that was the joke for the Pluto thing, personally, that's hella subjective.

If a character is generally shown to be strong there's no reason to assume they're not comparable to the absolute weakest enemies in the setting in LS unless the verse explicitly has shoddy treatment of LS scaling the way I see it, and OMORI doesn't. It would make absolutely no sense for these fodder characters who are usually shown to be really pathetic physically to be somehow way stronger than anything else in the setting, this is a case of unreasonable levels of scrutiny.

 

[Agnaa]

The game itself would have Shark Plane pixel-scaled to be way lower. This is more like using a crossover where they have a wildly different size from what's shown in the canon material to get the size in the canon material. EDIT: I will say that if we didn't see Shark Plane in the game in a way that could be scaled, I'd be fine with it. Non-canon stuff like that should only be used when we can't get any estimation from the canon material itself, imo.

Fair enough ig, but I say that because how it cuts to everything being fine is, Pluto is ginormous and has destroyed most of the building, he starts flexing, glowing, and screaming. And then Mr. Jawsum says "Break it up break it up", Pluto is shown at an ordinary size, and everything's intact. Either some character used some reality warping/healing to bring them all back (and made Pluto small or he instantly de-transformed himself), or those visuals just weren't real, and I think it's safer to assume the latter.

Welp, not much to say to that since I think it's a reasonable level of scrutiny. I don't think all the characters have to be normal human level or something, but put them at Unknown since they lack feats and scaling.

 

[Armorchompy]

Gonna tag @The_Smashor so he sees this

The game itself would have Shark Plane pixel-scaled to be way lower. This is more like using a crossover where they have a wildly different size from what's shown in the canon material to get the size in the canon material.

Yeah but OMORI's graphics are absolutely not to scale here lol, it's a very limited artstyle that echoes old games, it absolutely should not be interpreted as a 100% faithful showing of size. I mean is every single tree in the huge-ass forest of the first area only five meters tall? Are all cars taller than the protagonists?

EDIT: I will say that if we didn't see Shark Plane in the game in a way that could be scaled, I'd be fine with it. Non-canon stuff like that should only be used when we can't get any estimation from the canon material itself, imo.

Which is the case here, IMO, if it wasn't I'd agree

Fair enough ig, but I say that because how it cuts to everything being fine is, Pluto is ginormous and has destroyed most of the building, he starts flexing, glowing, and screaming. And then Mr. Jawsum says "Break it up break it up", Pluto is shown at an ordinary size, and everything's intact. Either some character used some reality warping/healing to bring them all back (and made Pluto small or he instantly de-transformed himself), or those visuals just weren't real, and I think it's safer to assume the latter.

I mean considering we see giant Pluto is a thing that exists in the Hikikomori route "Pluto de-transformed himself somehow" is not really an argument at all when that is indeed something he can do. The way I saw it, the joke was "they caused a fuckton of destruction but it somehow all goes away when they're asked to stop", not "they thought they were causing this much destruction but they weren't", it's obviously subjective but I don't think assuming he actually did destroy that much ground is wrong.

Welp, not much to say to that since I think it's a reasonable level of scrutiny. I don't think all the characters have to be normal human level or something, but put them at Unknown since they lack feats and scaling.

Isn't Aubrey said to be really strong anyway? And Kel is taught a flexing technique by Pluto- I hope you're not insinuating Pluto is weaker than a Molesprout in LS? I don't think this level of scrutiny is right at all, when someone is established to be stronger in AP through sheer strength and there are no reason to assume the opposite, LS should scale.

This actually makes me think I could calculate Pluto's jump to space for LS, actually. Dunno if that would scale however.

 

[Guileal]

shouldn't the back be planet level? Pluto was literally throwing planets against omori and his friends in the boss fight



7:16

 

[Armorchompy]

Nah, you see Earth in OMORI and it's like, three meters tall at best

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

Nah, you see Earth in OMORI and it's like, three meters tall at best

Isn't that because OMORI's graphics are not to scale? During battle she is tremendously bigger than Pluto (Expanded). Omori also says that people live on the Earth, so the larger size is more valid.

 

[Guileal]

Pluto's lifting strength should be YN as well, and the resistance of omori and friends should be planet for supporting the planet being thrown against them

 

[Armorchompy]

Isn't that because OMORI's graphics are not to scale? During battle she is tremendously bigger than Pluto (Expanded). Omori also says that people live on the Earth, so the larger size is more valid.

There is a difference between "looks 5 meters but is actually 20 meters" and "looks 5 meters but is actually 12742000 meters" dude cmon

I don't see any evidence of the Earth being that much bigger than Pluto, it's behind him, that's all.

You really shouldn't take that shit seriously when it's clearly meant to be comedic. Are you telling me OMORI and the gang commit planetary genocide by defeating it? Clearly it's just Omori/Sunny repeating something he learned in middle school even though it clearly doesn't apply to his dreams.

Look, this wasn't the point of the thread, if you wanna make OMORI 5-A, make a different thread and don't forget to notify me about it.