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Oh so totally worth it.

@TheHadou

Ahh makes sense, but I can't help but find it questionable since I'm staring at the profile and triforce pages. Though you do realize Yukari has precognition too?

@Cal

Okay, well... on the chance that Link does pull it off.... Limited Concept Manip < Concept Manip and Yukari has her own share of reality manip with BMing the enemy. And bming the enemy too.

@Saikou

If Yukari didn't have that on the latest game I would've been inclined to vote tie or Link but ye.
 
Speaking of which, I thought Yukari could just affect boundaries of things on a conceptual level, as opposed to being able to outright erase things conceptually. And I did already say that spatial manipulation is something she'd lilely use at the beginning, though (and this is a sincere question) what was your response to it bypassing intangibility? I forgot. Plus, autores
 
She's always been able to though I think. Also it's related to the recent buffs regarding gods and goddesses.

Saikou said above that intangibility and even the higher level ability non corpo... corp.... whatever that thing is can still get screwed over by spatial manip.

Repeatedly killing in that case or dump to 2 Dimension and... wait can't Yukari disarm Link of his arsenal? Like literally pull them away? Legit wondering where Link keeps them all.
 
No Cal, what's your explanation for intangibility bypassing Spatial Manip? There is literally no reason for it to make Link immune to Spatial Manip unless it's some Escape from Reality stuff.
 
That leaves a lot of time for Yukari to prepare a counterattack.

No. Precognition means he knows these things before hand, and then will only need to perform the attack.

I mean it's not like she has to spam danmaku, sending trains (Even if it's for memes), or other stuff. Spatial manip should be enough then in that case as a minimum. Considering she won't hesitate to use it against others.

As Cal said, would this work on someone with Intangibility? And will she perform this faster than it takes Link to perform his attacks?

@Cal How coincidental that Yukari has actually shown to use Spatial Manip as her move of choice even when lightyears from being serious. She wouldn't suddenly start trying random boundary effects on Link for shit and giggles when she can just cut him up or erase him.

SBA goes by the mindset that the character is in-character (retaining the flaw of starting battles not serious if it is a recurring flaw), and willing to kill. Not sure how much this is relevant, just pointing this out.

And fighting a woman doesn't make Link hold back, as we've seen that even fighting a woman who was his friend and who has fed him did not hinder him any time the occurrence happened, such as when he fought that Yeti woman whom I forget the name of in Twilight Princess, and Zelda whenever she gets possessed. Mind you, he probably wouldn't have erased them, but because they were his friends. Link has the Triforce of Wisdom and will do what he knows he will have to do to end the battle.
 
Dude, you gotta stop quoting everything. Just quote numbers or something, it's gonna fill out the space fast. And did you just ignore my pointing out of Yukari's precog?
 
Wisdom won't help against someone no one in his verse ever met and with powers he never fought before.

Also @Cal Her conceptual manip is based on the fact that "Boundaries" are created when the concept of something is created, as a way to separate them. Yukari can manipulate (And erase) said boundaries.
 
That's not true actually. Just because you're a ghost doesn't mean you're gonna be unaffected by space around you distorting. I do want to see someone toss a ghost towards a black hole to see what happens, but likely chance is they won't' last.
 
It depends. But ghosts are very often still bound by space and time. If they are, then they will be affected by space-time manip.
 
@Core, no, I didn't ignore the point, I hadn't seen it until after I refreshed the page when sending that. Is it as proficient as the Triforce of Wisdom's Precognition? And will it help her gain winning conditions against Link faster than he can against her?

@Saikou, the Triforce of Wisdom doesn't only grant the user wisdom, but knowledge and other things like that and such.
 
@Core, if someone tossed a ghost into a black hole, that shows that they can affect intangible beings and harm souls, so if the black hole was made by them, it should probably work. If the black hole wasn't made by them, since the ghost is non-material, the spatial bending properties of the black hole probably shouldn't work on it.

@Saikou, they are usually bound by time, but not necessarily space. Hence why they can just pass through walls of physical things and fly around, as gravity doesn't hold much of a bind on them. Spatial Manipulation is also usually a physical ability, and I don't think they should need to show that they can to harm all forms of intangible beings such as ones that are non-corporeal or ones that have elemental Intangibility, but non-material Intangibility is different.
 
Actually, Link's intangibility is greater than that of ghosts, given that ghosts can still be affected by Link's weapons, while Link can't. For example, Link lays a bomb (Link can hit ghosts, btw), it'll hurt the ghost, but not him.

The only knowledge Link needs is to not be an idiot and go across 4 kilometers to fight someone when he has an auto-win option right there.
 
Passing through walls is certainly not being unbound by space. To be unbound by space would mean being unaffected by space being warped and likely being able to teleport.

And if you want to got that way, then Yukari's casual attacks can damage ghosts and her spatial manip has been used on Non-Corporeals.
 
@Hadou

Okay, bad comparison. Point is, you're not immune to spatial manipulation if you're intangible or if you're not harmed by things that can harm intangibles.

Precognition can only delay the inevitable in a situation against Yukari who has a likelier and easier chance of ending Link.

@Cal

Black holes messes up time and space but then again discussion of astronomy has no place here right now. Was just using a comparison. Bad comparison. Edit - and I really can't argue as well as others here ;; I should play LoZ again
 
Nah Cal, Gargoyle made the thread. He was the instigator. Lynch him instead : D

We gotta take Ls on our fave characters someday sadly. (Looks solemnly at Beast vs Accel)
 
Touhou is filled with a variety of ghosts and such. And Gods (That Yukari affected with her Spatial Manip) borders on Abstracts, given that they are living ideas.

Also Cal what even is Link's intangibility? If it's his ghost form, then he's not "more" intangible than other ghosts. That's just game mechanic. If not, then he needs to activate it first.
 
Cal, have you given up on the idea that Link can win with a single thought(i.e. the Triforce working merely with desires, which I can grab the quote I said above if needed) when it is still, you know, possible? ovo
 
Should point out though that Ghosts in Touhou are as tangible as anyone out there, tho.

Phantoms are the ones who are semi-tangible or something to that effect.
 
You know, looking back, I'm 100% sure that Link instantly erasing anyone just because of a 4 KM gap never happened.
 
@Fate Ghosts have both been stated and shown to be non-corporeal though. They're the same as phantoms in that regard.
 
He never had to fight anyone at that distance, nor did he have items that could affect at that range most of the time.

Yes, the Triforce can win it, and Yukari is more casual than Link, but Saik's making better arguments...
 
@Saik Most of the time Ghosts are portrayed as corporeal and can't even do ghostly stuff like going through walls, usually. They separate them from Phantoms who are the ones with the whole ghostey ghosty thingies, intangible,e tc. Weird, but hey, Touhou...
 
"However, since they don't have physical bodies, even if they can touch objects, they cannot be injured."

They just have more substances than Phantoms, but are still Non-Corporeal.
 
So with both sides having means of meeting winning conditions, the only argument at this point is who goes first? Who is faster? Is Yukari faster at thinking than Link when speed is equalised? That sort of thing. What will influence them to do these things? Yukari's casual approach, and Link's Precognition. At this point, we are just assuming who is faster when voting, so I will refute Link winning, and change my vote to Inconclusive.
 
>Cal

Stupid weird format.... changing my responses...

But we've only seen her casual in situations that have no need for anyone to be serious. Even the encounter with Toyohime (One time it wasn't a danmaku related fight) she handled 'casually' but she already planned ahead for it to which is why the casualness is feigned.

>Fate

. *writes that down on more reasons why 2hu is hard to use in debates*

Though really I think the ones I know are the ones surrounding Yuyuko and Youmu's other half. So if you can harm that uh... Well she's half intangible. So you can cut half intangibles. Yeah, that's legit, what I'm saying is not false, definitely.
 
I wonder when people will stop using the "Yukari is casual!!", when her only feats of casualness are through fake-fighting, and even though these fights, she mercilessly spams her hax.
 
@Saik The exact same passage mentions they aren't as insubstantial as Phantoms and have trouble getting through stuff.

Considering that, Ghosts non corporeality is less reliable than that of the Phantoms.

My point was not *against* Ghosts having any form of non-corporeality at all. It was that using Phantoms is a better deal since they have better feats when it comes to intangibility.
 
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