Numbers vs Animals

[Mr. Bambu]

The aesthetics, you must admit, are pretty ******* great. Stumbled upon Borderlands recently since the new games are coming out and figured I'd toss this shit up in the air, plan on making like five Wolf matches to celebrate the game.

let's go. Speed equal, fight takes place in an arena full of Claptraps just cheering both of them on and making as much stupid noise as possible.

Zero, the Cyborg Ninja: 8 (Tactical Nuke, Apies, Jacky the Jack, Gargoyle, Dusty Raider, Thegla, Paul, Emperor)

vs

Wolf, the Prosthetic Shinobi: 8 (Sir Sun Man, Sir Ovens, Steven, CCMac, Meleenium, Triforce, Dargoo, Crabwhale)

or

Inconclusive (five years curse upon the man who chooses this)

 

[Sir_sun_man]

i'll go with wolf due to his better versitility and skill

 

[Mr. Bambu]

that is mighty vague and I didn't link this anywhere where did you find this who gave you this number

 

[TacticalNuke002]

Can Wolf die?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

He can be chopped up/KO'd. He lost his arm while he had the Divine Heir blood so his limbs are perfectly vulnerable for incap. But dying, truly dying, is essentially impossible in this case.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

well fine i'll go into detaile

first the skill

zero is described as being above avrage in Intelligence while wolf is described as being a ginues when it comes to combat already giving him an adventege since his entire life was nothing but training and fighting not to mention the meriad of techniques that he learns throughout the game putting him a league above zeros basic sword play

versitility

one big thing wolf has over zero is his resurrection ability which dose help him take opponents off gurd and unless zero knows about it he is getting a sword through the back of the neck

his prostetic gives him better manuvarablity as well as multiple attacks that would stun and disorantate zero or deal outright damage via axe or explosions via fire crackers

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Alright, that's more like it. I'll put you down for Wolf boyo.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

The man lost him arm before the Dragon's Blood kicked in if anyone was wondering.

 

[TacticalNuke002]

@Sir sun man

You clearly know nothing about Borderlands if that's your argument.

Skill:

Firstly, the intelligence stat in profiles is mostly arbitrary, and as far as skill goes, Zero is the best assassin in his universe which is quite the achievement considering the myriad of colourful killers present there. He is also equally proficient in open combat, capable of obliterating hordes of same tier enemies with utter ease. Also, "basic swordplay" gtfo of here. There are 17.75 million unique guns in Borderlands, and Zero is a master at using all of them.

Versatility:

Aside from the aforementioned amount of guns which include snipers, smgs, rifles, lmgs, rocket launchers, pistols, grenade launchers and various kinds of weird stuffs (like a gun that shoots exploding swords), Zero also has a wide range of abilities himself.

The first is his HUD which is canonical and not a gameplay element because Claptrap finds and gives it to you from the corpse of a dead vault hunter, and Angel repeatedly hacks into it to communicate with you. It tracks a bunch of stuff like health, shield remaining etc. But the most important element of the HUD in combat is its minimap and hostility detection. Normally, non-hostile enemies aren't detected by the HUD but the moment they turn hostile, they show up on the HUD. The HUD can even track invisible enemies like stalkers, so sneaking up on Zero is a huge no.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Sekiro doesn't have to sneak. He can block gunfire with the umbrella, and he has ranged weaponry of his own. To add to that, the grapple hook can help him close the gap pretty easily, and his skill is arguably far greater than Zero's due to the greater number of CQC skills Sekiro aquire over the course of the game.

What's more, the Mortal Blade has an extended slash, something Zero won't even consider, so if it hits him he's done for.

 

[TacticalNuke002]

Second would be his holgraphic projection and invisibility.


Zero can deploy a hologram that acts and reacts like himself and draw enemy attention. He can also go invisible and either stab or shoot his enemies. He is also adept at dealing with highly mobile enemies (pretty much every enemy in Borderlands is hyper mobile, being able to jump huge distances and a large portion of them being able to fly).

 

[TacticalNuke002]

Also, because of the sheer amount of enemies Zero fights at once, he is also adept at dealing with his own Versatility getting sent back at him.

And Wolf's not blocking any of the AOE attacks, especially the acid ones. Zero can just go invisible and start his Danmaku barrage, or sneak attack with his sword.

 

[TacticalNuke002]

Note: I don't particularly care if Zero loses. Its just that Sir sun man's ignorance filled "intellectual analysis" vote kinda pissed me off. More so that it was actually counted by Bambu considering pretty much everything is wrong.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Tac

Chill out

Ye?

Everything's okay, malicious intent wasn't present it was just a vote

moving on, I assume Tac votes Zero and Ovens votes Wolf. I will add these to the board.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

Note: I don't particularly care if Zero loses. Its just that Sir sun man's ignorance filled "intellectual analysis" vote kinda pissed me off. More so that it was actually counted by Bambu considering pretty much everything is wrong.

jesus calm down pal i didn't insult you

an opinion is an opinion there is nothing here to get heated over

 

[TacticalNuke002]

Yeah, I vote for Zero via an astronomical versatility advantage (skill is arguable), range advantage (via snipers that can hit from kilometres away), better detection (via HUD) and eventually figuring out and incapacitating via KO.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I'd argue at least one of those points but fair enough, didn't expect a Borderlands thread of all things to become heated.

Current votes are as follows:

Wolf - 2 (Sir Ovens, Sir Sun Man)

Zero - 1 (Tactical Nuke)

Incon - 0

 

[TacticalNuke002]

You don't even know how angry I am. Especially regarding Borderlands.

Borderlands 3 is an Epic Games Store exclusive for 6 months before it comes to Steam the wait is killing me on the inside.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Just get it on Epic though

Unless it has like stuff where you can get extra things from past games

 

[TacticalNuke002]

I can but I don't trust Epic. My Tencent Gaming Buddy tries to steal info from me anyway, and Tencent owns Epic.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

gaming politics

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

I mean Epic's pulling some shady shit.

Honestly I think I'll be sideing with Tactical here. Zero FRA.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Epic's been buying the rights to every game but honestly it doesn't bother me much

PS4 for lyfe

 

[Sir_sun_man]

TacticalNuke002
first yes zero is mobile like most bosses and high tier enemy in sekiro also large jumps and flight is not really that much of a great mobility as it dosen't really corelate much into dodging

lady butterfly littraly zooms around the room like a mad woman wolf can't only match but exeed her in mobility due to his graplin hook that allows him to not only close the distance in a few short moments as well as avoid dangerus attacks by grappling away

not sure if holograms count as an illusion but sekiro has resistense to illusions as he can nullify illusions with Snap seeds or Lazulite Axe but ageing not sure if holograms count as illusions so don't mind this point much

second yes he is the best assasin in his universe but heres the thing most people in said universe are absolute morons/lunetics/psicopaths or sociopaths but that wouldn't matter much considering this is a balls out fight and not a who is a better assasin since ya know assasins aren't know for going at their enemies head on

and yes zeros fighting style is rather basic compared to wolfs since most we really see form him is acrobatics with impalment and basic slashes most of the time we actually see the guy while wolf has a wide verity of skills and techniques that would allow wolf to get a leg up on zeros rather basic fighting style

third yeah 17 million guns dose he have them all in his pokets? no he dosen't unless we want to give him acsess to all of them for some reasons, and who said this fight is going to have both combatants littral kilomeaters away? wolf is an upclose fighter he would close distance as fast as possible and after that its going to be a sword fight in which wolf would trounse zero via better fighting techniques, not to mention that the guy has an umbreal shild that blocks bullets preaty well. Also he can catch lighting i doubt bullets would do much as you know, he can also deflect bullets https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wrs_IrQhylU

forth you still haven't addrest the fact that wolf would have huge adventege over zero the second he ressurects as even with the hud he would still be regestered as dead and a dead man suddunly standing up wouldn't be somthing zero would expect that would give wolf an element of suprise even if zero managed to match him in skill(which he woun't) and would alow wolf to get in a hit, a fire cracker or a stab in either heavly dameging zero or disoriantating him putting him at a big disadventage, and before you bring up the hud ageing wolf can close the distence with his grapling hook before it picks him up after he gets up

fifth what do you mean he can take on multiple enemies on his level at the same time? he is one of the few low 7B in borderlands aka the top tiers he when we see cutsence(aka no gameplay mechanics interfirense) he littraly one shots most of his enemies or just guts them in one slice or stab(seen in tales from borderalands which is canon by the by) which also reminds me the times we see zero in cutsence he is only using his sword as his main weapon and not guns(not saying he dosen't use them just saying that he seems to prefer to use the sword over guns). Hell even the lower high 7C protags can one shot most enemies they face the only enemies that are on a simular levels that we face in game are bosses which zero can take on his own but i really dought that he can take a great amount of them at once

about AOEs yeah he isn't blocking them but what stops him from dodging them exactly? since you know multiple bosses in sekiro have AOEs and wolf can dodge them just fine

also both of them are masters of stealth invisibility(which wolf himself has) or not nither one of them is sneaking up on the other no matter what they really do, not to mention that he can detect invisble enemies The Folding Screen Monkeys can atest to that

 

[Sir_sun_man]

Epic's been buying the rights to every game but honestly it doesn't bother me much
PS4 for lyfe

its not that they are buying out games to make them epic exclusives they have actual damned spy wear in their launcher

 

[TacticalNuke002]

Holograms are tech.

Mobility isn't much of an issue to Zero. He can chuck a homing singularity grenade at Wolf and take potshots while Wolf floats around helpless.

Except Zero is known for using his assassination techniques in the middle of a pitched battle. And there's a ton of skilled characters like Mordecai in the verse. And Zero is superior in skill to them.

Zero prefers range. He only uses melee when someone is too close, or if he is invisible. While Wolf tries to get close, he gets turned into melted swiss cheese.

There are 17 million guns. Zero would use four of the very best. And he's deadly accurate with them. Those are Low 7-B bullets, so no reason they should be inferior to Low 7-B lightning other than AP values. And no, you can't deflect explosive, electricity or corrosive bullets. Since they'll explode in his face, electrocute him and melt whatever he's blocking with.

There's literally a mission where Jack pays you to kill yourself, and rez from a nearby New-U. And in any case, he's pretty much emotionless and has seen more surprising stuff than a dead man getting up for him to get fazed (there a boss in the spooky themed DLC who splits into two and continues fighting when killed once).

All enemies in Borderlands are Low 7-B. The calc comes from a durability feat by a Loader, which is one of the weakest enemies in the game.

Zero is extremely accurate, and at that range, dodging every time will be extremely difficult.

The folding screen monkeys have a tell. Zero doesn't.

 

[Jackythejack]

Zero FRA

 

[CCMac27]

I love Wolf but sadly I have to go for Zero on this one

 

[Sir_sun_man]

TacticalNuke002
1. yeah i figured thats why i said don't pay much mind to that

2.the gravity nades will be a problem so i conside on that point

3. never said that there weren't skilled combatants in the verse i just said that the large majorety aren't also Mordecai is littraly one of the first protags(there isn't really a ton of skilled fighters most of the main crue and a few side charaters are skilled but most bosses and enemies simply aren't) not to mention that his assasination targets seem to be politcal

4. i beg a differe in an up close fight(which this will certently become) he mainly uses his sword seen in tales form boarderlands(canon) where he only used his sword as a weapon even when he could use guns

5. well that needs to be specified by the op which guns zero gets, which could also get wolf some amps via sword buffs(the one hit madness will be intresting, and yeah you can't defelect but you can dodge them a thing that wolf dose the most i'd say(also dodging gunfire<dodging and catching actaul lighting also he seems to be imune to lighting dmg when he reflects it so i don't really see how bullets are any different) also high 7c not low 7B

6. That wasn't my point my point was that he would not expect that the opponet that he just killed would get right up like nothing happened and the fact that he would expect that wouldn't be adventageus for wolf to use one of his many prostetic abilities to daze him or harm him.

7. where did you get the low 7B loaders from exactly? since you know they scale to a high 7C exlosion or more specificly the exepted 243.871 kilotons of TNT all the high 7C protags scale to that. Because if they where low 7B zero would be 7B flat since he can one shot them.

8. i don't really see how since wolf can dodge AOEs from close and long range.

9. first he is not totally invisible he has a slight outlind and bend light around himself, second his invisbility is extremly short lasting and the only way we see him increase the duration of said ability is to kill other charaters which woun't happen here

also forgot to mention wolf is higher on the low 7b scale since he is 3.82 while zero is low 7B via being far suprior to the high 7C but lets put him on the 2.8 megatons from the high end of the calculation so wolf has an AP adventege

 

[QrowBarr]

Wolf FRA.

 

[CCMac27]

Changing to Wolf

 

[Jackythejack]

my vote for Zero wasn't counted I'm offended.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

my vote for Zero wasn't counted I'm offended.

I legitimately missed that I shall add it now mah boy

 

[Schnee_One]

Zero FRA

 

[Mr. Bambu]

A dead even match.

Good.

Best Borderlands Character (Lilith almost takes it, but only almost) vs Second Best Sekiro character (Black Badger, no question, Greirat lives on through him)

 

[QrowBarr]

it would be a shame if I double back and pick inconclusive

 

[Mr. Bambu]

At this rate it's going to end up this way anyways, which I'm cool with. Both sides have been spoken for well.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

At this rate it's going to end up this way anyways, which I'm cool with. Both sides have been spoken for well.

it just might (type 8 imortality)

 

[Jackythejack]

Gaige is the best borderlands character.

I dunno who else is competing for that spot tho.

Tiny Tina

 

[Mr. Bambu]

bugger tiny tina she's awful

if someone has to die or lose in this scenario I'd like to imagine some Mortal Kombat-esque fatality including the Claptraps, or just the winner gets to leave and the other is just left with Claptraps doing petty errands for them