Non Canon Profiles

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

>Including non-canon stuff in canon stuff

Unless we're dealing with some ultra composite profile, I think that's one of the few things that probably will never be allowed.

 

[Arigarmy]

Ohhh thank GOD. This wiki is gonna be extra interesting for me then. Lol, no one is gonna use Canon Goku anymore if we get the composite VIDEOGAME boi!

Or people could just be sensible and start with the manga DBS version.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

If we already have standards and are planning to follow them, then what are we discussing here?

Literally nothing. Some people overreacted over the Smash things and started to act like non-canon profiles are against the rules.

 

[Amexim]

How is Composite VIDEOGAME Goku against the requirements though? He has unique abilities from the games, and I mean, at worst, we get Xeno Goku, who has a unique story, unique scaling, popularity, and unique abilities (arguably? Because the scans I were shown are in Japanese, and I don't feel like going through a YouTube video series of an English patch that MIGHT not even exist to get rid of any down players or doubt surrounding him having unique abilities). I really don't see why Composite VIDEOGAME versions of characters are bad, especially if it's in a case like Goku and characters from Dragon Ball Heroes, who display unique hax and resistances. For example, God Goku can manipulate space time to drop Meteors. He would get Mind and Magic resistance, both SS4 and Blue, which is more than we can say for Kirby (Smash) or the likely retconned SMT Dante*, who have LESS abilities than their Canon versions as the biggest difference between their Canon versions and them. I just think Xeno Goku, or, even better, Composite VIDEOGAME versions of characters should exist based on saving all the effort for compiling characters from different videogames with different feats, like the Naruto Storm games. I feel like that should be acceptable.

• (again, I say retconned because he didn't appear in the rereleased versions of it and was replaced with a Raido. That "multiverse point" people brought up is kinda shaky-- I mean, if he A. Can be replaced by another character with no drastic changes, then he amounts to a "story relevant" cameo, if at all story relevant. And B. His replacement was probably because of issues between it being acceptable for a Capcom character to be put in the Conquest version of something. Either way, any arguments that try to say he is Canon to the current, Atlas published and approved versions of the story have about as much merit as Katakuri Charlotte still being a Logia, which was retconned in a similar way, rewriting the parts of an already written story. Not saying that Dante has to go. He just isn't Canon to SMT anymore. I don't think you can make the Multiverse argument in the same way that you could with Pokémon, where there's more evidence to connect versions of different games than there is to connect a retconned release with a removed cameo character to the real Canon. Bigger leaps, imo. But, again, Dante should stay.)

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Amexim, you are not making any sense. The Raidou point is completely wrong.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

First off: COMPOSITE Video Game Goku? Unless all Dragon Ball Video Games are part of the same universe that's definitively not going to happen.

 

[Arigarmy]

Never said I was against it, just sounds like one way big of a project to even begin when actual suggestions for changes haven't even been discussed in the slightest outside of "boy i wish i could do [character]". From the look of it, it sounds like a lot of work just for the endgame to make the ultimate Goku fans cream. No offense.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

This thread should just be closed.

 

[Arigarmy]

More like redone, weren't you planning on doing this type of thing already Matt?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Not really. People just thought I was. I think current standards are fine but just slightly looser. Which is what's happening anyway. See Xenoverse Goku profile.

 

[Amexim]

Dante in SMT's abilities: Powers and Abilities: Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Regenerationn (Unknown), Expert Swordsman and Marksman, Elemental Attacks (Lightning, Earth and Force/Wind), Instant Death (With the Almighty attack Stinger), Stat Buffing/Debuffing (Increases enemy strength and decreases enemy defense with Provoke, Removes all debuffs with Holy Star, Increases strength by 1.5 with Son's Oath), Almighty attacks that bypass all defenses, Can kill souls, Can hurt intangible beings

Vs his canon counterpart:

Powers and Abilities: Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Weapon Mastery, Skilled actor, musician, and athlete, Energy Manipulation, Elemental Manipulation, Hellfire Manipulation, Darkness Manipulation, Light Manipulation, Time Manipulation (Via Quicksilver style and the Bangle of Time, allowing him to slow and stop time respectively), Regenerationn (At least Low-Mid, though it works almost instantaneously), Teleportation, Telekinesis, Levitation, Self-Duplication, Can survive without oxygen and in a vacuum, Superhuman Willpower, Energy Absorption (Can absorb the powers of other demons and fashion them into relics), Can channel his devil energy into other objects such as weapons to amplify their effectiveness, Summoning, Spatial Manipulation via Yamato, Transformation in the form of Devil Trigger and Royalguard Style, Flight via the Devil Trigger, Self-Healing via the Royalguard Style, Can induce mental incapacitation via dark voids, Bat Manipulation via Nevan, Preternatural Senses/Minor Precognition via the Alastor blade, Minor Transmutation with Gilgamesh, Can harm Intangible beings and destroy souls, Can transmute the souls of dead demons into weapons, Attack Reflection with Royal Guard, Resistance to Mind Manipulation, Soul Manipulation, Blood Manipulation, Poison, Illusions, Fear Manipulation and Hellfire

I mean, SMT Dante doesn't even have the Devil Trigger. He definitely has Electricity and Wind Manipulation through his weapons, don't know about earth Manipulation. Don't think he has Instant Kill, Buffing, or Almighty attacks normally, but in SMT he doesn't even have his Regenerationn.

Xeno Goku likely has a few things through approximation, but the Videogame composite Goku would definitely have unique abilities beyond what we normally know. Space Time Manipulation. Resistances. Summoning. Being able to merge with Shenron, so possibly even Shenron's powers. That's almost as much as what Dante has in SMT.

 

[Amexim]

And why would being a part of the same universe be a requirement for a Composite. They are a part of the same Universe, by the way, but still.

 

[Amexim]

And I am not wrong.

"He is only available in the updated release of Shin Megami Tensei III: Nocturne, titled Shin Megami Tensei III: Nocturne Maniax. In the re-release of Maniax, titled Shin Megami Tensei III: Nocturne Chronicles alongside Devil Summoner 2: Raidou Kuzunoha vs. King Abaddon, Raidou Kuzunoha the XIV replaces Dante as the recruitable character."

Got it from the SMT wiki, but, you know.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Jesus, Amexim. Use paragraphs. And a non-translated re-release doesn't make Dante non-canon. Stop cluttering this thead with this.

 

[Amexim]

My point isn't that he should be removed and this argument can be held somewhere else. But I am saying that it would be easier to make videogame profiles composite across them all, as there's no need for 40 different game profiles to be made. Relating it to the smash Bros thing and bringing up the idea that it would be useful to bring in stats or feats from videogames like Storm 4 or Ultimate Ninja, where Itachi blows up an island with a Katon. Stuff like that should be either in a blog or placed in a composite videogame profile cataloging the feats from every game the character has so long as it's not a crossover without a story. Smash MAY be an exception but who knows.

I posted like that because I didn't know how live or dead the thread was. My bad. Lol

 

[ByAsura]

Firstly, why are composites being discussed, that it the literal opposite of the discussion at hand.

Secondly, the only true advantages of having character profiles split apart by canons is a less cluttered profile page, and a good differential for maybe something like comic and live action, or manga and anime, but a different part of a same material wouldn't really work.

 

[Aeyu]

The biggest benefit I can see is that popular non-canon but licensed characters will be able to be used without needless questions from fans if this or that is canon; you can control the phenomena instead of having arguments about it being a problem (Manga vs Anime Goku comes to mind since many people assume he is capable of using Hakai because the manga said so and that Vegetto is > Beerus because the manga said so)

Plus, there are many characters popular in VS debates across the internet that are NOT canon but are licensed, like, as I mentioned before, Star Trek characters from the books and non-canon comics, not to mention several other verses I can think of.

 

[Amexim]

Like I said, composites would be useful if the characters are prevalent in many games. Like I said, if those aren't allowed, we could make blogs categorizing videogame feats. This is important because this is kinda what Smash Bros is-- a Non-canon videogame. If it was, like, One Piece and he had as many games like Dragon Ball or Naruto with crazy unique stories or something and the games gave the Straw Hats wild Hax or stats, then that would warrant Composite Luffy profiles or something. That's what I meant. Sorry if I didn't make sense initially.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

@Aeyu We aren't really talking about non-canon characters but non-canon versions of characters.

 

[Saint_rider_890]

Oi oi why i do i fell there some double standart . If SMT Dante have his profile why DBH Goku not allowed ? This is double standart or what ?

 

[Arigarmy]

whats a standart

 

[Amexim]

I mean, we have Xeno Goku now. So... Eh...?

 

[Saint_rider_890]

Sorry i don't see someone finally make Xeno Goku