Noel Vermillion Changes?

[Lina_Shields]

So I discussed with Bowser in regarding to Noel, and he said this.


Powers and Abilities for Noel would include:

• Spatial Manipulation, Soul Manipulation (Bolverk damages the soul, and fires concentrated blasts of Seithr, which not only drains the soul of the victim, but can also pierce through space, so she can ignore conventional durability), Phenomena intervention, Magic (Has inherited control of the Azure)
• Magic can be included due to her having inherited control of the Azure. This is likely both her base and Mu 12 forms.

AP and Durability changes:

• Where does Small Building level Noel come from?
• Base Noel's AP may likely be 7-C via scaling from Ragna. Possibly 6-B via scaling from Jin and Ragna's base forms, but I am not sure.

Other things:

• Apparently, the Master Unit: Amaterasu is able to inherit the full power of the Azure, which is a power greater than the Boundary itself.
• Apparently Noel/Mu No. 12 is able to reset, destroy, and recreate timelines due to the power of the Azure. This statement needs to be verified however.

Any thoughts on this would be appreciated, especially ThePerpetual's thoughts. Thank you.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

For the Powers, i can go with that. Soul Manipulation seems like a sort of common ability so Noel having it is pretty much not surprising to me. And it's good enough hax along with the spatial manipulation part..which goes along with it as well, maybe? IDEK *shrug* That ones fine.

For AP and Dura, same reason why i keep asking myself of where Makoto Nanaya is rated as Building level for...Perp's going to really need to fix that one up. In any case, i'd like to hear Perp's thoughts on this one and of the other stuff at the bottom on the "other things".

 

[Drellix]

^

 

[ThePerpetual]

I still have this, Makoto, and a bit more to get to on Blazblue. Everything here, while possibly not worded as well as it could be, seems pretty accurate to me. Didn't she at least hold her own against the Gigant: Take-Mikazuchi, in base? That'd warrant solid AP/Dura/Speed scaling, though it'd just be that, no "possibly/likely higher" clause.

 

[BowserRulesAll]

Does this mean that Noel should be upgraded to Universal+? IMO, she should for multiple reasons: Her inheriting the full Azure, a power greater than an universe with infinite intersecting timelines (which she also can reset, create, and destroy), her holding superior command over the Master Unit: Amaterasu, who has displayed this level of power, and her actuay being the Master Unit, while being designed to destroy said unit as Mu -No.12-.

 

[Zeldasmash]

Noel fought the Mikazuchi in Chrono Phantasma alongside Jin and Unlimited Ragna.

 

[ThePerpetual]

@Bowser That sounds like a hiraliously massive outlier, but I'd not say it's not possible just yet. I need to see the exact nature of this inheritance, if it noticeably affects her raw damage output in any notable way... etc. If only I had CentralFiction. ;-;

 

[Zeldasmash]

From what we know in Central Fiction so far is that she's immortal. Hakumen cannot kill her as his sword just phases through her (he can cut through time so, yeah) and Hibiki slashed her multiple times only to find out it didn't even scratch her. The only one that might do something about that is Izayoi due to Immortal Breaker.

As for her being Universal+, we don't know the full details. The only thing we know is that she can deny everyone's wish due to her not liking the outcome and just resets everything. Wether or not this will change throughout the story, we don't know, we're going to have to wait until early October for that.

 

[BowserRulesAll]

@Perpetual: Well, then she is still the Master Unit, which would explain Hakumen phasing through her, and by virtue of beinv the Master Unit, that alone should mean she needs an upgrade, as the latter is Universal+ and possibly Omnipresent.

 

[Yoshirocks92]

@Zeldadude: And also another way that Noel can die aside from the Izayoi's Immortal Breaker is by sealing her soul within Kushinada's Lynchpin which is another way of killing her.

 

[BowserRulesAll]

As i said, Noel being Universal+ can't be an outlier since she's confirmed to be the Master Unit, who is capable of that kind of power. That coupled wuth the fact that she inherited the Azure, which is a power greater than the Boundary (an alternate dimension), should make her capable of this mind of power. Which thanks to being her base form, also makes Ragna, Tsubaki, Rachel, Azrael, Terumi, maybe Makoto and Nu scale to this, since they all have displayed either equality or superiority to Noel.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

^So everyone that's equal to/greater than Noel would Low 2-C, is what you're trying to say right?

 

[Antvasima]

I agree that if Noel can rewrite timelines, that is a Low 2-C feat.

However, that does not mean that she is automatically remotely this powerful physically, and that any characters that exceed her on said physical level should scale, regardless whether or not they can personally act on this scale themselves.

 

[BowserRulesAll]

@Crossverse: Exactly. Sorry for responding late, timezones got in the way (AKA: I had to sleep).

@Antvatisma: That seems reasonable. Though it still means that everyone is able to go up against beings with Low 2-C Hax.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, does she use her timeline-rewriting hax against them?

 

[BowserRulesAll]

If she has to, she uses her timeline hax to, say, rewrite catastrophic events. Though i dunno if that counts..

Edit by Lina: Edited so post is easier to read.

 

[BowserRulesAll]

Oh, whoops. Sorry about that.

 

[Antvasima]

Then I think that a separate "Low 2-C via hax" rating for Noel alone should be sufficient.

 

[BowserRulesAll]

Fair enough. Btw, Noel has Small-Scale Reality-Warping. She can create exact replica's of the immediate area, transport others there, and then perform Phenomenon Intervention, which she can basically deny anything that happens, and erase anything in it, though it doesn't affect the area around it

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[Zeldasmash]

As i said, Noel being Universal+ can't be an outlier since she's confirmed to be the Master Unit, who is capable of that kind of power. That coupled wuth the fact that she inherited the Azure, which is a power greater than the Boundary (an alternate dimension), should make her capable of this mind of power. Which thanks to being her base form, also makes Ragna, Tsubaki, Rachel, Azrael, Terumi, maybe Makoto and Nu scale to this, since they all have displayed either equality or superiority to Noel.

She would be Low 2-C due to hax, hax which the other characters you mentioned don't have or they do but nowhere near to her extent. They would at best be 5-B (not sure about Makoto though).

Speaking of which, when are upgrades going to be implemented? Just wondering.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that Zeldasmash seems to make sense.

And it depends on Lina.

 

[Lina_Shields]

We need Perpetual to come to this thread and see if he approves of the proposed upgrades or not.

I am still uncomfortable with upgrading everyone to Low 2-C however, unless they manage to destroy the master unit, or able to destroy the space-time continuum they are in.

Edit: I agree with Zeldasmash that Noel should only Low 2-C via hax, and that only applies to her Mu-12 form most likely...

 

[Zeldasmash]

I think it can apply to both.

As for the other characters, none of them can reach Low 2-C by themselves unless your name is Amaterasu or Takamagahara, even with hax. I think the absolute best most of the high tiers can get to is 5-B or 5-A if Central Fiction gives us some new feats for the characters (Dark Susano'o in particular).

 

[BowserRulesAll]

Well.. it's specifically Noel's base that applies to everything i said. Though tbh, it does make sense what everyone says. Still feels good to know Noel has Low 2-C hax

 

[Zeldasmash]

I never thought i'd see a day where we can find a main character from the BlazBlue series that's stronger then most of the Guilty Gear verse XD (Amaterasu and Takamagahara don't count).

Terumi can be somewhere around that ball park if we give him Takamagahara as a key category as they are the reason he did what he did throughout Continuum Shift what with all the timeline mess ups and insane amount of precog, but i don't think it will happen (plus this can stretch out to Relius, Hazama & Izanami).

 

[Antvasima]

So, has somebody adjusted Noel's profile to "Low 2-C with hax" yet?

 

[Lina_Shields]

Not just that. We need to figure out the overall stats for Noel's AP as well.

Noel's AP should be changed to:

Attack Potency: At least Town level (Comparable to weakened Ragna) | At least Country level (Should be comparable to base Ragna), Universe level+ via reality warping

However, I remember Ragna channeling his Ars Magus/Unlimited mode against his fight Hazama. Now I am wondering, would this be Ragna channeling the Black Beast during the Hazama fight in Contiuum Shift?

Attack Potency: At least Town level (Comparable to weakened Ragna) | At least Moon level to Small Planet level, possibly up to Planet level (Likely comparable to Ragna using the Black Beast's powers), Universe level+ via reality warping

Now then, someone give me a valid reason to write down for Universe level+ Noel via hax, so I can write it down and upload it to her profile.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

If Noel is comparable to Ragna in both his weakened and Base states, i'm fine with that there.

 

[Lina_Shields]

ThePerpetual needs to finalize this proposal regarding this. If he does not agree, he needs to give his own suggestions so I can upload it to Noel's page.

He should come around eventually however.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Well he did say he was personally going to take care of the verse so....

 

[BowserRulesAll]

So... we basically wait for Perp to either agree or disagree?

 

[Lina_Shields]

Yea pretty much. I have limited knowledge in regards to Blazblue so I can't make the final call regarding this.

 

[BowserRulesAll]

Okay. Sad thing is i can't make the call either, since i'm essentially a vessel for "User:Yoshirocks92", and i'm just repeating what he says, because i believe him since he's the biggest BlazBlue expert i know.

 

[ThePerpetual]

"Attack Potency: At least Town level (Comparable to weakened Ragna) | At least Country level(Should be comparable to base Ragna), Universe level+ via reality warping"

However, Post-ChronoPhantasma, her base form was strong enough to stand up to Izayoi, who just before that point had fought on-par with Makoto and immediately afterwards fought against Base Jin, as well as to a seithr-amped Take-Mikazuchi so I guess her base form grew in strength? I suppose two seperate tabs for Calamity Trigger/Continuum Shift base and ChronoPhantasma and Central Fiction base would be appropriate. And, of course, Mu-12 is stronger than base by a fair margin, so a "possibly higher" clause isn't unwarranted.

I'll double-check the profile eventually to be sure everything's squared away, until then feel free to make the edits.

 

[Zeldasmash]

Does that include the upgrade's to characters like Terumi, Azrael and Izanami? They have gotten upgrades a while ago. Just asking.

 

[ThePerpetual]

Sure, go for it. I'll double-check on them as well.

 

[Zeldasmash]

I agree on the category split with Noel. I think it should be:

Base (Calamity Trigger, 9-A) | Base (Chrono Phantasma, 6-B) | Mu-12 (5-C to 5-B) | Hax (Low 2-C)

 

[ThePerpetual]

Naaah. Even in the beginning, Base Noel shouldn't be that much weaker than Iron Tager (Likely Town level), and I don't see why we'd assume Mu-12 is on-par with the Black Beast itself given that only Hakumen and Kokonoe have thus far beaten one single-handedly.

 

[Zeldasmash]

So basically 7-C Pre-Chrono Phantasma, 6-B post Chrono Phantasma, 6-B possibly higher with Mu-12 and both get Low 2-C with hax?