Nobara Upgrade CRT

[Rogue_Forge]

Ok so the new Nobara downgrades are pretty dumb so here's all the stuff she scales to

Nobara is a Grade 3 sorcerer who is a candidate for Grade 1, there's really no way they would request Nobara to be a Grade 1 if she gets one shot by somewhat strong Grade 2 spirits (Small Building level) as shown below

Second, Mai's bullets (which Nobara got hit several times without major injury) make Maki bleed, which would scale her to Maki

Here's Nobara getting hit

And getting right back up seconds later (these are the same scene)

And here's her getting shot off guard

So she pretty easily scales to Mai's bullets (Building level from damaging Maki)

Third, later on she took a hit from Kechizu which damaged post GWE Yuji (City Block level)

This would put her around the same level as before

Her new AP and Durability sections would look something like this (Not exact)

Attack Potency: Street level (She is a Grade 3 Sorcerer, which means that she is stronger than Grade 3 Cursed Spirits and comparable to Semi-Grade 2 Cursed Spirits, the likes of which would be comparable to shotguns), higher with Hairpin, can negate conventional durability with Resonance | At least Building level (Should be comparable to her durability Can knock out a Semi-Grade 2 Sorcerer such as Nishimiya with just a squeaky hammer), higher with Hairpin, can negate conventional durability with Resonance | At least Building level possibly City Block level (Battled a Mahito clone, took a hit from Kechizu's blood that damaged Post-Goodwill event Yuji Itadori), Higher with Hairpin (Eso implied she could kill a weakened Kechizu and she ultimately did so), even higher with Black Flash (Incapacitated Kechizu with Black Flash), can negate conventional durability with Resonance

Durability: Street level (Can withstand her own strikes) | At least Building level (Can withstand several of Mai's bullets which can damage Maki) | At least Building level possibly City Block level (Fought a Mahito clone, who should be superior to Transfigured Humans who can break the ground, survived a hit from Kechizu's blood which can damage Post-Goodwill event Yuji)

Agree:

Disagree:

Neutral:

 

[LaserPrecision]

I mentioned she was recommended for Grade 1 in the first CRT. Kinda surprised it wasn't used in justifying the stats at all but it is what it is.

 

[Chariot190]

First of all, Nobara is a Grade 3 sorcerer who is a candidate for Grade 1, there's really no way they would request Nobara to be a Grade 1 if she gets one shot by somewhat strong Grade 2 spirits (Small Building level)

Isn't that a possibly at best? That isn't concrete, you're just saying that you'd think she should be that strong based on being a candidate, but she's 1. A candidate, not actually one. 2. Unless she's a candidate explicitly because she's more powerful than 9-A's, it doesn't mean much.

Second, her profile actively says that she scales to Mahito's clone which is as strong as his Transfigured humans but she only gets wall level from that despite Mahito's transfigured humans damaging and taking hits from Yuji Itadori, although their strength and durability does vary it would still put them between Building level and City Block level (likely just Building level, as them damaging CE infused Yuji wouldn't make sense when they also get torn through by Divergent Fist, even if it is stronger than a normal CE infused punch)

You were making a good point but then immediately undermined it by saying they vary...
Unless we know for a fact the clones she fought were a certain strength, they're unknown, if anything they'd be scaling off her instead of the other way around.

Lastly, this probably doesn't mean much but characters who have experienced a black flash are stated to have a far better understanding of CE as a whole

If it don't mean much why mention it?

Idk chief, none of this is solid, it's basically vibe scaling. Like at the absolute best you'd be looking at a "possibly", not a flat rating.

 

[Rogue_Forge]

You were making a good point but then immediately undermined it by saying they vary...
Unless we know for a fact the clones she fought were a certain strength, they're unknown, if anything they'd be scaling off her instead of the other way around.

Honestly Mahito's clone should be way above transfigured humans, its the same thing as Mahito physically just without cursed technique and likely less cursed energy

Idk chief, none of this is solid, it's basically vibe scaling. Like at the absolute best you'd be looking at a "possibly", not a flat rating.

Most characters in jjk don't have solid scaling, a lot of them don't even have profiles which could help solve the issue

also I forgot to mention this but the fact that Nobara is now thousands of times weaker than other Grade 3 sorcerers is ridiculous to me, that's literally not possible or else she would die to like, most cursed spirits

 

[Chariot190]

Honestly Mahito's clone should be way above transfigured humans, its the same thing as Mahito physically just without cursed technique and likely less cursed energy

Should be? It either is or it isn't, if we don't know that's just a possibly at best.

Most characters in jjk don't have solid scaling, a lot of them don't even have profiles which could help solve the issue

why are you trying to throw the whole verse under the bus, if other stuff is wrong, that just means it needs to be changed too.

also I forgot to mention this but the fact that Nobara is now thousands of times weaker than other Grade 3 sorcerers is ridiculous to me, that's literally not possible or else she would die to like, most cursed spirits

That isn't an argument? Or even a point? What's the baseline to being a Grade 3?
Is there a stated "they MUST be this strong"? In fact, isn't that were the current rating comes from actually, the minimum being a shotgun?
Maybe she would die to a lot of things and she just doesn't because she's skilled or fights at a distance?
An argument from incredulity isn't an argument based on fact, like I can promise you that mf Purple Haze isn't 9-B either but without solid feats and scaling, bro's stuck in hell.

 

[LaserPrecision]

I do think the OP should've included the scan that a Sorcerer of a certain level is expected to be capable of defeating a Curse of the same level, and fight a Curse 1 Grade beyond them (I.e. a Grade 1 Sorcerer is expected to easily beat Grade 1 Curses, and capable of fighting Special Grade Curses. In fact, Naobito was surprised that there were Special Grade Curses that required several Grade 1's to beat [The Disaster Curses who are outlier Curses]). Thus she'd need to have the AP to kill them (She has to take a piece of the person for Resonance to work, and her main method of attacking is using a hammer and blowing holes through peeps with nails). I don't think the Mahito point needed to be made since that's just a clone.

 

[Rogue_Forge]

I do think the OP should've included the scan that a Sorcerer of a certain level is expected to be capable of defeating a Curse of the same level, and fight a Curse 1 Grade beyond them (I.e. a Grade 1 Sorcerer is expected to easily beat Grade 1 Curses, and capable of fighting Special Grade Curses. In fact, Naobito was surprised that there were Special Grade Curses that required several Grade 1's to beat [The Disaster Curses who are outlier Curses]). Thus she'd need to have the AP to kill them (She has to take a piece of the person for Resonance to work, and her main method of attacking is using a hammer and blowing holes through peeps with nails). I don't think the Mahito point needed to be made since that's just a clone.

ok I added that image of sorcerers of grades being above curses of the same grade

 

[Rogue_Forge]

You were making a good point but then immediately undermined it by saying they vary...
Unless we know for a fact the clones she fought were a certain strength, they're unknown, if anything they'd be scaling off her instead of the other way around.

Also they don't really vary that much, they just very from between Building level to City Block level for normal transfigured humans unless Mahito explicitly makes them stronger or weaker

 

[Chariot190]

Also they don't really vary that much, they just very from between Building level to City Block level for normal transfigured humans unless Mahito explicitly makes them stronger or weaker

Prove it? Why do they already vary by 50x? How is that not already a lot? Why can't they vary more? What's the minimum? What's the cap? How do we know she boxed ones of a certain strength?
You keep saying "should" or "I feel" but not "is".

 

[Rogue_Forge]

Prove it? Why do they already vary by 50x? How is that not already a lot? Why can't they vary more? What's the minimum? What's the cap? How do we know she boxed ones of a certain strength?
You keep saying "should" or "I feel" but not "is".

I didn't say "Should" or "I feel" that entire time

They only "vary" because earlier on Building level VS Mahito arc Yuji was getting damaged and later on City Block level Shibuya Incident Yuji was getting damaged, I don't know where Nobara would scale but its one of those, its not that some of his transfigured humans are just way weaker than normal its just different parts of the story vary in strength

 

[Rogue_Forge]

She's AT LEAST building level, she might be City Block level

 

[Rogue_Forge]

Also it seems like you haven't even watched or read Jujutsu Kaisen, you're making a lot of questions that are easily explained by just watching/reading it

 

[PedjaTarzan]

She's AT LEAST building level, she might be City Block level

then put 8-C possibly 8-B

 

[Rogue_Forge]

then put 8-C possibly 8-B

Good Idea

 

[Chariot190]

I didn't say "Should" or "I feel" that entire time

"Honestly Mahito's clone should be way above transfigured humans" - you.
"the fact that Nobara is now thousands of times weaker than other Grade 3 sorcerers is ridiculous to me" - also you.

Among others. Your CRT for the most part has been exclusively these types of arguments.

They only "vary" because earlier on Building level VS Mahito arc Yuji was getting damaged and later on City Block level Shibuya Incident Yuji was getting damaged,

Wouldn't that just make them highly inconsistent then and thus not remotely a reliable source to scale?

I don't know where Nobara would scale but its one of those, its not that some of his transfigured humans are just way weaker than normal its just different parts of the story vary in strength

You're self sabotaging. If they vary, they vary, meaning they don't need to be a specific strength, and if they vary, we need to know how strong those she fought are, but you're not giving us evidence or proof they're a certain strength, and in fact stating the exact opposite.

Also it seems like you haven't even watched or read Jujutsu Kaisen, you're making a lot of questions that are easily explained by just watching/reading it

I binged it at like 4am a few months ago and the last like 1/3rd I read as it came out.
But, this is the last argument you want to make, today could be the first time I've ever heard of JJK, or i could have an encyclopedic knowledge of it, this isn't and never will, be an argument.

It's your CRT, it's your job to prove shit. It could be the most self evident thing in the goddamn world, it doesn't matter because we need solid proof to cite on the profile regardless of what you think for the sole fact that yeah, you're goddamn right, not everyone HAS read JJK and we're an indexing wiki, our whole job is to cite shit so randoms and people can look it up and go "oh ok I get it".

She's AT LEAST building level, she might be City Block level

Prove it. The best you have is a "should be" based on things you yourself have effectively argued are both inconsistent in showings, and also vary in strength.
That isn't good enough for what you're proposing.

 

[Rogue_Forge]

I'm literally going off of what's ON HER PROFILE

Her profile already explicitly compares her to the transfigured humans that are fighting Yuji (Building level)

And varying because "Early in the story they were weak, later in the story they were strong" doesn't sabotage the fact that early in the story they were already Building level and later in the story when they could damage City Block level because Mahito got stronger and thus so would his CT and his proficiency in making strong souls, this is shown with several of his other abilities (Body repel and Polymorphic Soul Isomer)

She fought Mahito's clone which is accepted on her profile to be comparable to the exact Transfigured Humans that fought and damaged Yuji

 

[Chariot190]

I'm literally going off of what's ON HER PROFILE

Nothing wrong with sorting this out now, the goal is to make things better, not settle for the same ol if it can be done better.

Her profile already explicitly compares her to the transfigured humans that are fighting Yuji (Building level)

And varying because "Early in the story they were weak, later in the story they were strong"

Based on what exactly? Why?
Did they actually get stronger, or is it just not that consistent?

doesn't sabotage the fact that early in the story they were already Building level and later in the story when they could damage City Block level because Mahito got stronger and thus so would his CT and his proficiency in making strong souls, this is shown with several of his other abilities (Body repel and Polymorphic Soul Isomer)

Do they say as much here?

Like, I'm not sure what you don't understand, your word isn't good enough, that isn't how this wiki works, post the proof.
If it's legit, we add that shit to the profiles and it's said and done, but you're making this harder than it has to be.

She fought Mahito's clone which is accepted on her profile to be comparable to the exact Transfigured Humans that fought and damaged Yuji

Framing. It's accepted that she scales off some that can break the ground, which is 9-B.
actually i dont like how the profile says "should" either, is there not just a direct statement for this thing saying it's stronger?

 

[LaserPrecision]

I'm literally going off of what's ON HER PROFILE

Her profile already explicitly compares her to the transfigured humans that are fighting Yuji (Building level)

The transfigured humans mentioned in her AP section don't scale to Yuji. They scale to Wall level via the calc linked on her page afaik

 

[LaserPrecision]

actually i dont like how the profile says "should" either, is there not just a direct statement for this thing saying it's stronger?

I don't remember if there's an exact statement, but I think it says should because it should be obvious

It's prolly cuz Transfigured Humans are shown and stated to be weak, and the clone is Mahito like, transfiguring himself. And is just shown to be like, more resilient to attacks in general. There's also a statement that Mahito was at 40% power due to his clone that Nobara beat being destroyed by Yuji IIRC.

 

[Rogue_Forge]

The transfigured humans mentioned in her AP section don't scale to Yuji. They scale to Wall level via the calc linked on her page afaik

Nah, they damage base Yuji

 

[LaserPrecision]

Nah, they damage base Yuji

Did they? Genuinely don't remember.

 

[Rogue_Forge]

Did they? Genuinely don't remember.

It seems the scene was far more extended in the anime than the manga

In the anime they explicitly damage base Yuji, in the manga the best we see is that before divergent fist activates they take some minor damage but after it activated they get a hole punched through them

I don't think that's enough to quantify that exact scaling

 

[Rogue_Forge]

Still, Grade 3 sorcerers would scale to Grade 2 curses making her Small Building level

This type of scaling has been used in several other pages including Past Gojo, and pretty much All Grade 1's and Special Grades that don't have their own feats, just scaling to each other because they're both the same grade

 

[LaserPrecision]

Still, Grade 3 sorcerers would scale to Grade 2 curses making her Small Building level

Do you mean Semi-Grade 2?

 

[Rogue_Forge]

Do you mean Semi-Grade 2?

? are you referring to Nobara or the curses she can fight

 

[LaserPrecision]

? are you referring to Nobara or the curses she can fight

The Curses she can fight. You said she'd be able to fight a Grade 2. But Semi-Grade 2 comes after Grade 3, not Grade 2.

 

[Rogue_Forge]

The Curses she can fight. You said she'd be able to fight a Grade 2. But Semi-Grade 2 comes after Grade 3, not Grade 2.

Ijichi explicitly says Grade 2 Sorcerers are the strength of Grade 1 Curses not Semi-Grade 1 curses so Grade 3 sorcerers should be the strength of Grade 2 curses

Also when panda shows grade 2 and semi-grade 2 they are in the same row (Although I don't know if that means anything)

 

[LaserPrecision]

Ijichi explicitly says Grade 2 Sorcerers are the strength of Grade 1 Curses not Semi-Grade 1 curses so Grade 3 sorcerers should be the strength of Grade 2 curses

Also when panda shows grade 2 and semi-grade 2 they are in the same row (Although I don't know if that means anything)

I guess that's fine then. He may have put Semi-Grade 2 and Grade 2 in the same row because there's less distinction between them compared to Semi-Grade 1 and Grade 1. Dunno. Or it could've been done to save page space.

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

"Honestly Mahito's clone should be way above transfigured humans" - you.
"the fact that Nobara is now thousands of times weaker than other Grade 3 sorcerers is ridiculous to me" - also you.

Among others. Your CRT for the most part has been exclusively these types of arguments.


Wouldn't that just make them highly inconsistent then and thus not remotely a reliable source to scale?

You're self sabotaging. If they vary, they vary, meaning they don't need to be a specific strength, and if they vary, we need to know how strong those she fought are, but you're not giving us evidence or proof they're a certain strength, and in fact stating the exact opposite.

I binged it at like 4am a few months ago and the last like 1/3rd I read as it came out.
But, this is the last argument you want to make, today could be the first time I've ever heard of JJK, or i could have an encyclopedic knowledge of it, this isn't and never will, be an argument.

It's your CRT, it's your job to prove shit. It could be the most self evident thing in the goddamn world, it doesn't matter because we need solid proof to cite on the profile regardless of what you think for the sole fact that yeah, you're goddamn right, not everyone HAS read JJK and we're an indexing wiki, our whole job is to cite shit so randoms and people can look it up and go "oh ok I get it".

Prove it. The best you have is a "should be" based on things you yourself have effectively argued are both inconsistent in showings, and also vary in strength.
That isn't good enough for what you're proposing.

I feel like i should disagree with this crt FRA

 

[Rogue_Forge]

I feel like i should disagree with this crt FRA

ok ok but what about this

Ijichi explicitly says Grade 2 Sorcerers are the strength of Grade 1 Curses not Semi-Grade 1 curses so Grade 3 sorcerers should be the strength of Grade 2 curses

Also when panda shows grade 2 and semi-grade 2 they are in the same row (Although I don't know if that means anything)

Small Building level Nobara

 

[Chariot190]

ok ok but what about this



Small Building level Nobara

I don't think bro saying Nobara might be in shit, with a ranking that in and of itself isn't strictly power based, with the lower threshold of it being magnitudes below your proposal, acts as very good proof.

You're better off proving Mahito clone is 100% a certain tier, because this point again falls on what is effectively vibe scaling.

 

[LaserPrecision]

Small Building level Nobara

I just wanna say that I'm unsure of scaling Nobara to the Curse with the Small Building level because it was demolishing Megumi, a Grade 2 Sorcerer in combat. I can only imagine what would happen to Grade 3 Nobara.

 

[Rogue_Forge]

What about this attack not completely shredding through Nobara? if she's only street level this attack that damaged Yuji would have turned her into paste

 

[Rogue_Forge]

(Special Grade curses btw)

 

[Rogue_Forge]

I just wanna say that I'm unsure of scaling Nobara to the Curse with the Small Building level because it was demolishing Megumi, a Grade 2 Sorcerer in combat. I can only imagine what would happen to Grade 3 Nobara.

Megumi never stated what grade the curse is in either the manga or the anime so it might be above grade 2 actually

 

[Rogue_Forge]

Although it could scale to his durability

In fact, the exact Small Building level feat is from Mugumi getting slammed though a wall so yeah it scales to him

Which scales to Nobara because they are at least physically comparable

 

[Rogue_Forge]

Although this would downscale Megumi to Small Building level in base

 

[Gamecooob]

chill a lil' with the spam-posting

 

[LaserPrecision]

What about this attack not completely shredding through Nobara? if she's only street level this attack that damaged Yuji would have turned her into paste

This is fair. This is unironically smth I was gonna mention in the downgrade CRT but forgot. Tho it's only applicable to Nobara's later keys I believe.

Although it could scale to his durability

In fact, the exact Small Building level feat is from Mugumi getting slammed though a wall so yeah it scales to him

Which scales to Nobara because they are at least physically comparable

Why are Nobara and Megumi physically comparable? You have to provide evidence on the wiki. Vibe scaling isn't usually sufficient.

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

I agree that later nobara should 100% be 8-B but i'm less so on her earlier keys being higher.
Vote me agree but note what i said here