- 22,335
- 18,520
Continued from here.
I planned to have all the feats accepted before I did this, but the best way is probably just to force it by making this thread.
Gloxinia is > King, since he'd win in an arm wrestle.
It's explained that Force is simply physical strength, while combat class as a whole represents genuine strength (combat ability). Additionally, people who are relatively close in terms in terms of Force have consistently matched each other in clashes, such as Gilthunder and Howzer, Mini Diane, Derieri and Meliodas, Wailo and Dreyfus, etc.
Guila, Howzer, Gilthunder, Hendrickson and co being able to clash with Meliodas when Ban can't at full power can mostly be explained by the fact that they had vastly superior weaponry (which unlocks greater amounts of physical strength, even without the qualities of a Sacred Treasure) prior to the Albion Arc.
So, Force really has every reason to scale to Lifting Strength.
There's probably going to be some characters that can enhance their strengths to certain levels, or demonstrably don't have LS comparable to similar characters in their AP range. However, I don't recall any such instances with characters who have confirmed Force.
However, Force shouldn't be treated as linear when it comes to LS. For example, Elaine shouldn't downscale from Hawk just because their Force is similar, she should just upscale from weaker characters. And it shouldn't be directly scaled to AP either.
Now let's start applying some multipliers.
Snatch absorbs physical abilities, with Ban (who's half as strong as Meliodas normally, and capable of causing him to struggle) explicitly sapping all of Meliodas' strength, speed and durability (since Galand was less durable when Ban stole his abilities), to the point where he couldn't move at all. It definitely affects lifting strength, and Ban even notes that his body feels lighter due to the increased power. In spite of that, Demon Meliodas was able to regenerate all of his power and crush Ban's amplified wrist.
Then we also have the fact that Hendrickson linearly augmented himself with the power of a Gray Demon, who are physically strong enough to overpower Hendrickson, Gilthunder and Howzer with weaponry. Demon Meliodas stomped him while he was somewhat weakened.
So, I think a 2x multiplier (in line with their AP) is reasonable for Demon Mark Meliodas/Ash Hendrickson. That means they can lift over 300 million tonnes.
There's also a somewhat consistent calculation from Diane, who's in this overall band (but still >>> Ash Hendrickson) at this point.
Now, this is where it may start to get a little controversial.
As I mentioned before, Ban adds lifting strength to his own with Snatch. Ban is capable of absorbing the full power of Meliodas to his own, but the 2nd largest amount he's ever absorbed is the total strength of Orlondi (someone stronger than Gowther, who's only a few times weaker than Meliodas) and Diane. During his fight with Galand, Ban was stretched to his limit absorbing over half of Galand's physical strength + a few characters far weaker than him, and even then Galand wasn't that much weaker physically.
This makes Galand almost 2x stronger than the combined LS of Ban, Diane and Gowther at a minimum. Even excluding Gowther, Diane + Ban is 1.5x Meliodas, meaning Galand at full power has an LS of over 470 million tonnes.
So where does Escanor come into this?
Galand was able to lift Rhitta with one hand for a moment, before immediately dropping the axe and being unable to lift it back up again with both hands. Escanor then effortlessly picks it up from the same position with a single hand, and can casually do the same even at his weakest level of power while it's flying. So Dawn Escanor is casually way more than 2x stronger than Galand (~943 million tonnes). I think baseline Class T is reasonable.
It's also worth noting that Unsealed Meliodas was able to drag Rhitta with one arm using moderate effort. However, this shouldn't be 2x Galand like Escanor, since he wasn't lifting it off the ground. But, Demon Meliodas' entire physical strength alone is equal to the Escanor that fought Galand and 2nd Mark is a stacked multiplier on 1st Mark, so he should scale to over 1.885 billion tonnes.
Base Post Time-Skip Meliodas is >> Unsealed Demon Meliodas in all capabilities (he literally tore out Derieri's ribs and blitzed her), so Post-Time Skip 2nd Mark Meliodas is over 7.5 billion tonnes.
Our boys transformed Chandler and Cusack were far superior to this Demon Meliodas, and Original Demon is just Cusack + Chandler. So OG Demon scales to over 15 billion tonnes.
Base Post-Purgatory Meliodas is >> Original Demon, so 2nd Mark becomes over 60 billion tonnes.
It's also worth noting that DK Meliodas has a (comparatively pathetic) supporting feat that's almost Class T. This calculation wasn't accepted, but it was agreed that using the size of the mountain would be fine.
And then 100% Demon King is over 120 billion tonnes for scaling above Ban at half power.
Honestly, I don't even really care about this section. It's all just Class T regardless.
I planned to have all the feats accepted before I did this, but the best way is probably just to force it by making this thread.
King and Gloxinia LS
King should just have Below Average Human lifting strength; even with his strength on the verge of getting drained by Ban, he could casually toss his knight helmet.Gloxinia is > King, since he'd win in an arm wrestle.
Force to LS
At first I was kind of against this, but I've kind of come around to it. Plus, the profiles do it already.It's explained that Force is simply physical strength, while combat class as a whole represents genuine strength (combat ability). Additionally, people who are relatively close in terms in terms of Force have consistently matched each other in clashes, such as Gilthunder and Howzer, Mini Diane, Derieri and Meliodas, Wailo and Dreyfus, etc.
Guila, Howzer, Gilthunder, Hendrickson and co being able to clash with Meliodas when Ban can't at full power can mostly be explained by the fact that they had vastly superior weaponry (which unlocks greater amounts of physical strength, even without the qualities of a Sacred Treasure) prior to the Albion Arc.
So, Force really has every reason to scale to Lifting Strength.
There's probably going to be some characters that can enhance their strengths to certain levels, or demonstrably don't have LS comparable to similar characters in their AP range. However, I don't recall any such instances with characters who have confirmed Force.
However, Force shouldn't be treated as linear when it comes to LS. For example, Elaine shouldn't downscale from Hawk just because their Force is similar, she should just upscale from weaker characters. And it shouldn't be directly scaled to AP either.
The Scaling/New Calculations
Hawk, whose Force is 25, has a Class 5 feat while amped 8-fold, making him Class 1. I can't find any anti-feats, but Hawk probably has a lot due to being a gag character with highly inconsistent strength.- Deldry
- Vivian
- Merlin
- Mod
- Maybe Twigo.
- Holy Knights who excel in raw strength, like Ruin.
- Helbram (without Link)
Snatch/Escanor
It's going to become messy, so I'm separating this into a new section.Now let's start applying some multipliers.
Snatch absorbs physical abilities, with Ban (who's half as strong as Meliodas normally, and capable of causing him to struggle) explicitly sapping all of Meliodas' strength, speed and durability (since Galand was less durable when Ban stole his abilities), to the point where he couldn't move at all. It definitely affects lifting strength, and Ban even notes that his body feels lighter due to the increased power. In spite of that, Demon Meliodas was able to regenerate all of his power and crush Ban's amplified wrist.
Then we also have the fact that Hendrickson linearly augmented himself with the power of a Gray Demon, who are physically strong enough to overpower Hendrickson, Gilthunder and Howzer with weaponry. Demon Meliodas stomped him while he was somewhat weakened.
So, I think a 2x multiplier (in line with their AP) is reasonable for Demon Mark Meliodas/Ash Hendrickson. That means they can lift over 300 million tonnes.
There's also a somewhat consistent calculation from Diane, who's in this overall band (but still >>> Ash Hendrickson) at this point.
Now, this is where it may start to get a little controversial.
As I mentioned before, Ban adds lifting strength to his own with Snatch. Ban is capable of absorbing the full power of Meliodas to his own, but the 2nd largest amount he's ever absorbed is the total strength of Orlondi (someone stronger than Gowther, who's only a few times weaker than Meliodas) and Diane. During his fight with Galand, Ban was stretched to his limit absorbing over half of Galand's physical strength + a few characters far weaker than him, and even then Galand wasn't that much weaker physically.
This makes Galand almost 2x stronger than the combined LS of Ban, Diane and Gowther at a minimum. Even excluding Gowther, Diane + Ban is 1.5x Meliodas, meaning Galand at full power has an LS of over 470 million tonnes.
So where does Escanor come into this?
Galand was able to lift Rhitta with one hand for a moment, before immediately dropping the axe and being unable to lift it back up again with both hands. Escanor then effortlessly picks it up from the same position with a single hand, and can casually do the same even at his weakest level of power while it's flying. So Dawn Escanor is casually way more than 2x stronger than Galand (~943 million tonnes). I think baseline Class T is reasonable.
It's also worth noting that Unsealed Meliodas was able to drag Rhitta with one arm using moderate effort. However, this shouldn't be 2x Galand like Escanor, since he wasn't lifting it off the ground. But, Demon Meliodas' entire physical strength alone is equal to the Escanor that fought Galand and 2nd Mark is a stacked multiplier on 1st Mark, so he should scale to over 1.885 billion tonnes.
Higher Multipliers/Ratings
Imo, the only other multiplier that should apply here are Demon Marks, Original Demon and DK shelving half his power.Base Post Time-Skip Meliodas is >> Unsealed Demon Meliodas in all capabilities (he literally tore out Derieri's ribs and blitzed her), so Post-Time Skip 2nd Mark Meliodas is over 7.5 billion tonnes.
Our boys transformed Chandler and Cusack were far superior to this Demon Meliodas, and Original Demon is just Cusack + Chandler. So OG Demon scales to over 15 billion tonnes.
Base Post-Purgatory Meliodas is >> Original Demon, so 2nd Mark becomes over 60 billion tonnes.
It's also worth noting that DK Meliodas has a (comparatively pathetic) supporting feat that's almost Class T. This calculation wasn't accepted, but it was agreed that using the size of the mountain would be fine.
And then 100% Demon King is over 120 billion tonnes for scaling above Ban at half power.
Honestly, I don't even really care about this section. It's all just Class T regardless.
