Ninjago Tier 2 Downgrade

[Lloydblitzed]

I already did in the OP...

You only proved this grain and a dead Preeminent residing inside the Departed Realm "merged", cool

 

[Minaaaa]

Djinjago stated to be affected by the merge disproves the entire realm being destroyed (and the fact that arrakore went back to it)

 

[Arceus0x]

Ok I'll observe for now. If UES gets accepted then I'm fine with 2-C.
I will ask to provide evidence on how the dark matter spreads across realms.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

what? you do understand that figurative language exists? context is what makes these statments important, trying to remove them from the context to get a higher rating is just false. EVEN IF we were to take it super literally, it again, still wouldnt change anything as all feats relating to the balance are INDIRECT means equivalent to chain reaction feats.

No? I am not saying he scales due to destroying the Balance (although it should scale, because corrupting Elements of Creation was never meant to destroy it as we see in Season 2). I am saying that “destroy everything” was considered a BIGGER problem than all Realms being permanently in darkness. Which means he would literally destroy all of the Realms if he wanted.

You do know statements and things stated in the past can become outdated or changed right? Author statments (Or any statment for that matter) arent law and can change, which is why we dont believe the FSM creating the ninjago realm is valid anymore due to updated information. and please tell how doc's statment is vague? its the most blatent statments you can get. Do you literally want him to come out and say "yes djinjago was affected by the merge". His statment already does that well enough

So are you saying that retcon happened? Or that DR isn’t canon to previous shows? It is well-established that Djinjago was destroyed. Even in DR it is.
WoG statements do not apply if they aren’t supported in the show. Moreover, “Djinjago merged” could have been easily referring to that little piece of sand.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Can you prove that his abilities weren't also just using a chain reaction?

Lloyd and Harumi were afraid that Overlord was going to destroy “everything”. The reason it does not apply to Ninjago only is due to the fact that Harumi is actually fine with Overlord’s offer (regardless of whether it is his true intention or not) of destroying Balance and permanently setting all of the Realms into the darkness. Thus meaning that “destroy everything” > “all of Realms in Darkness”, so assuming that he is capable of destroying all of the Realms is fair given the narrative.

Basically: “Destroy everything” > destroy the Balance = put all of the Realms into the permanent darkness. Also visually FSM created all of his Realms at once.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Djinjago stated to be affected by the merge disproves the entire realm being destroyed

The grain was affected bc Arrakore was affected by the Merge. Just like how the Curse Realm was "affected" by the Merge even tho its DEAD. There's also countless statements saying Djinjago was obliderated

(and the fact that arrakore went back to it)

Went back to a void? Are you really saying returning to a empty space = the space-time wasn't destroyed?

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Djinjago stated to be affected by the merge disproves the entire realm being destroyed (and the fact that arrakore went back to it)

Literally current Djinjago is that grain of sand.

 

[Minaaaa]

So are you saying that retcon happened? Or that DR isn’t canon to previous shows? It is well-established that Djinjago was destroyed. Even in DR it is.

what?? what are you even arguing at this point? all i said was that statments can change. Theres already proof djinjago's space wasnt destroyed, saying "look djinjago was destroyed" doesnt support your position at all. Saying "theyre talking about the grain" is literally the biggest reach ever. Unless you find any actual evidence that its space was destroyed, the position stands.

No? I am not saying he scales due to destroying the Balance (although it should scale, because corrupting Elements of Creation was never meant to destroy it as we see in Season 2). I am saying that “destroy everything” was considered a BIGGER problem than all Realms being permanently in darkness. Which means he would literally destroy all of the Realms if he wanted.

Already addressed in the op.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

what?? what are you even arguing at this point? all i said was that statments can change. Theres already proof djinjago's space wasnt destroyed, saying "look djinjago was destroyed" doesnt support your position at all. Saying "theyre talking about the grain" is literally the biggest reach ever. Unless you find any actual evidence that its space was destroyed, the position stands.

You litterally said "Tommy statements are outdated" as well as telling me this is impossible:


Arrakore said everything was gone, its your burden to prove everything refers to the land

 

[Minaaaa]

Arrakore said everything was gone, its your burden to prove everything refers to the land

I did... in the original post.. whats the point of responding to a thread you havent read

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

what?? what are you even arguing at this point? all i said was that statments can change. Theres already proof djinjago's space wasnt destroyed, saying "look djinjago was destroyed" doesnt support your position at all. Saying "theyre talking about the grain" is literally the biggest reach ever. Unless you find any actual evidence that its space was destroyed, the position stands.

Season 5, 6, all statements regarding Djinnjago, DR, every single thing supports that Djinnjago was destroyed. Saying space-time wasn’t destroyed is a headcanon for the sake of sh*ting on the verse.

Already addressed in the op.

It isn’t.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

I did... in the original post.. whats the point of responding to a thread you havent read

You never proved but rather used your own interpretation of vague WoG statements that are never once supported in the show and that we already explained. Plain ignorance atp.

 

[Minaaaa]

Season 5, 6, all statements regarding Djinnjago, DR, every single thing supports that Djinnjago was destroyed. Saying space-time wasn’t destroyed is a headcanon for the sake of sh*ting on the verse.

You're literally saying djinjago's space was destroyed because djinjago was destroyed, do you not see how circular this is?

 

[Arceus0x]

You're literally saying djinjago's space was destroyed because djinjago was destroyed, do you not see how circular this is?

The universe's space was destroyed because the universe was destroyed. The bottle's glass was broken because the bottle was broken. What's illogical here again?

 

[Lloydblitzed]

I did... in the original post.. whats the point of responding to a thread you havent read

You didn't address it, rather make up a random interpretation with every counter arguments being somehow hyperboles. My previous arguments still stands

 

[Minaaaa]

The universe's space was destroyed because the universe was destroyed. The bottle's glass was broken because the bottle was broken. What's illogical here again?

Youd have a point if there was any evidence the universe was destroyed... which there isnt

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Youd have a point if there was any evidence the universe was destroyed... which there isnt

Which part of “Djinjago is no more” and “when one (Realm) falls down, so does another” you did not understand?

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Youd have a point if there was any evidence the universe was destroyed... which there isnt

Again, its stated Djinjago was obliderated. Djinjago is a Universe, its your burden to prove something else then the grain of sand was left of the Realm. Or u can just keep dodging every counter argument and say "Already adressed in the OP" when it wasn't. Also, Doc statements was made BEFORE the release of Part 2, and he's has shown multiple times on twitter he cannot spoil the season, further backing up my point

 

[Minaaaa]

Which part of “Djinjago is no more” and “when one (Realm) falls down, so does another” you did not understand?

One day you're gonna find out that fiction can exaggerate then you'll understand why this makes zero sense but even besides that, DR directly implies its space wasn't destroyed. If the merge affected universes and doc says djinjago was affected by the merge, then its universe wasnt destroyed and given the fact that literally every source says all 16 outside realms combined which yea, includes djinjago

 

[Lloydblitzed]

One day you're gonna find out that fiction can exaggerate then you'll understand why this makes zero sense but even besides that, DR directly implies its space wasn't destroyed. If the merge affected universes and doc says djinjago was affected by the merge, then its universe wasnt destroyed and given the fact that literally every source says all 16 outside realms combined which yea, includes djinjago

*Everything is a hyperbole when I decide its a hyperbole

 

[Arceus0x]

Yeah if one says that an entire Realm is no more and it is confirmed to be destroyed by the creators then it means that it is very much gone whether you like it or not. Sure, we would scrutinize it if we had a world where the best feat is tier 4, but here we have a verse where several top tiers scale to low multiverse level. An entire realm being gone isn't inconsistent and unless you have more proof that it wasn't destroyed that isn't just "its hyperbole" then I'll believe you.

doc says djinjago was affected by the merge, then its universe wasnt destroyed and given the fact that literally every source says all 16 outside realms combined which yea, includes djinjago

can you show me scans and such? Also, when was the statement made?

 

[Lloydblitzed]

then its universe wasnt destroyed and given the fact that literally every source says all 16 outside realms combined which yea, includes djinjago

1 of them is a grain of sand, the other is a dead Realm located inside the departed realm.

 

[Minaaaa]

can you show me scans and such? Also, when was the statement made?

and lloyds statement in the actual show

Lloyd (narrating): I learned whatever that chaos was, it resulted in the Merge. All Sixteen Realms coming together, expanding our world greatly.

 

[Arceus0x]

1 of them is a grain of sand, the other is a dead Realm located inside the departed realm.

i'd like to see how the grain of sand appeared or formed. If the universe was turned into a grain of sand then it is a feat that affects the entire space-time which is a Low 2-C feat. The second one I am not sure about.

 

[Arceus0x]

I'd like to just preface this with the fact that I am not trying to be biased here towards one point or another. I am neutral overall since I never actually watched the show beyond the first few seasons back in the day.

I am willing to believe either of you, just please give proper scans.

 

[Arceus0x]

and lloyds statement in the actual show

This does put into question what went down but if one of the realms got turned into a grain of sand it just means it got expanded by the merge or, you know, the grain of sand just fused with the other realms.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

One day you're gonna find out that fiction can exaggerate then you'll understand why this makes zero sense but even besides that, DR directly implies its space wasn't destroyed. If the merge affected universes and doc says djinjago was affected by the merge, then its universe wasnt destroyed and given the fact that literally every source says all 16 outside realms combined which yea, includes djinjago

All realms, but not non-existant ones.
DR never implies that, this is pure headcanon.
Death of author via this being contradicted by the show. I even explained why just land destruction does not make sense in-verse. And by your logic all of feats are hyperboles thus fiction caps at average human level.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

This does put into question what went down but if one of the realms got turned into a grain of sand it just means it got expanded by the merge or, you know, the grain of sand just fused with the other realms.

Grain of sand is inside of Arrakore's "amulet" and it began expanding just by a bit.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

I'd like to remind you there's 17 Realms in total, not 16. That means one is gone

This was made before we knew about the Grain of Sand + Doc has the No Spoiler policy

and lloyds statement in the actual show

He didn't say all 16 Realms parrallel to Ninjago

i'd like to see how the grain of sand appeared or formed.

All we know is that the grain of sand is all what's left of the Realm.

Nya: I thought Djinjago was destroyed.

Arrakore: It was. However, I was on a long quest in another realm when it happened. Upon my return, there was nothing left of my homeland, except this grain of sand. It is all that remains of the once great and noble Djinjago. Well, except me. (To Zanth.) And now you, Zanth. You must have been in another realm, like me. Djinjagan Dragons could always travel through other realms.

If the universe was turned into a grain of sand then it is a feat that affects the entire space-time which is a Low 2-C feat. The second one I am not sure about.

The Preeminent contains the Cursed Realm. When she died, she was moved inside the Departed Realm, so it only "Merged" bc the Departed Realm itself was merged

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

i'd like to see how the grain of sand appeared or formed. If the universe was turned into a grain of sand then it is a feat that affects the entire space-time which is a Low 2-C feat. The second one I am not sure about.

Okay basically look what happened:
The Preeminent, the guy inside of which is Cursed Realm, "died" due to Nya killing it with water (Preeminent's weakness is water. She is more resistant to it than other ghosts but not immune). Due to Preeminent technically being a living being, she gets into Departed Realm.
Djinnjago falls apart too due to Balance. But since it does not have a living being like Cursed Realm, it gets obliterated fully. Only grain of sand was left as revealed in DR.

 

[Arceus0x]

Ok, this all makes sense to me. If there are in fact 17 universes total and 16 got merged, this makes sense even further.

Also, I saw the pic of the Djinn sitting in a void with a grain sand. What is the context?

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

So basically what are we going to listen to:

Khadjikhan (King of Djinns who explained in detail the core of situation)
Arrakore (the guy who returned to the Realm and confirmed it was destroyed and nothing was left)
WoG who worked on the show (Tommy Andreasen)
Common sense and logic

or...

Interpretation of vague WoG statements which contradicts the in-show established canon?

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Also, I saw the pic of the Djinn sitting in a void with a grain sand. What is the context?

Its a visual representation of what happened when Arrakore came back to the Realm (bc he said there was nothing else except the grain)

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Also, I saw the pic of the Djinn sitting in a void with a grain sand. What is the context?

It is fan-made to explain to Mim what Arrakore meant, because it seemed like she did not understand that Arrakore could have returned to the void.

 

[Minaaaa]

Ok, this all makes sense to me. If there are in fact 17 universes total and 16 got merged, this makes sense even further.

its 16 outside of ninjago

 

[Lloydblitzed]

its 16 outside of ninjago

never said in any of your scans

 

[Minaaaa]

never said in any of your scans

16 outside of ninjago merged, ninjago was the epicenter of the merge

 

[Arceus0x]

Its a visual representation of what happened when Arrakore came back to the Realm (bc he said there was nothing else except the grain)

could you send it here for everyone to see? A video of it I mean.

So basically what are we going to listen to:

Khadjikhan (King of Djinns who explained in detail the core of situation)
Arrakore (the guy who returned to the Realm and confirmed it was destroyed and nothing was left)
WoG who worked on the show (Tommy Andreasen)
Common sense and logic

or...

Interpretation of vague WoG statements which contradicts the in-show established canon?

Yeah, additionally we put WOG from twitter questions and such to additional scrutiny most of the time, especially due to the thing called leading questions. Though this here isn't a leading question, it does seem to contradict what is actually shown. What is shown in the story itself is way more important that what is stated this one time by an author. Additionally you told me that the question was asked before the world was destroyed.

Overall, I definitely agree with your interpretation of the events at the moment.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

16 outside of ninjago merged, ninjago was the epicenter of the merge

Ninjago merged too. You are literally making a headcanon atp.

could you send it here for everyone to see? A video of it I mean.

It was not visualized, but it was stated. (He answers to the question: "I thought Djinnjago was destroyed". You can check in transcript)

Yeah, additionally we put WOG from twitter questions and such to additional scrutiny most of the time, especially due to the thing called leading questions. Though this here isn't a leading question, it does seem to contradict what is actually shown. What is shown in the story itself is way more important that what is stated this one time by an author. Additionally you told me that the question was asked before the world was destroyed.

Yeah, I explained somewhere on first page how these statements do not actually contradict, but she sticked with her own interpretation, so basically now I am saying that even if she is right, these statements would be dismissed via death of author due to contradiction with primary canon.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

its 16 outside of ninjago

"when the sixteen realms have suddently merged into one" No mention of outside. Same thing for the Magazine scan

Primary Sources > Secondary sources anyways. We know what happened to Djinjago and the Cursed Realm, and previous author statements hold either way

could you send it here for everyone to see? A video of it I mean.

Here