Ninjago Attack Potency update

[Lloydblitzed]

Thats not what im saying. Im saying all the weapons fused together and then got destroyed when they shot into space. The definition of destroy is to ruin the structure, organic existence, or condition of. Those weapons were into a completely different state when they were found in S3, so they were destroyed when they shot into space. The most likely flow of events is:

• GW fuse with MW, shoot into space, get destroyed as they make a star, land on the comet

« Only weapons of equal power could destroy the megaweapon ». It would make no sense that they « fused togheter » if the objective was to destroy the 4 other weapons. So the Star wasn't the result of 8 weapons, but only 4

 

[Minaaaa]

« Only weapons of equal power could destroy the megaweapon ». It would make no sense that they « fused togheter » if the objective was to destroy the 4 other weapons. So the Star wasn't the result of 8 weapons, but only 4

Im saying they fused together and were destroyed when they shot into space. Which given the show footage and the three statements is what happened. The statement you posted doesn't contradict the events I've laid out.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Im saying they fused together and were destroyed when they shot into space. Which given the show footage and the three statements is what happened. The statement you posted doesn't contradict the events I've laid out.

Ok, but since its the 4 from the past who destroyed the 4 from the present, this would still remain a 4-C feat from the GW and supported by the UES scans from earlier

 

[Minaaaa]

If they combined, then it wouldn't scale to the individual 4. Also going with that those weapons were destroyed when the star was created

 

[Lloydblitzed]

If they combined, then it wouldn't scale to the individual 4. Also going with that those weapons were destroyed when the star was created

they did not really combined, and only the mega weapon was destroyed. It only scale to the individual 4.

 

[Alus83]

so you have no counter to it being its own time-space? that thust makes it its own space-time. yea we should stop theoretical physics convo and get back to the main argument of low multi ninjago.

My counterarguments have already been posted messages ago. The only responses I have received are merely a repetition of the arguments I have disputed. So, I'm still not convinced by the L2C scaling arg.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

My counterarguments have already been posted messages ago. The only responses I have received are merely a repetition of the arguments I have disputed. So, I'm still not convinced by the L2C scaling arg.

ur arguments have no possible way of countering Low 2-C Ninjago Realms, The Ethereal Divide will endessly debunk whatever "single universe" arguments u try throwing, the author statement will also infinitly debunk your single timeline arguments, the show itself also states that the Never Realm's time works differently, its also shown when Nadakhan gets his crew back from the Realms they have been exiled too (and by comparing to the flashbacks, they have not aged in 200 Ninjago Realm years). So simple to understand (I swear to god if that other guy replies again by a "I agree" , Im gonna loose it).

Ask yourself this very simple question: if the realms are « physically connected », why does a structure seperate them. This would make absolutly 0 sense. Gateways are simply portals. Simple

 

[Minaaaa]

they did not really combined, and only the mega weapon was destroyed. It only scale to the individual 4.

Except we have three statements and narrative implications that they DID combine. So all those weapons combined and got destroyed as they were sent into space. This wouldnt scale the ninja to star because;

1. It was 8 weapons not 4
2. The weapons were destroyed as they went into space/created the star

 

[Minaaaa]

Also Garmadon in S3 LITERALLY IMPLIES they combined

Garmadon: I remember because I was there. You used the Golden Weapons to destroy my Mega Weapon. But when they collided, they were shot into...

Wu: Space.

Also

The ninja of the past sent the Mega Weapon hurtling into space using the power of the Four Golden Weapons.

So the MW was combined with the other weapons and shot into space, destroying them in the process.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Also Garmadon in S3 LITERALLY IMPLIES they combined

Also

So the MW was combined with the other weapons and shot into space, destroying them in the process.

All your scan legit supports that it still scales indivudual 4 GW lol. The 3 statements are either untrue (GW never created an asteroid) or contradicted by the show. The Star was caused by the GW destroying the 4 other weapons and guess what fell into the comet? Only the 4 GW, not the Mega Weapon. It was never the result of 8 Weapons. "Only Weapons of equal power can destroy the MW". U ain't debunking this feat no more

 

[Minaaaa]

All your scan legit supports that it still scales indivudual 4 GW lol. The 3 statements are either untrue (GW never created an asteroid) or contradicted by the show. The Star was caused by the GW destroying the 4 other weapons and guess what fell into the comet? Only the 4 GW, not the Mega Weapon. It was never the result of 8 Weapons. "Only Weapons of equal power can destroy the MW". U ain't debunking this feat no more

Dude the show itself literally shows they all combined

Also ALL those weapons were STILL destroyed

And they STILL wouldn't scale to it because those weapons arent as powerful since Zane absorbed them

The ninja aren't star for the simple reasons that:

• The weapons combined (Shown by the show itself and other statements)
• The weapons were destroyed in the process (This is like saying Zane scales to The Overlord even though he got destroyed)

You're arguing that the weapons didn't combine because of????? Ur arguing against something the show itself shows. The logical flow of events given everything is;

1. Ninja get the GW to destroy the MW
2. GW and MW combine
3. The Weapons shoot into space and get destroyed in the process, creating a star.
4. The weapons land on Delta V

This is the most consistent explanation of what actually happened. Even scans YOU shown prove this;

Then it got destroyed

Plus this scan here proves my point even further

All the evidence i've provided shows they GW and MW combined and got destroyed. Tommy says all the weapons were destroyed, the show shows they were all destroyed and the official lego site says they were destroyed. You've given no evidence or scans to prove your point other than "nuh uh". EVEN IF, you still want to say "It was only the 4 weapons not the 8", They were still destroyed in the process.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Dude the show itself literally shows they all combined

Also ALL those weapons were STILL destroyed

And they STILL wouldn't scale to it because those weapons arent as powerful since Zane absorbed them

The ninja aren't star for the simple reasons that:

• The weapons combined (Shown by the show itself and other statements)
• The weapons were destroyed in the process (This is like saying Zane scales to The Overlord even though he got destroyed)

You're arguing that the weapons didn't combine because of????? Ur arguing against something the show itself shows. The logical flow of events given everything is;

1. Ninja get the GW to destroy the MW
2. GW and MW combine
3. The Weapons shoot into space and get destroyed in the process, creating a star.
4. The weapons land on Delta V

This is the most consistent explanation of what actually happened. Even scans YOU shown prove this;

Plus this scan here proves my point even further

All the evidence i've provided shows they GW and MW combined and got destroyed. Tommy says all the weapons were destroyed, the show shows they were all destroyed and the official lego site says they were destroyed. You've given no evidence or scans to prove your point other than "nuh uh". EVEN IF, you still want to say "It was only the 4 weapons not the 8", They were still destroyed in the process.

Bro is still trying ?
The 2nd Tommy statement alone destroys all of your arguments
Destroyed weapons, ye then how was the construction of the Golden Armor possible?

The Weapons got depowered after the events of S3 (indicating they were stronger before S10), irrelevant argument

Lmao that indicates that the Star is the mega weapon, and since we saw the GW in the comet, this means only 4 Weapons created the star

If the MW wasn't destroyed by the other 4 Weapons, the time paradox would have not been solved
Both the MW and the GW have equal power, and since the MW made Star, so can the GW

Nuh uh

 

[Lloydblitzed]

In case u still don't accept my proofs from earlier (or think its not enough), here's why the weapons would qualify for UES:

Limited Energy System
The Golden Weapons would fit this critera, as they channel the main 4 elemental powers (proof the book is canon btw). Elemental Powers are used by multiple elemental master, including those of the main 4 elements (Kai, Cole, Jay and Zane, the elemental masters of Fire, Earth, Lightning and Ice). There are obviously multiple varients of elemental powers, and Elemental Powers can use a similar amount of power with any given technique (like with the Sword of Fire being able to harm Jay in a similar way with both fireballs and with a wall of flame)

Non-Physical Energy System
Elemental powers in general have shown that all their non physical powers scale to each other in Attack Potency (which would apply to the Golden Weapons too, as they use the same system). It was also shown that when they display an increase in energy/power, the potency of their powers and abilities increase as well, like when Lloyd got supercharged by the Matriach Dragon, increasing his power level and allowing him to deal more damage or when Garmadon drinked Moon Tea, restoring his powers and even making him stronger.

Universal Energy System
Elemental Powers have shown to display an increase in power / energy should correspond to a proportional increase in the potency of their physical statistics, like when Cole entered his Spinjitzu Burst Form, allowing him to easly knock over the Skull Sorcerer which he couldn't do in base form (he also clearly show he can channel his elemental power throught his own body). Elemental power was also shown to be channeled through the user's body, like when the ninjas use their True Potential, which also boost their physical stats

As we know earlier, The Golden Weapons use the Elemental Power System, meaning they do have some type of UES, and the Star feat can be scaled to them

So would the feat be valid now that I have proven the Golden Weapons have a UES @Qawsedf234 ?

Edit: Sorry for the ping (also realised I asked u the same question earlier)

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Dude the show itself literally shows they all combined

Also ALL those weapons were STILL destroyed

And they STILL wouldn't scale to it because those weapons arent as powerful since Zane absorbed them

The ninja aren't star for the simple reasons that:

• The weapons combined (Shown by the show itself and other statements)
• The weapons were destroyed in the process (This is like saying Zane scales to The Overlord even though he got destroyed)

You're arguing that the weapons didn't combine because of????? Ur arguing against something the show itself shows. The logical flow of events given everything is;

1. Ninja get the GW to destroy the MW
2. GW and MW combine
3. The Weapons shoot into space and get destroyed in the process, creating a star.
4. The weapons land on Delta V

This is the most consistent explanation of what actually happened. Even scans YOU shown prove this;

Plus this scan here proves my point even further

All the evidence i've provided shows they GW and MW combined and got destroyed. Tommy says all the weapons were destroyed, the show shows they were all destroyed and the official lego site says they were destroyed. You've given no evidence or scans to prove your point other than "nuh uh". EVEN IF, you still want to say "It was only the 4 weapons not the 8", They were still destroyed in the process.

1 photo proves that destruction = it is a star

2-3 photos proves that destruction was BEFORE colliding and being sent to space

So star was before colliding
You are very free to cope amigos

 

[Minaaaa]

1 photo proves that destruction = it is a star

2-3 photos proves that destruction was BEFORE colliding and being sent to space

So star was before colliding
You are very free to cope amigos

This is just....not what Garmadon is saying (this is my fault for not showing the full thing)

He's saying that he remembers that the ninja used the GW to destroy the MW

And when the weapons collided/fused, they shot into space. So again i will lay out a timeline of events:

1. GW fuse with the MW
2. The energy caused by their merge/collision propels all the weapons into space
3. The weapons launch into space, explode, create as star and destroying the weapons in the process
4. The weapons form into a golden blob and fall onto the comet

"But the weapons, weren't destroyed"
As i have shown above in previous posts, they WERE destroyed given statements outside and inside the narrative. They were in a completely different state and unusable as weapons in the blob state and no longer exist in their weapon state, hence making them destroyed.
"But the weapons never fused/combined"
Statements from Tommy, and the show itself all but confirms that all the weapons combined into one. You literally have to prove they didn't. given the evidence.
This is the most consistent, reasonable, and logical explanation of what happened. If you cannot provide a more reasonable and logical explanation of what happened that aligns with the internal consistency of the show, then this argument holds no weight.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

This is just....not what Garmadon is saying (this is my fault for not showing the full thing)

He's saying that he remembers that the ninja used the GW to destroy the MW

And when the weapons collided/fused, they shot into space. So again i will lay out a timeline of events:

1. GW fuse with the MW
2. The energy caused by their merge/collision propels all the weapons into space
3. The weapons launch into space, explode, create as star and destroying the weapons in the process
4. The weapons form into a golden blob and fall onto the comet

"But the weapons, weren't destroyed"
As i have shown above in previous posts, they WERE destroyed given statements outside and inside the narrative. They were in a completely different state and unusable as weapons in the blob state and no longer exist in their weapon state, hence making them destroyed.
"But the weapons never fused/combined"
Statements from Tommy, and the show itself all but confirms that all the weapons combined into one. You literally have to prove they didn't. given the evidence.
This is the most consistent, reasonable, and logical explanation of what happened. If you cannot provide a more reasonable and logical explanation of what happened that aligns with the internal consistency of the show, then this argument holds no weight.

If all the weapons were destroyed, why could Overlord extract and use them? This alone debunks all possible arguments against Star level 4 GW, bc if the 8 weapons were destroyed, their power would not kill the Nindroid, and Overlord wouldn't be able to use the GWs. Even in their blob form, they are deadly, so they aren't destroyed lmao

 

[Minaaaa]

If all the weapons were destroyed, why could Overlord extract and use them? This alone debunks all possible arguments against Star level 4 GW, bc if the 8 weapons were destroyed, their power would not kill the Nindroid, and Overlord wouldn't be able to use the GWs. Even in their blob form, they are deadly, so they aren't destroyed lmao

Dude what? Youre conflating destruction and existence erasure, those arent the same thing. You can destroy something and not erase it. Those weapons were completely different than the state they were previously in, unable to be used as weapons. They were destroyed, the show and scans even say this.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Dude what? Youre conflating destruction and existence erasure, those arent the same thing. You can destroy something and not erase it. Those weapons were completely different than the state they were previously in, unable to be used as weapons. They were destroyed, the show and scans even say this.

Unable to be used as weapons yet still has the same propreties as before the explosion + can still be reshaped into weapons? Ye no, all ur scans are just agreeing against you. If the GWs were truly destroyed, they would vanish just like in S16

 

[LifeRiderthe1]

My counterarguments have already been posted messages ago. The only responses I have received are merely a repetition of the arguments I have disputed. So, I'm still not convinced by the L2C scaling arg.

well i mean it doesn't matter if your convinced or not. the realms being a time-space auto makes them 4D anyways. And FSM makes said realms which was already on FSM profile to begin with. I assume you are talking about the ninja which is fine but you have to acknowledge the source dragons are blatantly or well seemingly portrayed as being stronger then FSM which also gives them Low multi scaling as well. You can't just claim its 3D and walk away. Time-spaces are natively in fact 4D. and we have also different time flows to.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

In case u still don't accept my proofs from earlier (or think its not enough), here's why the weapons would qualify for UES:

Limited Energy System
The Golden Weapons would fit this critera, as they channel the main 4 elemental powers (proof the book is canon btw). Elemental Powers are used by multiple elemental master, including those of the main 4 elements (Kai, Cole, Jay and Zane, the elemental masters of Fire, Earth, Lightning and Ice). There are obviously multiple varients of elemental powers, and Elemental Powers can use a similar amount of power with any given technique (like with the Sword of Fire being able to harm Jay in a similar way with both fireballs and with a wall of flame)

Non-Physical Energy System
Elemental powers in general have shown that all their non physical powers scale to each other in Attack Potency (which would apply to the Golden Weapons too, as they use the same system). It was also shown that when they display an increase in energy/power, the potency of their powers and abilities increase as well, like when Lloyd got supercharged by the Matriach Dragon, increasing his power level and allowing him to deal more damage or when Garmadon drinked Moon Tea, restoring his powers and even making him stronger.

Universal Energy System
Elemental Powers have shown to display an increase in power / energy should correspond to a proportional increase in the potency of their physical statistics, like when Cole entered his Spinjitzu Burst Form, allowing him to easly knock over the Skull Sorcerer which he couldn't do in base form (he also clearly show he can channel his elemental power throught his own body). Elemental power was also shown to be channeled through the user's body, like when the ninjas use their True Potential, which also boost their physical stats

As we know earlier, The Golden Weapons use the Elemental Power System, meaning they do have some type of UES, and the Star feat can be scaled to them

Bump @GarrixianXD

 

[GarrixianXD]

In case u still don't accept my proofs from earlier (or think its not enough), here's why the weapons would qualify for UES:

Limited Energy System
The Golden Weapons would fit this critera, as they channel the main 4 elemental powers (proof the book is canon btw). Elemental Powers are used by multiple elemental master, including those of the main 4 elements (Kai, Cole, Jay and Zane, the elemental masters of Fire, Earth, Lightning and Ice). There are obviously multiple varients of elemental powers, and Elemental Powers can use a similar amount of power with any given technique (like with the Sword of Fire being able to harm Jay in a similar way with both fireballs and with a wall of flame)

Non-Physical Energy System
Elemental powers in general have shown that all their non physical powers scale to each other in Attack Potency (which would apply to the Golden Weapons too, as they use the same system). It was also shown that when they display an increase in energy/power, the potency of their powers and abilities increase as well, like when Lloyd got supercharged by the Matriach Dragon, increasing his power level and allowing him to deal more damage or when Garmadon drinked Moon Tea, restoring his powers and even making him stronger.

Universal Energy System
Elemental Powers have shown to display an increase in power / energy should correspond to a proportional increase in the potency of their physical statistics, like when Cole entered his Spinjitzu Burst Form, allowing him to easly knock over the Skull Sorcerer which he couldn't do in base form (he also clearly show he can channel his elemental power throught his own body). Elemental power was also shown to be channeled through the user's body, like when the ninjas use their True Potential, which also boost their physical stats

As we know earlier, The Golden Weapons use the Elemental Power System, meaning they do have some type of UES, and the Star feat can be scaled to them

Seems reasonable enough.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Seems reasonable enough.

So can we apply what was discussed in the CRT (except for the Low 1-C Source Dragon cuz 2-C Source Dragon was accepted instead) ?

 

[GarrixianXD]

Crab disagreed with this. Unsure what’s Qaws alignment but iirc he agreed with tier 2 but disagreed with tier 4. So no, this is not fine to be applied.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Crab disagreed with this. Unsure what’s Qaws alignment but iirc he agreed with tier 2 but disagreed with tier 4. So no, this is not fine to be applied.

Welp ig we'll have to wait after @Qawsedf234 then

 

[Starbrand_Fan]

BTW, I guess I should’ve said this earlier but I’m neutral on 4-C Ninja and Low 1-C source dragon but agree with everything else

 

[MKF4]

Disagree with the star level base tier arguments, at least in early show. The shockwave provided is quite clearly a gag feat. Just a few minutes prior, Samukai, a foe clearly superior to the ninja at this time, was killed by their combined power, and Lord Garmadon himself confirmed even he could not handle all their power. It would be beyond inconsistent for the ninja to be superior to Garmadon, especially at this point, and the weapons are clearly not expelling all their power into that measly little shockwave. Massively inconsistent with established story and much easier to explain as simply not the full power of the weapons hitting them there, as the full power of the weapons would kill them on the spot like it did to Samukai or would have to Garmadon.
Garmadon and Wu confirming nobody can handle all their power at the time and Samukai going badda boom
I actually do agree with Golden Power Lloyd scaling to the weapons, so no argument there, though the others don't scale to him. Rebooted makes it crystal clear that at this point only the Overlord can survive the weapons as they are now, and everyone who touches them dies. That random Nindroid, those weird bugs, and even in the finale, Zane. Yes, he didn't immediately die, but he was expelling as much excess energy as possible to stall the inevitable and still went up like a roman candle in the end. This also shuts down the idea that the ninja would scale after Lloyd gave them powers, as Zane quite literally got killed by the weapons after getting that buff. None of the base tier ninjas scale at this time.
Following Rebooted there aren't any Golden Weapon level threats barring the Preeminent, which nobody scales to at this time as they won via the biggest weak spot abuse of all time and a massively lucky one-off power boost from Nya.
Nadakhan's feat of lifting and sustaining his new "Djinnjago" could likely be calced and used for base tier scaling though, I could see that getting above their current town level and being solid scaling. Would need to get a number on it first of course.
Time Twins don't have much of anything outside of cool hax.
Season 8 is where you might be able to open the door on this scaling, hypothetically. I'm not sold yet but willing to hear your case on it, though Lloyd kinda got rocked by Garmadon in their duel. But I'd like to hear your case there.
If you do have something for Season 8 onward, I would suggest splitting ninja and base tier stuff into keys. Seasons 1-7 base tiers likely go to whatever Nadakhan gets off of the Djinnjago feat, and if you can pull off 4-C on Season 8 onwards that should get its own key. And so on from there, we already have era based keys for characters like Sonic anyway.
That said, this is my only major disagreement is with 4-C and you might be able to sell me on an era based key system. Agree with the Universal+ arguments and think Jay should also scale as there's no reason the others are suddenly above him now. Neutral on Low 1-C Source Dragon, will need to look it over later when I have time.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Disagree with the star level base tier arguments, at least in early show. The shockwave provided is quite clearly a gag feat. Just a few minutes prior, Samukai, a foe clearly superior to the ninja at this time, was killed by their combined power, and Lord Garmadon himself confirmed even he could not handle all their power. It would be beyond inconsistent for the ninja to be superior to Garmadon, especially at this point, and the weapons are clearly not expelling all their power into that measly little shockwave. Massively inconsistent with established story and much easier to explain as simply not the full power of the weapons hitting them there, as the full power of the weapons would kill them on the spot like it did to Samukai or would have to Garmadon.
Garmadon and Wu confirming nobody can handle all their power at the time and Samukai going badda boom
I actually do agree with Golden Power Lloyd scaling to the weapons, so no argument there, though the others don't scale to him. Rebooted makes it crystal clear that at this point only the Overlord can survive the weapons as they are now, and everyone who touches them dies. That random Nindroid, those weird bugs, and even in the finale, Zane. Yes, he didn't immediately die, but he was expelling as much excess energy as possible to stall the inevitable and still went up like a roman candle in the end. This also shuts down the idea that the ninja would scale after Lloyd gave them powers, as Zane quite literally got killed by the weapons after getting that buff. None of the base tier ninjas scale at this time.
Following Rebooted there aren't any Golden Weapon level threats barring the Preeminent, which nobody scales to at this time as they won via the biggest weak spot abuse of all time and a massively lucky one-off power boost from Nya.
Nadakhan's feat of lifting and sustaining his new "Djinnjago" could likely be calced and used for base tier scaling though, I could see that getting above their current town level and being solid scaling. Would need to get a number on it first of course.
Time Twins don't have much of anything outside of cool hax.
Season 8 is where you might be able to open the door on this scaling, hypothetically. I'm not sold yet but willing to hear your case on it, though Lloyd kinda got rocked by Garmadon in their duel. But I'd like to hear your case there.
If you do have something for Season 8 onward, I would suggest splitting ninja and base tier stuff into keys. Seasons 1-7 base tiers likely go to whatever Nadakhan gets off of the Djinnjago feat, and if you can pull off 4-C on Season 8 onwards that should get its own key. And so on from there, we already have era based keys for characters like Sonic anyway.
That said, this is my only major disagreement is with 4-C and you might be able to sell me on an era based key system. Agree with the Universal+ arguments and think Jay should also scale as there's no reason the others are suddenly above him now. Neutral on Low 1-C Source Dragon, will need to look it over later when I have time.

Firstly, Garmadon legit said he could wield all 4 Golden Weapons after his journey to the Realm of Madness (which he did countless time in the show) and Wu should be comparable to Garmadon at that point. Tho as said in the in the first message, you could get the post Season 8 Ninjas to Star Level via Griefbringer and Kalmaar

 

[MKF4]

Firstly, Garmadon legit said he could wield all 4 Golden Weapons after his journey to the Realm of Madness (which he did countless time in the show) and Wu should be comparable to Garmadon at that point. Tho as said in the in the first message, you could get the post Season 8 Ninjas to Star Level via Griefbringer and Kalmaar

I do agree Garmadon as of Once Bitten Twice Shy should likely scale, provided he has the Golden Weapons on hand of course, which seems reasonable enough to give him. He pretty solidly dominated Wu and wins pretty much all straight 1v1 fights against others in the early show period though, and he alone is the only one capable of destroying the Great Devourer. Worth noting is that a major reason is that only he can do it because as he himself stated, only he could wield the weapons without going kablooey, others wouldn't scale at this time. (Golden Power Lloyd is the exception for obvious reasons)

That said the Season 8 (maybe 9 or 10) key is probably the best course of action, I could see the ninjas being comparable to earlier show Garmadon by that point. My pitch would be a pilot-Season 7 key using the Nadakhan feat, Season 8 off of your pitched scaling, and then a Dragons Rising key. Garmadon and Lloyd will need slightly different keys for the 4-arms form and also Golden Power for Lloyd, but generally still the same format. Overall I think this key system is consistent enough with the show that I would be willing to vote in agreement for that, albeit the 4-C buff be specifically post Season 8.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

I do agree Garmadon as of Once Bitten Twice Shy should likely scale, provided he has the Golden Weapons on hand of course, which seems reasonable enough to give him. He pretty solidly dominated Wu and wins pretty much all straight 1v1 fights against others in the early show period though, and he alone is the only one capable of destroying the Great Devourer. Worth noting is that a major reason is that only he can do it because as he himself stated, only he could wield the weapons without going kablooey, others wouldn't scale at this time. (Golden Power Lloyd is the exception for obvious reasons)

That said the Season 8 (maybe 9 or 10) key is probably the best course of action, I could see the ninjas being comparable to earlier show Garmadon by that point. My pitch would be a pilot-Season 7 key using the Nadakhan feat, Season 8 off of your pitched scaling, and then a Dragons Rising key. Garmadon and Lloyd will need slightly different keys for the 4-arms form and also Golden Power for Lloyd, but generally still the same format. Overall I think this key system is consistent enough with the show that I would be willing to vote in agreement for that, albeit the 4-C buff be specifically post Season 8.

tho you could still get S7 Ninjas to Star via them tanking a blow from a full blasts from Lloyd, Kai and Jay, and Lloyd already scale to the weapons by then

 

[Starbrand_Fan]

Yeah, I’m honestly with MK on this one

 

[MKF4]

So looking over things and checking the Season 7 feat, I'm not entirely convinced on that one, the Time Blade does seem to cause the unstable explosion and not much proves Lloyd is at that level yet. You could maybe argue the key go Season 7 and on to Dragons Rising, though I think Season 8 is going to be much easier to argue, especially coinciding with the soft design reboot and whatnot. Would only be a season's difference anyway so not a very significant issue whatsoever.

Looking over some other things, I do solidly agree on Source Dragons being above FSM, that is very clear-cut and solid. I'm no expert on Low 1-C requirements but the 2-C argument is quite blatant. I would go with a 2-C and "maybe Low 1-C" on that, I lack the ability to effectively give a solid answer on that. The argument itself is solid enough if the Ethereal Divide does qualify as a Low 1-C item. For now, I'll go neutral on the Low 1-C Source Dragon, completely agree with 2-C at least though, there is no reason they shouldn't be that high.

Continent level Scythe of Quakes is interesting and consistent with the FSM creating Ninjago, though I would note some could argue that he just used the Scythe to specifically make that part in conjunction with the full creation feat. The Nadakhan feat is much easier to go with, I think the island level "maybe continental" is your best bet for the pilot-Season 7 key.

Comic Garmadon scaling seems fine, not a fan of multiplier scaling but your argument is logical, and I can see Garmadon being that high anyway.

And of course I agree with the universal+ stuff already, that's good to go. I vote in favor of the upgrades, using 3 different keys for each period.
Pilot-Season 7 (mountain-island [depending on where the Nadakhan feat gets] maybe continental [Scythe of Quakes])
Season 8-Crystallized (Star level)
Rise of Dragons (Universal+)
I also vote in agreement for the new pages, especially Source Dragons.

 

[Starbrand_Fan]

I concur with MK

 

[Lloydblitzed]

So looking over things and checking the Season 7 feat, I'm not entirely convinced on that one, the Time Blade does seem to cause the unstable explosion and not much proves Lloyd is at that level yet. You could maybe argue the key go Season 7 and on to Dragons Rising, though I think Season 8 is going to be much easier to argue, especially coinciding with the soft design reboot and whatnot. Would only be a season's difference anyway so not a very significant issue whatsoever.

Looking over some other things, I do solidly agree on Source Dragons being above FSM, that is very clear-cut and solid. I'm no expert on Low 1-C requirements but the 2-C argument is quite blatant. I would go with a 2-C and "maybe Low 1-C" on that, I lack the ability to effectively give a solid answer on that. The argument itself is solid enough if the Ethereal Divide does qualify as a Low 1-C item. For now, I'll go neutral on the Low 1-C Source Dragon, completely agree with 2-C at least though, there is no reason they shouldn't be that high.

Continent level Scythe of Quakes is interesting and consistent with the FSM creating Ninjago, though I would note some could argue that he just used the Scythe to specifically make that part in conjunction with the full creation feat. The Nadakhan feat is much easier to go with, I think the island level "maybe continental" is your best bet for the pilot-Season 7 key.

Comic Garmadon scaling seems fine, not a fan of multiplier scaling but your argument is logical, and I can see Garmadon being that high anyway.

And of course I agree with the universal+ stuff already, that's good to go. I vote in favor of the upgrades, using 3 different keys for each period.
Pilot-Season 7 (mountain-island [depending on where the Nadakhan feat gets] maybe continental [Scythe of Quakes])
Season 8-Crystallized (Star level)
Rise of Dragons (Universal+)
I also vote in agreement for the new pages, especially Source Dragons.

Lloyd has the powers of the 4 Golden Weapons, and he only loosed his Golden Power back in Rebooted, so u can still scale him to Star after S3 or in S7

 

[MKF4]

Lloyd has the powers of the 4 Golden Weapons, and he only loosed his Golden Power back in Rebooted, so u can still scale him to Star after S3 or in S7

You can maybe use that to argue for the Season 7 getting the second key instead of 8, though the latter is likely still the stronger case. The Golden Weapons are what gave the Overlord his full power again after Lloyd got rid of his Golden Power though, so I'm not quite sure Lloyd still possesses their full strength. He might still possess some level of their elements but not the full raw might the Weapons themselves have, given the Overlord outright abandoned going after Lloyd in favor of the Weapons in Rebooted. It's likely just safer to go with the Season 8 key for now.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

You can maybe use that to argue for the Season 7 getting the second key instead of 8, though the latter is likely still the stronger case. The Golden Weapons are what gave the Overlord his full power again after Lloyd got rid of his Golden Power though, so I'm not quite sure Lloyd still possesses their full strength. He might still possess some level of their elements but not the full raw might the Weapons themselves have, given the Overlord outright abandoned going after Lloyd in favor of the Weapons in Rebooted. It's likely just safer to go with the Season 8 key for now.

Problem is that with Overlord case, he had 90% of USM powers and the Golden Weapons as well to restore his full power, so we can safely scale it to Lloyd

 

[MKF4]

Also going to note with me and Star both voting in favor, the Universal+ upgrades hit 7 votes, which is enough for Grace on that upgrade if memory serves. Base buffs might also be eligible as well, though how they get implemented seems to be still in discussion on how the keys get used.

 

[SeijiSetto]

Also going to note with me and Star both voting in favor, the Universal+ upgrades hit 7 votes, which is enough for Grace on that upgrade if memory serves. Base buffs might also be eligible as well, though how they get implemented seems to be still in discussion on how the keys get used.

CRTs don't work like that, you need evaluating staff agreements (i.e thread mods [red] or admins [green]) to get it to pass. Regular user votes don't do anything, the "7 for grace" you're thinking of is for vs threads.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

CRTs don't work like that, you need evaluating staff agreements (i.e thread mods [red] or admins [green]) to get it to pass. Regular user votes don't do anything, the "7 for grace" you're thinking of is for vs threads.

Welp here we go for weeks of waiting after Qawsef or another admin approval (again)

 

[MKF4]

CRTs don't work like that, you need evaluating staff agreements (i.e thread mods [red] or admins [green]) to get it to pass. Regular user votes don't do anything, the "7 for grace" you're thinking of is for vs threads.

Fair enough. I suppose that puts us at an impasse for now until one of them comes along and evaluates it all. I suppose I've made my stance and suggestions on where things scale clear, so for now I'll likely just watch and wait. Been pretty fun, though.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

In case u still don't accept my proofs from earlier (or think its not enough), here's why the weapons would qualify for UES:

Limited Energy System
The Golden Weapons would fit this critera, as they channel the main 4 elemental powers (proof the book is canon btw). Elemental Powers are used by multiple elemental master, including those of the main 4 elements (Kai, Cole, Jay and Zane, the elemental masters of Fire, Earth, Lightning and Ice). There are obviously multiple varients of elemental powers, and Elemental Powers can use a similar amount of power with any given technique (like with the Sword of Fire being able to harm Jay in a similar way with both fireballs and with a wall of flame)

Non-Physical Energy System
Elemental powers in general have shown that all their non physical powers scale to each other in Attack Potency (which would apply to the Golden Weapons too, as they use the same system). It was also shown that when they display an increase in energy/power, the potency of their powers and abilities increase as well, like when Lloyd got supercharged by the Matriach Dragon, increasing his power level and allowing him to deal more damage or when Garmadon drinked Moon Tea, restoring his powers and even making him stronger.

Universal Energy System
Elemental Powers have shown to display an increase in power / energy should correspond to a proportional increase in the potency of their physical statistics, like when Cole entered his Spinjitzu Burst Form, allowing him to easly knock over the Skull Sorcerer which he couldn't do in base form (he also clearly show he can channel his elemental power throught his own body). Elemental power was also shown to be channeled through the user's body, like when the ninjas use their True Potential, which also boost their physical stats

As we know earlier, The Golden Weapons use the Elemental Power System, meaning they do have some type of UES, and the Star feat can be scaled to them

Looks alright to me too