NiGHTS into Dreams 2-B upgrade/key split/profile rework and overhaul

[Mephistus]

I decided to go ahead and rework NiGHTS page as it has been untouched up for a long time and because the amount of mini-CRT's to get it up to my standard would be a pain with my current schedule and instead propose a complete overhaul.

Tell me what you guys think of the current profile compared to my proposed updated profile.

Should any of the parts be separated as blogs, is it too wordy and could certain parts be clarified better, what you think isn't correct, etc.

Profiles for Wizeman, Bomamba, Jackle, etc. are planned to be made in the future to help for powerscaling and resistance explanations to be shortened and to eventually make a proper verse page.

The gallery could also use more of their notable transformations beyond what is listed for their potential transformations, but the NiD wiki has some good renders and images to add eventually.

au revoir

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

AP, striking strength, and durability are listed as Low Multiversal in his Base key when they should be Universal+, otherwise it’s a major improvement over the current profile.

 

[Mephistus]

AP, striking strength, and durability are listed as Low Multiversal in his Base key when they should be Universal+, otherwise it’s a major improvement over the current profile.

Fixed accordingly, thank you!

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

So far this is looking like a good start, I was hoping to see a Nights into Dreams revision to at least fix the now dead links.

As Shadow pointed out, the tier is only Low 2-C which would only be Universe level+. Low Multiversal would be 2-C. Not yet judging which one is more accurate into I look more detail in the justifications but it should line up.

Also, the lifting strength calculation should be moved to a VSBW blog post and have a calc group member evaluate it.

There is also quite a bit of text in the Powers and Abilities section to the point where I think finding tabbers to separate might be a good idea.

But at least, it's looking like a good start and otherwise neutral regarding the solid 2-B upgrade, but might be persuaded towards agreeing.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

“

"Nightmare" (NIGHTMARE) A dark and terrifying world created by Wizeman and other creatures above the second level. 　It is a world created by Wizeman in order to annihilate Nightopia and to drive our "consciousness" out of the dream world. Therefore, the world of Nightmare is the most disgusting world that reflects our "consciousness". 　For example, for those who have a strong dependence on their fathers, it creates a fierce mountain range, and for those who have too much of their mothers, it creates a raging stormy sea to stir up their fears. Thus, the inhabitants of the Nightmare world that scare us are the Nightmarens. 　Dreams of falling down to the ground, of being chased by someone, of losing oneself or one's relatives.... These are all created by the Nightmarens. 　However, the nightmares they create are not all bad. Because it is only when you face these adversities with courage that you will find your true, grown-up self..."

This translation caught my eye and I noticed this doesn’t give me a impression of 2B necessarily.
Do you have any more info to give? At the very least, I can see Low 2C or higher coming from this, but 2B isn’t supported currently.

 

[Dragonite007]

Bump

 

[ElixirBlue]

Looks good to me.

“

"Nightmare" (NIGHTMARE) A dark and terrifying world created by Wizeman and other creatures above the second level. 　It is a world created by Wizeman in order to annihilate Nightopia and to drive our "consciousness" out of the dream world. Therefore, the world of Nightmare is the most disgusting world that reflects our "consciousness". 　For example, for those who have a strong dependence on their fathers, it creates a fierce mountain range, and for those who have too much of their mothers, it creates a raging stormy sea to stir up their fears. Thus, the inhabitants of the Nightmare world that scare us are the Nightmarens. 　Dreams of falling down to the ground, of being chased by someone, of losing oneself or one's relatives.... These are all created by the Nightmarens. 　However, the nightmares they create are not all bad. Because it is only when you face these adversities with courage that you will find your true, grown-up self..."

This translation caught my eye and I noticed this doesn’t give me a impression of 2B necessarily.
Do you have any more info to give? At the very least, I can see Low 2C or higher coming from this, but 2B isn’t supported currently.

Each world is a universe, which is why base NiGHTS is Low 2-C. Wizeman can destroy Nightopia, a world that contains many worlds.

 

[Mephistus]

Looks good to me.


Each world is a universe, which is why base NiGHTS is Low 2-C. Wizeman can destroy Nightopia, a world that contains many worlds.

Ah, I just used the Nightmare busting statement, since it's stated by him in his following monologuing lines that he can "easily" destroy it / everything he has created as he considers Nightmare itself as his responsibility for creating it when it didn't exist, and not just a fraction of Nightmare's dream worlds, with it having to have as many dreams worlds as people experience nightmares, and we'd be talking about the number of humans that have existed that had the ability the dream since dated history for this parallel universe. So ~107 billion people in existence lived on Earth; even being conservative and factoring for a single dream world allocated per person and not multiple ones made per night, that would easily factor into 2-B tier logically assuming no extremely, extremely long timeframe, since the task is not treated as arduous for him.

“

"Nightmare" (NIGHTMARE) A dark and terrifying world created by Wizeman and other creatures above the second level. 　It is a world created by Wizeman in order to annihilate Nightopia and to drive our "consciousness" out of the dream world. Therefore, the world of Nightmare is the most disgusting world that reflects our "consciousness". 　For example, for those who have a strong dependence on their fathers, it creates a fierce mountain range, and for those who have too much of their mothers, it creates a raging stormy sea to stir up their fears. Thus, the inhabitants of the Nightmare world that scare us are the Nightmarens. 　Dreams of falling down to the ground, of being chased by someone, of losing oneself or one's relatives.... These are all created by the Nightmarens. 　However, the nightmares they create are not all bad. Because it is only when you face these adversities with courage that you will find your true, grown-up self..."

This translation caught my eye and I noticed this doesn’t give me a impression of 2B necessarily.
Do you have any more info to give? At the very least, I can see Low 2C or higher coming from this, but 2B isn’t supported currently.

Since all the dream worlds / Nightopias are presented as parallel bubbles and each one are stated to be potentially hold a reflection of the "real world", with the final dream world in NiD 1 being that example and being a reflection of the real world and shown parallel side by side with the other bubbles, that is why each one is a proper universe. The random dream world made by Chamelen is just supporting evidence since its verbatim stated to be infinite in size, with that one being logically parallel to the rest of the dream worlds. See the updated Universe page as well as above, should summarize the proposal.

 

[The_Pink_God]

While the page seemed solid at first glance, I think the Conceptual Manipulation stuff should have scans attached to it, also her Immortality is listed twice, IDK if that's a problem or something I overlooked

 

[Mephistus]

While the page seemed solid at first glance, I think the Conceptual Manipulation stuff should have scans attached to it, also her Immortality is listed twice, IDK if that's a problem or something I overlooked

No that's a problem, it shouldn't be listed twice I'll fix that too

The Conceptual stuff is from the archive.org WOG interview that's linked is from NiD.com (fan site), I'll add that part in right now.

 

[Livinmeme]

The conceptual Manipulation should probally be CM type 2 Possibly Type 1, because as the profile says, being completely tracendent of reality is CM type 1

 

[Livinmeme]

Such concepts are completely independent from the part of reality they govern. These concepts shape all of reality within their area of influence and at whatever level that area exists in, and everything in it "participates" in these concepts. For example, a circular object is circular because it is "participating" in the concept of "circle-ness". In this way, the alteration of these concepts will change every object of the concept across all of their area of influence, while the opposite wouldn't affect the concept.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Conceptual_Manipulation

Manipulation/Changing/Harming objects of Jung's archetypes and the collective conscious/unconscious which are mostly/nearly/completely transcendent of reality, Conceptual Anchoring: Can survive the destruction of all Nightmarens and Wizeman despite being in sync/linked/chained to their existence)

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

“

"Nightmare" (NIGHTMARE) A dark and terrifying world created by Wizeman and other creatures above the second level. 　It is a world created by Wizeman in order to annihilate Nightopia and to drive our "consciousness" out of the dream world. Therefore, the world of Nightmare is the most disgusting world that reflects our "consciousness". 　For example, for those who have a strong dependence on their fathers, it creates a fierce mountain range, and for those who have too much of their mothers, it creates a raging stormy sea to stir up their fears. Thus, the inhabitants of the Nightmare world that scare us are the Nightmarens. 　Dreams of falling down to the ground, of being chased by someone, of losing oneself or one's relatives.... These are all created by the Nightmarens. 　However, the nightmares they create are not all bad. Because it is only when you face these adversities with courage that you will find your true, grown-up self..."

This translation caught my eye and I noticed this doesn’t give me a impression of 2B necessarily.
Do you have any more info to give? At the very least, I can see Low 2C or higher coming from this, but 2B isn’t supported currently.

I do know that at bare minimum, the dimensions would have to be 3-B sized at least given there is a visible galaxy in the sky of one of the Dream Worlds. And they are shown to be different bodies of spaces parallel to one another. Nightopia in general also did have a link from a comic about having a different flow of time. Also, there are statements on both sides such as one of the guidebook scans says Nightopia "Exists next to our three dimensional universe" but there are also likewise statements of the Owl describing someone's dream as being a mirror to "Your world". And "Your world" most likely doesn't just refer to Milky Way Galaxy + Tetra galaxy as "Your World" would inherently mean either planet earth or the Universe.

 

[Mephistus]

Okay, adjusted the page accordingly with the CM to type 2, possibly type 1 and giving a justif that the characters are the archetypes, merging the Immortality section in P&A since it was listed twice. Great feedback you guys

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Since all the dream worlds / Nightopias are presented as parallel bubbles and each one are stated to be potentially hold a reflection of the "real world", with the final dream world in NiD 1 being that example and being a reflection of the real world and shown parallel side by side with the other bubbles, that is why each one is a proper universe. The random dream world made by Chamelen is just supporting evidence since its verbatim stated to be infinite in size, with that one being logically parallel to the rest of the dream worlds. See the updated Universe page as well as above, should summarize the proposal.

I see. Still neutral overall. The rest I think I am fine with

 

[Shmooply]

a sega verse that isnt sonic or yakuza getting love? fake
Jewerly manipulation should link to crystal manipulation, but everything else looks solid. I think the explanation for 2-B is a bit wordy, but that's just my opinion.

 

[Mephistus]

Relinked and rephrased that to crystal manip

 

[The_Pink_God]

I decided to go ahead and rework NiGHTS page as it has been untouched up for a long time and because the amount of mini-CRT's to get it up to my standard would be a pain with my current schedule and instead propose a complete overhaul.

Tell me what you guys think of the current profile compared to my proposed updated profile.

Should any of the parts be separated as blogs, is it too wordy and could certain parts be clarified better, what you think isn't correct, etc.

Profiles for Wizeman, Bomamba, Jackle, etc. are planned to be made in the future to help for powerscaling and resistance explanations to be shortened and to eventually make a proper verse page.

The gallery could also use more of their notable transformations beyond what is listed for their potential transformations, but the NiD wiki has some good renders and images to add eventually.

au revoir

Yeah it looks much better now
The profile looks great btw

 

[The_Pink_God]

I'm just a bit curious, what exactly is the Conceptual Anchoring? What does it give in terms of combat? And can't it be something like regeneration or smth -If it is what I think it is-?

 

[Mephistus]

I'm not sure if that's a P&A that's allowed if it doesn't have a page on here to link to on the wiki;

Conceptual Anchoring

The power to be immune to all conceptual abilities. Sub-power of Concept Manipulation. Ultimate version of Conceptual Resistance and Conceptual Defense. Variation of Superpower Immunity. Non-Conceptual User is immune to conceptual alteration abilities (logic, definition, perspectives, status...

powerlisting.fandom.com

Essentially they can somehow come back from their existence being nulled, but its not clear exactly the timeframe on that even though its not extremely long and if its practical for combat.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

I’m not going to lie, that is probably the shakiest justification for CM1 I’ve ever seen.

 

[The_Pink_God]

I'm not sure if that's a P&A that's allowed if it doesn't have a page on here;

Conceptual Anchoring

The power to be immune to all conceptual abilities. Sub-power of Concept Manipulation. Ultimate version of Conceptual Resistance and Conceptual Defense. Variation of Superpower Immunity. Non-Conceptual User is immune to conceptual alteration abilities (logic, definition, perspectives, status...

powerlisting.fandom.com

Essentially they can somehow come back from their existence being null, but it's not clear exactly the timeframe on that even though it's not extremely long, and if it's practical for combat.

Looks like Regeneration if you ask me

 

[Mephistus]

Looks like Regeneration if you ask me

Would Low-Godly level apply there then? Don't believe its higher but they are treated to have a spirit/soul as well, which would've been poofed away too. I'd rather have abilities that actually link to pages on site ._.

I’m not going to lie, that is probably the shakiest justification for CM1 I’ve ever seen.

Would it be better to strike it then? It is a possibly so its not like its meant to be taken solidly?

 

[Livinmeme]

I’m not going to lie, that is probably the shakiest justification for CM1 I’ve ever seen.

Why? the concepts are tracendent of reality

 

[The_Pink_God]

Would Low-Godly level apply there then? Don't believe its higher but they are treated to have a spirit/soul as well, which would've been poofed away too. I'd rather have abilities that actually link to pages on site ._.


Would it be better to strike it then? It is a possibly so its not like its meant to be taken solidly?

Isn't she like, the archetype of Shadows and a Jester, shouldn't that be like AE since the verse uses Jung's Archetypes? If that's so, and she regenerated from being erased, maybe even High-Godly can be argued

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Why? the concepts are tracendent of reality

It doesn’t seem to actually suggest they have it. It’s just inspired off Jung.

Would it be better to strike it then? It is a possibly so its not like its meant to be taken solidly?

If someone could argue it better, you can keep.

 

[Mephistus]

It doesn’t seem to actually suggest they have it. It’s just inspired off Jung.

If someone could argue it better, you can keep.

"The character of NiGHTS represents what's known in psychology as the Shadow which is sort of an alter-self"

Ok, I presume you are fine with keeping the type 2 at least?

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

"The character of NiGHTS represents what's known in psychology as the Shadow which is sort of an alter-self"

Ok, I presume you are fine with keeping the type 2 at least?

But why is this Type 2? The Shadow, the repressed or negative, alter-ego of yourself is a common trope in fiction. You’d have to prove its conceptual manipulation.

 

[Mephistus]

But why is this Type 2? The Shadow, the repressed or negative, alter-ego of yourself is a common trope in fiction. You’d have to prove its conceptual manipulation.

The only "manipulation" they have is beating up / killing other dream concept beings, but that's not really even permanently destroying the concept itself they are based upon.

So guess its getting the axe.

Any more input on the regen level? Mid-Godly?

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

I’ll review it.

 

[The_Pink_God]

NiGHTS should have Time Stop via the Time Stop Power Panel, which let NiGHTS stop time for a few seconds when used

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Sounds legit

 

[Mephistus]

NiGHTS should have Time Stop via the Time Stop Power Panel, which let NiGHTS stop time for a few seconds when used

Agreed will add that

 

[The_Pink_God]

NiGHTS should have BFR, she should be able to forcefully send people into different dreams like Reala does

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

NiGHTS should have BFR, she should be able to forcefully send people into different dreams like Reala does

Has NiGHTS ever demonstrated that ability himself?

 

[The_Pink_God]

Don't know, but it shouldn't be that far off to say she could

 

[Mephistus]

They do BFR for lesser Nightmarens / Nightopians to the main characters dream worlds with their paralooping so its in character

Edit; just added the 2 links justify for it on the profile; this and this

 

[Mephistus]

bonk bump!

 

[Mephistus]

Bumpeeerino.

Nothing new to say thats been updated, just waiting for more mod agreement

 

[Dragonite007]

Bump