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Nightmare vs Mard Geer

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@Dragon there's nothing about the argument we presented for nightmare that's flawed. You're trying to bypass the hax he has by saying that because Nightmare is weaker, even though that's not even noteworthy since it's not a 2X gap, it automatically means something as simple as thorns is going to be impossible to get out. There's nothing that suggest that the thorns can't be avoided, especially when FT characters that can't teleport can dodge them.
 
Actually, if you read, they actually factored in Mard Geer defeating Nightmare. But as I pointed out in my post, defeating the host is not enough. You have to take out Soul Edge. And the fact is that Mard Geer would resist Soul Edge messing with his mind and getting him to grab Soul Edge. Assuming Mard Geer doesn't do so on his own. Soul Wave is just more or less a bonus. That was the argument. And even then, this is assuming Mard Geer ties him up at the start in the first place. Also said non movement attack I was talking about wasn't even Soul Wave, just a destruction wave.

Not to mention no one said nor implied anything about anything passive, nor did I in my initial explaination. If Mard Geer touches Soul Edge he is done for, or if he gets hit by Nightmare's influence which is a wave of energy sent via the air, he gets corrupted.

That's my last bit of input. You haven't debunked anything, but you have given a vote and your perspective of the fight at least.
 
Theglassman12 said:
@Dragon there's nothing about the argument we presented for nightmare that's flawed. You're trying to bypass the hax he has by saying that because Nightmare is weaker, even though that's not even noteworthy since it's not a 2X gap, it automatically means something as simple as thorns is going to be impossible to get out. There's nothing that suggest that the thorns can't be avoided, especially when FT characters that can't teleport can dodge them.
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Everytime you type "Dragon" I think you mean me. ovo

Anywho, we are now in Grace Period.
 
@Theglassman12

This is the vote everyone has been fraing for. " via possesion and Soul Wave"

I see you ignored the part where I said that he needs to stand still to do Soul Wave which gets him grabbed by Mard and the part where he's not going to pick up the sword of the person he beat because he's going to think he's an insect. Even if Nightmare keeps ripping out of the thorns, Mard will just EE him.


@Dragon

Actually, he doesn't need to destroy the sword. He can just leave it there, winning by incap. If what you meant by that is that Nightmare will come out of the sword, then Mard will just destroy them both with EE. Again, no one mentioned Soul Edge talking to Mard Geer and convincing him into picking up the sword. That was not the arguement, the argument was that Soul Wave would oneshot Mard and if Mard won somehow, he would pick up the sword to kill Zeref because of his personality. This is not why you are saying Nightmare would win, which is that Nightmare has a thought based soul absorbtion and that he can mind hax Mard into touching it. This means the votes who voted for the debunked reasoning should be removed. You said Soul Edge's power/influencing is several kilometers and that touching it = corruption but it was my fault for assuming that those meant the same thing. Mard could just use thorns to block the influence blast.
 
"he uses his mental powers on order to get his opponent to grab Soul Edge and eventually become his new host and thus the Azure Knight lives on."

^Literally in my explanation comment...
 
You debunked nothing. You '''assume''' Mard Geer just wraps his thorns around him. Soul Wave and Possession are still likely options.
 
Theglassman12 said:
no, none of the votes would be removed since they were based off mine and HST's vote.
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I still don't see how Nightmare using only soul wave is a valid vote. And again, thorns > someone having to stop dodging in order to stand still and use a move in terms of speed.
 
Because it's something he uses a lot and can guarantee a win for him as proven many times when he uses it. Right, and how are thorns better than soul nuking and possession or Mind Hax?
 
I would hope a being with like a thousand years of experiencing countless battle and wars, a being that can literally copy any fighting style from all those years and has gone toe to toe with some of the most skilled warriors in the verse would know to teleport out of vines and go to a safe location. Nightmare/Soul Edge isn't some mindless killing machine. He's actually an extremely intelligent being.
 
Dude, this is Hst's vote. "Nightmare....via possesion and Soul Wave

Mard does have a chance with MM to kill Nightmare if he decides not to Soul Wave or use Evil Seed. but his own fatal flaw would come into play: He wants power to kill Zeref. And what better extra insurance than the Sword of the powerful opponent he just erased?"

How on earth is Nightmare going to do a Soul Wave if he needs to stand still for it and he's going to be constantly barraged by thorns? I already explained why he wouldn't pick up the sword naturally and this vote says nothing about the mind hax.
 
Again, nowhere in his vote did Hst mention teleporting, or the copying of fighting styles, or the thousand years of experience or even the intelligence.
 
>Possession

The process of possession is using his mental powers to get his opponents to grab the sword.
 
And where does he explain that? That's the same as him going "Nightmare via mind hax" and literally nothing else because that's exactly what it is.
 
Except his knowledge is also going by my post and explanation on Nightmare's abilties and nature. At this point you are literally nitpicking details.
 
DragonEmperor23 said:
Again, nowhere in his vote did Hst mention teleporting, or the copying of fighting styles, or the thousand years of experience or even the intelligence.
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No need to. The simple fact is, his vote is still very much valid as his options of winning are still blatant. Inferno doesn't need to copy fighting styles to win. He doesn't need to mention teleportation. You are assuming Mard Geer gets him with thorns before the Soul Wave is released in the first place....you are really about to get me in a heavy debating mood...
 
DragonEmperor23 said:
He didn't say fra, you can't give him the vote just because your comment goes into more detail.
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He did not need to. Possession is common sense, he doesn't need to mention the entire process. The simple fact is that Soul Edge would possess Mard Geer. That is the end result. He even gave a reason to why Nightmare would do such a thing on his own. I can give him a vote, because his reasoning was legitimate and you truly have debunked nothing. I am sick of repeating myself here.
 
There's multiple types of possession, you can't just name a hax and be done with it. He didn't say anything about him doing it on his own, he said Mard would do it on his own, not nightmare which is what I debunked.
 
Dude, and when I say this I'm talking about the Soul Wave specifically, requires Nightmare to stab the ground. When the fight starts, Mard will use the vines and attack. The vines will ensnare him before he can stab the ground because they come out of the ground.
 
Except there is only one way Nightmare forces Possession. Not all Possession is the same, but Nightmare only has his one way of possessing others

You act like Nightmare can't just stab the ground in an instant. Stabbing the ground is not that taxing of a movement. Raising his sword in the air, is not the taxing of a movement.

Once again, you argued against said point, but you did not debunk it. You just gave a new possibility.
 
Aren't the votes supposed to explain how the person wins? If someone didn't know what Nightmare does to do Possession then they would need to explain. Hand getsures are less taxing than raising and lowering a sword tho
 
speed's equal so it's only logical that nightmare would be able to move his hand faster than without his sword therefore Mard can as well
 
No one mentioned speed. The fact is that lifting Soul Edge into the air is basically a hand wave for Nightmare.
 
speed equal would mean that if Nightmare can lift soul edge at a certain speed, and moving his hand without soul edge is faster then Mard would be able to move his hand before Nightmare can move the sword
 
Know it doesn't. It just gives his swordless hand wave a speed boost or just makes it just as fast.
 
in all honesty I shouldn't be arguing this so hard when the whole thought based several kilometers of soul wave actually debunks my whole point lol, Nightmare fra. since I was the only one arguing against you can add this now
 
I think you are mixing powers around. Soul Wave is not thought based. Releasing his influence of power is. And said influence only has a chance to corrupt someone or term them malfested or a pawn of Nightmare. It depends on if Nightmare in this scenario targets Mard specifically or the entire world. That's assuming he cares to do that as Nightmare/Soul Edge likes to steal souls, not control minds.. Soul Wave is said Soul Nuke that we have been arguing about.
 
They start at 4km so Mard Geer needs close distances before thorning Nightmare while Nightmare can put his sword in the ground and throw his stuff.
 
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