New profile for Bendu.

[OriginalStar8]

I have made a new profile for Bendu. These are the things i have changed.

• Adding scans and references to his powers, ap, durability, etc.
• Added powers that are common for Incorporeal beings such as Intangibility, Infinite Stamina and Self-Sustenance (Types 1, 2 and 3).
• Separated powers and resistances in their own tabbers.
• Added a picture of him in his cloud form.

Old Bendu.

New Bendu.

Note: All these scans and references are collected by me. All information is sourced and Canon.

Edit: Changes have been applied.

 

[Antvasima]

@Hop_Hoppington-Hoppenhiemer @Shadowbokunohero @Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan @Sir_Ovens @LordTracer @Newendigo

What do you think about this?

 

[LordTracer]

This is mostly alright aside from some minor things (some of which are just from the original profile, not your revision)

• I don’t think incorporeal beings automatically get infinite stamina
• The image of his cloud form seems kinda unnecessary
• Pretty sure the AP and durability should have ‘far higher’ and not ‘much higher’
• Lifting strength should just be Unknown, I see no reason for it to be Superhuman
• Striking strength should also just be Unknown
• There’s no real reason for his intelligence to be greater than Yoda’s, so that should be removed

 

[OriginalStar8]

I don’t think incorporeal beings automatically get infinite stamina

Why?

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with Tracer.

Also, unless there are explicit statements or proof of being able to exert oneself forever, we should preferably try to avoid potential extreme exaggerations.

 

[LordTracer]

Why?

Well, looking at the pages linked on the Incorporeality page, the only ones that have Infinite/Limitless stamina don’t have any justification at all, or their justification is based on the mechanics of their verse, or they’re this one that has ‘Possibly Infinite’ via being a conceptual being.

 

[OriginalStar8]

Incorporeal beings are not physical entities they just take the form of one but don’t have the limitations of one. Bendu exerting himself means nothing because he is not true physical being. He doesn’t feel tired because he is not a physical being and does not have the limitations of one, similar as to how incorporeal beings can continue to exist if their coporeal form is destroyed, it’s because it’s not their true self.

 

[Antvasima]

Is this absolute tirelessness based on the lore or speculation?

 

[LordTracer]

Incorporeal beings are not physical entities they just take the form of one but don’t have the limitations of one. Bendu exerting himself means nothing because he is not true physical being. He doesn’t feel tired because he is not a physical being and does not have the limitations of one, similar as to how incorporeal beings can continue to exist if their coporeal form is destroyed, it’s because it’s not their true self.

Again, we don’t automatically give characters infinite stamina just because they’re incorporeal. You can look at the pages linked on the Incorporeality page yourself.

 

[OriginalStar8]

This does not make any sense. How can a being who is not bound by a physical form not have infinite stamina? Bendu doesn’t need to breathe, sleep, eat and drink to survive, either of which are all traits of a physical being which Bendu isn’t. Self-Sustenance is allowed to stay due to his Incorporeality, yet he doesn’t get Infinite Stamina for being the same way that he is allowed to have All Types of Self-Sustenance, because he is not physical and he is not bound by physical limitations such as Stamina, needing to breathe, sleep, eat and drink. Why can’t this just be applied across the board? It’s simple, something that transcends the physical and only takes the form of a physical being to interact with others, cannot tire.

As an example, his physical manifestation was destroyed by Thrawn, yet he still was laughing after his physical manifestation disappeared. If he didn’t have Infinite Stamina or was bound by a physical form this wouldn’t have happened. Infinite Stamina means that you can continue to act no matter the situation and Bendu did exactly that.

 

[LordTracer]

Infinite Stamina means that you can continue to act no matter the situation and Bendu did exactly that.

Actually this is what infinite stamina means:

Infinite: Characters with inexhaustible sources of energy at their disposal, allowing them to fight indefinitely, although not necessarily allowing them to ignore crippling pain or fight on through critical injuries.

Why can’t this just be applied across the board? It’s simple, something that transcends the physical and only takes the form of a physical being to interact with others, cannot tire.

Dude, I dunno what to tell you. There’s pages with Incorporeality that aren’t automatically given infinite stamina. This one, for example, only has Superhuman stamina. If you think all incorporeal beings should have infinite stamina, you’d need to make another CRT for that.

 

[OriginalStar8]

If you think all incorporeal beings should have infinite stamina, you’d need to make another CRT for that.

Making a CRT for using common sense? Give me an example as to how Incorporeal beings cannot have Infinite Stamina. Use proven scans that show me that Incorporeal beings can tire. Otherwise common sense should be applied here and that means that something that transcends the physical cannot tire out, because tiring out is only for physical beings which Bendu isn’t.

 

[LordTracer]

Give me an example as to how Incorporeal beings cannot have Infinite Stamina.

I already did in the comment you literally just replied to, but oookay…
Incorporeal being with Superhuman stamina
Incorporeal being that only has possibly Infinite stamina
Incorporeal being with Unknown stamina
Incorporeal with extremely high stamina
Incorporeal with only nearly limitless stamina
Incorporeal with Unknown stamina
Incorporeal with AVERAGE stamina

And I can get even more than those. The wiki doesn’t give infinite stamina without explicit confirmation of the character being unable to tire. Just being incorporeal is not enough.

 

[LordTracer]

On another note, I think the Bendu might have been forgotten when the canon profiles were downgraded to Tier 8. Its main AP and durability justifications is that it can destroy and take hits from AT-AT walkers, which only have Multi-City Block level durability and Building level+ to Multi-City Block level attack potency.

Plus, as Darth Sidious’ profile notes, Bendu is stated to be weaker than Sidious, who is Multi-City Block level.

So Bendu’s attack potency and durability should be downgraded to At least Multi-City Block level, possibly far higher.

 

[OriginalStar8]

I already did in the comment you literally just replied to, but oookay…

This one, for example, only has Superhuman stamina. If you think all incorporeal beings should have infinite stamina, you’d need to make another CRT for that.

I overlooked the link because i was busy doing other things. You’re again overlooking the fact that, that character is Incorporeal, it also didn’t say that the character was tired after it in his page, so what was the point of showing that link when he didn’t even tire. That he can fight that long and not tire just proves that Incorporeal beings cannot tire.

 

[OriginalStar8]

Plus, as Darth Sidious’ profile notes, Bendu is stated to be weaker than Sidious, who is Multi-City Block level.

Where is that stated? Do you have a scan?

 

[LordTracer]

I overlooked the link because i was busy doing other things. You’re again overlooking the fact that, that character is Incorporeal, it also didn’t say that the character was tired after it in his page, so what was the point of showing that link when he didn’t even tire. That he can fight that long and not tire just proves that Incorporeal beings cannot tire.

I’m not overlooking anything, the profile literally says that it has Superhuman stamina. There’s no evidence to suggest it has Infinite stamina, so it isn’t given Infinite stamina. So as I’ve been telling you: the wiki does not automatically give infinite stamina without there being an actual statement of it.

Where is that stated? Do you have a scan?

It’s literally on Sidious’ profile, but here.

 

[OriginalStar8]

I’m not overlooking anything, the profile literally says that it has Superhuman stamina. There’s no evidence to suggest it has Infinite stamina, so it isn’t given Infinite stamina.

The character didn’t even tire. That is just proof that an Incorporeal being cannot tire and thus not tiring means Infinite Stamina. It was nowhere stated that he was tired after it and Superhuman Stamina was still given to them anyway, even when that character did not tire. The point of Stamina is literally to see how long you can keep going without tiring, and even that gets messed up in that profile because that same character did not tire after such a long fight and he still got the Stamina rating like he did actually get tired when he didn't.

So as I’ve been telling you: the wiki does not automatically give infinite stamina without there being an actual statement of it.

Being Incorporeal automatically just means that you transcend being physical and, thus, physical needs, such as stamina. Why does it need proof when that same character literally has a state of being that does not allow them to tire?

 

[LordTracer]

It was nowhere stated that he was tired after it and Superhuman Stamina was still given to them anyway, even when that character did not tire.

And that proves my point. If you are not directly stated to have infinite stamina, you are not given infinite stamina. Like I told you before, if you wish to change that standard, you’ll have to make a CRT for it. Because as things stand currently, you need actual statements to get infinite stamina.

 

[Antvasima]

LordTracer is correct. Let's drop this argument, and focus on other issues here, please.

 

[OriginalStar8]

And that proves my point. If you are not directly stated to have infinite stamina, you are not given infinite stamina. Like I told you before, if you wish to change that standard, you’ll have to make a CRT for it. Because as things stand currently, you need actual statements to get infinite stamina.

That does not prove your point, it only proves mine. It wasn’t stated that he got tired, so he has Infinite Stamina. I don’t have to make a CRT because I’m using common sense. Why do I need to make a CRT when I’m stating the facts? This argument is only being dropped because you can’t find evidence that you need to prove your point. Show me a scan that he said that he got tired after the fight or show me a scan from an Incorporeal character that states that he is tired after a fight, otherwise you're just twisting words around to make you seem right when you aren’t. An Incorporeal being cannot tire due to transcending physical needs, such as Stamina. I’m not going to waste my time to get this accepted anymore. If you're ignoring common sense and instead use the wiki standards argument, that just means that you can’t prove anything. Either he gets Infinite Stamina or I’m not participating in this thread anymore and it can be closed and gets not applied.

 

[OriginalStar8]

LordTracer is correct. Let's drop this argument, and focus on other issues here, please.

Do you have proof that he is correct? Do you have scans of Incorporeal beings that are able to tire?

 

[Antvasima]

The point is that we always need good proof of such claims or they are counted as no-limits fallacies. Ethereal beings could also theorethically run out of their power reserves, especially if they are not infinitely powerfulin the first place.

 

[OriginalStar8]

That’s no proof. Why would an Incorporeal character need proof of having Infinite Stamina when it already transcends the need for a physical form? You can’t prove to me otherwise with scans so you just keep repeating that it needs statements that an Incorporeal being can tire in a fight but that hasn’t been proved by you, in fact this thread is only postponing the inevitable and that is that it doesn’t look like Infinite Stamina is getting accepted, so this doesn’t have to be applied to his old profile anymore.

 

[Antvasima]

Different fictions use very different standards made by different writers. You cannot standardise your own preferences across all of fiction without evidence for each individual case.

We can continue to talk about other issues regarding your suggested changes instead.

 

[LordTracer]

So to recap:

• Cloud form image gets removed
• Attack potency and durability are downgraded to At least 8-A, possibly far higher
• Striking strength is changed to just Unknown
• Stamina becomes Unknown
• The “Should be superior to Yoda” in its intelligence stat gets removed, and it should probably just have Gifted intelligence, not Genius

 

[OriginalStar8]

Different fictions use very different standards made by different writers. You cannot standardise your own preferences across all of fiction without evidence for each individual case.

How does this different writers definition work?

 

[Antvasima]

So to recap:

• Cloud form image gets removed
• Attack potency and durability are downgraded to At least 8-A, possibly far higher
• Striking strength is changed to just Unknown
• Stamina becomes Unknown
• The “Should be superior to Yoda” in its intelligence stat gets removed, and it should probably just have Gifted intelligence, not Genius

That is probably fine.

How does this different writers definition work?

It depends from case to case. The job description of writers of different fictions is to make things up for the sakes of their stories, regardless if it makes sense or not.

 

[OriginalStar8]

I didn’t have my best day today. I’m confused and frustrated with my current situation outside of the internet. It wasn’t my intention to make such a big deal out of it. I will apply everything that has been accepted in a couple minutes.

That doesn’t mean that I agree with Bendu not having Infinite Stamina. It just means that I didn’t mean to make a big deal out of it. But now we can continue with the revisions.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. No problem. That is good then.

 

[Hop_Hoppington-Hoppenhiemer]

Why?

What does not having a physical form explicitly imply to have no need for stamina/infinite stamina? The Force itself may be pretty vast, if not endless, but all users of it do, to an extent have to put effort into making use of it.

That’s no proof. Why would an Incorporeal character need proof of having Infinite Stamina when it already transcends the need for a physical form? You can’t prove to me otherwise with scans so you just keep repeating that it needs statements that an Incorporeal being can tire in a fight but that hasn’t been proved by you, in fact this thread is only postponing the inevitable and that is that it doesn’t look like Infinite Stamina is getting accepted, so this doesn’t have to be applied to his old profile anymore.

The Force does not grant any form of infinite anything to users/Force-sensitive or beings that exist as a embodiment of the Force (see The Father, who eventually did in fact tire and wane in strength to hold off The Son, as it says in his summary on our own wiki). To assume the Bendu (or others) is an exception based on "standard" rules of incorporeal beings is somewhat fallacious, because the Force itself is infinite in some regard/interpretation (regardless of canon/Legends), but it does not extend to everyone that interacts with it.

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with Hop.

We should continue with evaluating other parts of what has been suggested here.

 

[Vietthai96]

Just passing by, but Stamina, by it definition, is how long and how much you can exert yourself, not some biological stamina

 

[Antvasima]

Yes, of course.

 

[OriginalStar8]

I’m now convinced. It seems that everything else is going to be applied, with the exception of Bendu’s Stamina not getting an Infinite rating, but like i said in the beginning of this post this seems fine with me now, mainly, due to the new arguments. I have updated the page, is it now good to post?

 

[LordTracer]

It looks fine to me.

 

[OriginalStar8]

I have applied the changes. This can be closed.