Ness' Tier

[Cropfist]

So Ness is rated as "Universe level (had the psychic powers of the entire Earth, managed to slightly wound Giygas)"

Giygas' durability, meanwhile, is "At least Universe level+ (No force in the universe, physical or psychic, had any effect on Giygas), possibly higher."

Even if it was only slight damage, universe level+ is infinitely greater than just universe level (as we should all know.) So I suggest that Ness' tier be revised to Low 2-C.

 

[Cropfist]

beep

 

[Lina_Shields]

I was about to suggest this tierng change as well, but wasn't it stated that Ness and the party had to break the rules of the game or something to sufficenty harm Giygas?

Still, your party did't get oblitetated in a single blow when Giygas attacked, so I guess this upgrade makes sense.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Literally the only reason why Giygas is at Low 2-C is because he is infinitely superior to Ness. Pretty sure this doesn't makes sense.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Just have to draw a dart in the dark here, but wouldn't High 3-A work or not?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Low 2-C could be good. Or maybe 3-A/High 3-A with Low 2-C/2-C durability? Not sure.

The Giygas Ness and the party were actually hurting wasn't at his full power, abstract form yet, IIRC (granted, he would have still been a "universal devourer", at that point). Once he reached that form, they became unable to really do anything against him ("You Cannot Grasp The True Form Of Giygas' Attack!"), and it was only through the power of prayer contacting the player in another world that Giygas was defeated.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

The profiles states that Giygas is infinitely above even post Universe-Merge Ness so I don't think we can say that it only applied to post-merge Ness.

 

[Lina_Shields]

Here's the problem: with the feats shown during the battle with Giygas, regardless of Ness contacting the player in another world, Ness would not be able to hurt (much less defeat) Giygas if Giygas was infinitely stronger than Ness and the party.

If Ness became one with the universe via statement, does it mean just the physical universe, or the entire timeline?

Heck, did the power of prayer contact the player in a different universe, or in a different point of time?

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Well here, either Ness is Low 2-C and Giygas is 2-A, or Ness is 3-A and Giygas is Low 2-C. That or we take the Infinite statement as Hyperbole and says both are 3-A.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

1. He couldn't. That's what I was saying. Once Giygas became his final, fully abstract form, there was literally nothing but Ness and the party could do but call out for help and pray. The Giygas form they actually hurt was not full power, but still referred to as a "Universal Devourer" and to be capable of destroying the universe.

2. It's assumed he just became "one with the universe" in a more traditional sense, which is 3-A.

3. Universe. The real world is supposed to be an alternate universe in the Mother series.

 

[Lina_Shields]

@Azzy: I guess you covered it pretty well here. So should we take the power of prayer defeating full-power Giygas as PIS then?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

@Crazy

Well, sorta, but it's not like it scales to anybody.

 

[LoudCloud]

Low 2-C could be good. Or maybe 3-A/High 3-A with Low 2-C/2-C durability? Not sure.
The Giygas Ness and the party were actually hurting wasn't at his full power, abstract form yet, IIRC (granted, he would have still been a "universal devourer", at that point). Once he reached that form, they became unable to really do anything against him ("You Cannot Grasp The True Form Of Giygas' Attack!"), and it was only through the power of prayer contacting the player in another world that Giygas was defeated.

Well there's always the fact that Gyigas is a ******* idiot who has no idea what he's doing half the time. Pokey even says that when they fight him, he's not even fully conscious of what's happening.

 

[LoudCloud]

@Azzy: I guess you covered it pretty well here. So should we take the power of prayer defeating full-power Giygas as PIS then?

When praying they borrowed power from "the player". Who would obviously be way above Giygas' level as it's a real life human. It's basically a fourth-wall break to defeat Giygas, not PIS.