Nep-Serp vs. Kirby redo

[Jinsye]

Trying again but with a better Kirby

Speed is =

High 7-A Serp is used

Who wins?

Junko's Mai: 0

Junko's Lovechild: 0

 

[DMUA]

Did I miss something that stopped Serpens from dunking on them in Dreamland

 

[Jinsye]

Kirby is resists reality warping to a very high degree

 

[FateAlbane]

Taking the obvious out of the way first, what's Kirby's answer to Nep-Serp entering the Dream World and using RW/nightmare nuking from there?

 

[Jinsye]

Kirby is resists reality warping to a very high degree

 

[Moritzva]

Watch Serpens no-sell the resistance.

 

[FateAlbane]

Well, Reality Warping is diferent from Dream World shenanigans. That falls more under sorcery, and there's a clear distinction made.

...That said, if resisting the RW is the most Kirby can do or he has shown no feats of fully fighting back within a Dream World, he kind of gets nuked non-stop until his dream self gives in via attacks with EE added, Duplication, Danmaku to no end, the whole damn world following her strikes and so on.


Should also note that being able to fight with one's normal self does not translate to Dream Self's capabilities: Serpens straight up mentions how coming from *Dragnar*, she wouldn't be surprised if he could face them "even there". Because normally someone's dream self is helpless. It's also how she planned to kill the whole group after dealing with Miko:

"Here, no matter where you are,"

"Everything is your enemy."

"I just realized... I may as well finish off your every other friend while they sleep, once I'm done with you."

"Besides, this time I am not alone. We are going to the Dream World, and simultaneously attack him from there as the others strike him here."

"Knowing Dragnar, he might be capable of facing us even there, so be prepared!"

Miko for one had resistance and still got nuked pretty handily until she actually figured that as a messenger of the Gods ~ someone with divine connection she could also struggle for control of the Dream World from Serpens.

Serpens herself mentioned in the Dragnar fight that resistances don't stop stuff forever even if they match a power. Because Energeia RE keeps going ~ growing as a fight goes on. It's a question of which side is growing more ~ adapting or enforcing that destruction.

...Long story short, even if it started being matched, RE will keep growing/adapting to nuke it. If there's no RE on the defensive side to keep that resistance updated ~ growing with the user as well, it will just keep making it less and less efficient overtime until it's pretty much the same as it not being there.

 

[Jinsye]

Hypernova should be able to do Serp in, I know CC characters resist power copy but I don't think the dimensional travel covers being sealed in Kirby's stomach.

Also the Star Rod is basically the progenitor of all good dreams so it might be able to struggle with Serpens over control on the Dream World.

 

[Moritzva]

Uh

What's the strongest Reality Warping we have in Fate One Shots?

 

[Jinsye]

Bill's Weirdmageddon.

 

[Moritzva]

Which is how potent?

Also, I don't recall if Gil has Reality Warping.

 

[Jinsye]

Planetary reality warping when it's weak, would corrupt the entire planet and continue spreading farther into the universe, breaks time, reverses gravity, warps mana and shit like that.

 

[Moritzva]

...that's it?

Since EVOLVERSE is like, EWTRTW-levels of smurfy.

Well, we actually have one form of Reality Warping that's stronger than Bill's, discounting Gil.

 

[FateAlbane]

Unless Kirby opened with Hypernova or used it really soon it would be pretty irrelevant as in the Dream World Serpens functions as pretty much one with the whole thing. Aka Kirby would need to eat the whole place if it wanted to nom her.

...Also her Dimensional Travel should indeed be able to escape it, given how descriptions of the Dream World are... Eh, let me find it. This much actually is translated for good measure.

The world of Dreams is free from a lot of limitations of the human realm , and qualitatively superior.

Stuff perceived by the senses in this land of dream and imagination/fantasy meshes togethe, they can capture and translate sensations as they well please because it's beyond limitations of the "boorish human realm".

Even denizens of it have no place in time, nor a need to exist in space. This is not the case for Serpens, being a half fairy but it applies to the world per se, which is what she is manipulating here.

The world is utterly removed from human reality and its surface made of endless pieces of imagination ~ dreams.

It's a world that walks in stillness, as Celelel's mother puts it in the main book.

And is a world without any true distinctions of Duality.

While fairies dimensional travelling can cross conceptual boundaries of Fantasy and Reality.

 

[Jinsye]

I'm fairly sure EWTRTW levels of smurf was restricted to just Siren and Alhazred.

If it's not I will throw Cirno out of my window

 

[Moritzva]

Fate, how potent is Serp's Reality Warping?

 

[FateAlbane]

Isn't it so nice to have some dream world Stuff translated since so long ago and for something entirely unrelated to matches here but still find use for it in a thread anyways?

 

[Jinsye]

Also Pioneer of the Stars works as a minor "I resist ******' everything" in-game, so if Kirby was hit with something he didn't resist Pioneer of the Stars would say "actually you do have a chance of resisting"

 

[Moritzva]

That's a bit of a NLF, though, Ed.

Granted, there is one ability higher in potency and range, being able to screw up just about everything, including any higher dimensional stuff Gil may throw.

 

[Jinsye]

I mean

that's how it works in Fate/Tabletop anyways, you'd need to be able to deny probability manipulation saying he has a chance of resisting if you'd like to have it work a bit better. It doesn't prevent against something like, being punched though because you have a chance to block/deflect/dodge/counter the punch. It makes the impossible, possible. Not guaranteed.

Which would technically mean Kirby would only have a chance of resistance, not will resist. But we translate saving throws into guaranteed resistances, so that's just weird.

Granted, Serp can do some crazy-ass shit in the Dream World, so I don't doubt she could.

 

[FateAlbane]

Well, resisting everything within a verse doesn't translate to resisting everything in existence, which is more or less the reason why I'm adding resistances for the EVOLVERSE list as they show up rather than saying they do tank everything that has appeared (If only I had time to translate everything I've written, but alas...)

...Like I said above, even if he resisted there's the growing RE problem saying "Maybe you resist, but you absolutely don't enough." anyways. It's like how the group even at an early point in the saga started sort of walking through Svectral's vector manip near the end of the fight.

Whilst at the start it was affecting them at any turn. Other than that, there is again the matter of fighting potential of dream self being normally pretty low by comparison to the real world one (that changes if your Energeia is refined enough that it resonates with any component of your existence like Dragnar's case OR have divine connections). Serp was confident she could kill the party on her own because of this.

A point I also forgot to mention is manipulating the adversary's own dream self. Something she very much abused against Dragnar at first:

She throws a gigantic energy ball through the expanding globe of Dragnar's Chaos, of which the aspect is no different from that of a miniature moon: The attack blasts through like a meteor forcing its way through the atmosphere, and erases Dragnar's power all the same as it does - instead of making opposition, his powers only make the celestial body grow!

"Ng------AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRGH!"

"Even if you summon powers in this land, I... We have control of it as a whole. Anything you may manifest here is seen as just an extension of the dream world. Even you can not overcome us here!" The man is hit full force, and the globe explodes, as his body disappears under the ensuing light.

 

[Jinsye]

I mean, Pioneer of the Stars turns things you don't resist, into things you resist. So I'm not sure on that one.

Though I still believe the Star Rod should be capable of opposing control over the Dream World due to it being the creator of all good dreams, but idk.

 

[Moritzva]

Just how potent is her Reality Warping?

 

[FateAlbane]

Like many official dream manipulators, her profile lists it as a big fat "Unknown" because I'm not bothered enough to rate the surface level of the dream world past the above descriptions.

...So we should just treat it as "a plane superior to notions of the human realm", "can affect duality, time, space, concepts, what the opponent has is also understood as part of it unless they have warping of their own", yada yada.

Namely just use the feats for Serp as shown in the story and Dream World descriptions for what she affects. I think I already posted most of the relevant stuff.

...With that in mind, what feats of fighting in a dream world and using dream world warping Kirby has on his end?

 

[Moritzva]

Kirby can no-sell universal ranged warping that screws and brings to the halt all manner of time and causality, even able to affect and disturb any manner of extra-dimensional attacks that happen to overlap with the realm.

probably not enough for EVOLVERSE though

 

[Jinsye]

The Star Rod is the creator of all good dreams and is capable of warping good dreams to empower itself and negate the corruption of dreams as well. The Star Rod's entire domain is good dreams so it should be capable of warping them to benefit Kirby.

 

[FateAlbane]

That's... Confusing me a bit. Does range here equal potency? I could swear this stuff was more about how far it went (like, to give an example say, Diavolo's stand affecting the Universe and whatnot but he is still tier 8).

...Because if it did, and assuming I were to ignore the "Don't care about duality/the entire world of mortals below is qualitatively inferior", even the surface level of the world in question would be at least on the 2-A to High 2-A range by virtue of being superior to/covering the dreams and nightmares of every mortal being in the "Netzach Level" (4th dimension) of the Theos Dekeract, and then stretching to every other Netzach Level, from the other Dekeracts.

That's part of the reason why it's used as the dwelling place for messengers of the Gods. Though does this kind of stuff ~ range really qualify for Hax potency?

 

[FateAlbane]

The Star Rod is the creator of all good dreams and is capable of warping good dreams to empower itself and negate the corruption of dreams as well. The Star Rod's entire domain is good dreams so it should be capable of warping them to benefit Kirby.

See... This is also confusing me, a bit. Like, I showed what Serp does with her stuff. 'k there.

But without dem feats of what Kirby does with this or how well he uses the power you are mentioning, I'm oofed in the dark. I could equally assume it is enough for him to hold his own very easily or it's enough to make it even or enough for him to get nuked.

 

[Jinsye]

Well someone hasn't made a Freddy Krueger servant so I don't exactly have feats to back it up, I can only really go based off of my intent for the power.

 

[Moritzva]

It really depends. Range often scales with things such as Mind Manipulation due to affecting far more people; meanwhile, things such as Time Stop (or, in Diavolo's case, Time Erase) nearly always affect everything in fiction.

Regaaardless, it seems like Serps, too, is an EWTRTW character. So, rip Kirby.

 

[FateAlbane]

Just use her second key that doesn't have any of this dream forkery.

 

[Jinsye]

Her second key is High 6-C tho

 

[Moritzva]

Well someone hasn't made a Freddy Krueger servant so I don't exactly have feats to back it up, I can only really go based off of my intent for the power.

One, two, Freddy's coming to a Fate near you.

 

[Moritzva]

Her second key is High 6-C tho

CC is too smurfed for like, all but one High 6-C I can think of.

 

[FateAlbane]

Given how she lost her ability to freely travel from Reality to Dreams later down the road to save Miko after the Dragnar fight, in her second key you can specify whether or not she has it. And currently, indeed she doesn't so I would default to that.

So unless someone actually tried Dream Manip on her on their own/pulled her into a dream, High 6-C Serpens can't use any of this stuff and can be normally fought in the physical plane.

 

[Moritzva]

Kirby is only 7-A here, huh.

Well this seems like a stomp. Siren only needs to sneeze on her once, much less use Dream World shenanigans.