Nasuverse: nuking speed

[Wankbreaker]

only making this because I was told that to make sweeping changes to a deleted verse that is eventually going to come back, a CRT is still needed. That, and it'll make dumb speed scaling arguments easier to conclude.
also, dont need people whining when the profiles come back about "why aren't my type moon characters infinity immeasurable MFTL+++++++++++ speed any more?"


(All FGO scans, will be translated from the JP version, due to NA having.... questionable quality.)

So, LS ( and the actual laws of physics), are treated as a consistent limit in verse. I will collect a few of the statements, here.

■ Time Manipulation: A He can freely speed up or slow down any concepts (including all magical energy, physical movement, thought speed, etc) within his area of effect for as long as he has the magical energy for it. However, the increase or decrease of speed stops at reasonable levels, meaning it's naturally impossible for him to produce perfect stasis, light speed, or time reversal.

- Thia's profile, Fate Strange Fake. (Keep in mind this statement also includes thought speed.)

Even Gods, during the Age of Gods at the peak of their power had to follow the laws of physics, unless they had a particular authority to bypass this.

ケツァル・コアトル:
無理に決まってます！
神にだって質量保存の法則は働くのです！

ケツァル・コアトル:
あんなのはもう大絶滅以前の、
創世記だけの権能です！　宇宙人でも倒せないヨ！


Quetzalcoatl:
"No way that’s possible! Even gods aren’t exempt from the law of conservation of mass!"

Quetzalcoatl:
"That kind of Authority vanished with the Genesis era—the age before the great extinction! Not even aliens could stand a chance against that!"

- Babylonia, Section 18.

ＢＢ:
それこそ光を超える速度が必要です。

ＢＢ:
いえ、電脳化しているので光速に達するのは容易いですけど、霊基を構成する霊子は耐えられません。

ＢＢ:
そんなコトをすればＡ級サーヴァントだろうと霊基は使い物にならなくなります。

ＢＢ: SE.RA.PHから脱出できたとしても、その途中で燃え尽きておしまいです。普通なら。

BB:
"That would require surpassing the speed of light itself!"

BB:
"Though reaching light speed is trivial for a digitized being like me, the spiritrons composing your Saint Graph couldn’t endure it."

BB:
"Attempt such a stunt, and even an A-rank Servant’s Saint Graph would be reduced to scrap!"

BB:
"Even if you escaped SE.RA.PH, you’d burn to ashes mid-transit. At least, under normal circumstances."

She says that a digitized being would have no problem reaching lightspeed ,which is fine, since they technically have no mass, but..... Kiara implies exceeding it should be impossible, even within the bounds of the mooncell.

殺生院キアラ: 銀河の果てに飛ばしたのに??！概念宇宙であれ、一瞬で詰められる距離ではありません！光より速く飛んできたとでも！？

Kiara Sesshouin: I hurled her to the farthest reaches of the galaxy! Even in a conceptual universe, that distance can’t be crossed in an instant!Did she… soar here faster than light itself?!

The Extra Servants dont do this feat with actual speed, but a flavor of time reversal (and in Gil's case, a warp drive.)

"Mmh! I may not fully comprehend it, but I have just overtaken light!
Without a doubt, it is the power of love!
And mark my words—
Should my master face peril, I would turn back time itself to rush to their aid—
For that is the crowning role of the stage and the fiery resolve of a maiden in love!"
「うむ！　よく分からぬが、さきほど光を追い抜いた！　紛れも無く愛の力だな！　そして知るがよい。　主の危機とあらば、時間を遡ってもはせ参じる―――　それが舞台の華役にして、恋する乙女の心意気だ！」

Tamamo makes it even more explicit.

時間の逆行もなんのその、
馬頭星雲から銀河系まで無に短縮！
これがゼロ距離恋愛というものです！


"Even the reversal of time is nothing to it—reducing the distance from the Horsehead Nebula to the galaxy into nothing! This is what is called zero-distance love!"

How this got passed before is honestly, mind-boggling to me. Any amount of critical thinking should lead you to the opposite conclusion, but on to the final scan of this thread, as I believe i've proven my point enough.

U-Olga Marie, and Chaldea, are too slow to outpace ORT's regeneration (it is impossible to outpace it's regeneration within the confines of the laws of physics, so U-Olga had to use one of her Seven Super Authorities, Tachyon Jail, to manipulate FTL particles (Tachyons), to accelerate the time of Chaldea, thus technically moving faster than light.

タキオン操作。時間が止まっているのではなく、私たちは時間より速く行動している、という事ですね。

"Tachyon manipulation. To put it plainly, it’s not that time has stopped—we’re simply moving faster than time itself."

Basically, LS/FTL travel (and even reactions) is impossible for like, 98%+ of the verse.

 

[SweetDao]

Curious about Dyoscuri and Musashi stuff. Didn't they have some pretty clear FTL statement? Maybe I'm misremembering tho

 

[Wankbreaker]

Curious about Dyoscuri and Musashi stuff. Didn't they have some pretty clear FTL statement? Maybe I'm misremembering tho

Dioscuri explicitly had an authority that allowed them to move FTL, so that falls under the exception listed on the thread. But even that posed heavily recoil to their spirit origins.

Even Gods, during the Age of Gods at the peak of their power had to follow the laws of physics, unless they had a particular authority to bypass this.

As for musashi, if her only feat is reacting to them, might either be an outlier, or just relatvistic speeds

 

[Hasty12345]

Agree, this is fairly blatant.

 

[Huesito88]

Are you keeping BB's perception only feat or not?

 

[Elyartaker]

Brother cooked

 

[LazyDaoist]

I don't know what they used to scale here, but i remember Santa Karna have ftl punch

 

[BreezeHM]

Yeah I agree with this. I made a thread in the past about it but didn’t end up going anywhere.

I disagree with Musashi being treated as an outlier, including anyone else that fought against the Dioscuri. Since they were amped by the nano machines. On my phone and at work so I’ll bring scans for this when I get back.

 

[Wankbreaker]

Are you keeping BB's perception only feat or not?

■ Time Manipulation: A He can freely speed up or slow down any concepts (including all magical energy, physical movement, thought speed, etc) within his area of effect for as long as he has the magical energy for it. However, the increase or decrease of speed stops at reasonable levels, meaning it's naturally impossible for him to produce perfect stasis, light speed, or time reversal.

- Thia's profile, Fate Strange Fake. (Keep in mind this statement also includes thought speed.)



so, probablyyyy not.

 

[Tipoima]

I don't know what they used to scale here, but i remember Santa Karna have ftl punch

His profile states that, yes. But it's also a Santa version with the rest of the profile being pretty humorous.
Still, Karna is a high-end demigod, so it wouldn't be too crazy for very minor FTL.

 

[Tipoima]

Yeah I agree with this. I made a thread in the past about it but didn’t end up going anywhere.

I disagree with Musashi being treated as an outlier, including anyone else that fought against the Dioscuri. Since they were amped by the nano machines. On my phone and at work so I’ll bring scans for this when I get back.

I don't think nanomachines are enough to justify this gap. I'd put more weight into Heavenly Eye hax, but I don't remember how well the rest of Chaldea reacted to Dioscuri.

 

[Junkoposter]

Why is this thread a thing.

This is like, just blatantly going against the whole “no CRT’s until the verse revisions are done” agreement. Talked to nobody about this and just randomly dropped it.

 

[Wankbreaker]

Why is this thread a thing.

This is like, just blatantly going against the whole “no CRT’s until the verse revisions are done” agreement. Talked to nobody about this and just randomly dropped it.

https://media.**********.net/attachments/1329850124033069099/1371168732583563324/0A100C98-B4C2-4DD4-B4BF-7C1A145DDEC9.png?ex=682227e4&is=6820d664&hm=bc260a2aa7f2a4fe43fbac32209ced2ff0f0dcb246264273d4410674551bb6a7&

the LS speed cap has also been talked about for months and (mostly) been agreed upon

 

[Junkoposter]

the LS speed cap has also been talked about for months and (mostly) been agreed upon

My brother in Christ half the people in the server aren't even Nasu supporters (one of them literally said “what is a Nasuverse”).

You didn’t talk to any of the actual people doing things, you just randomly @ everyone’d a vote that you alone decided to make. Heck, making this thread got your mod status on the server revoked again (this is like the 4th time btw).

 

[Re5yh]

Hi, I'm here

 

[Ebihara]

This is going against what was determined https://vsbattles.com/threads/type-moon-scorched-earth.176091/ even Agnaa said that before any fate/nasu/etc stuff comes back there should be a larger thread. To act like a discord poll offsite that involves non site members ability to vote on as repersetinve of what supporters want is blatantly disingenuous bordering on deceitful. This should be closed.

 

[Re5yh]

Might been a little mistake

 

[SuperSonicTL]

Based

 

[Junkoposter]

https://media.**********.net/attachments/1329850124033069099/1371168732583563324/0A100C98-B4C2-4DD4-B4BF-7C1A145DDEC9.png?ex=682227e4&is=6820d664&hm=bc260a2aa7f2a4fe43fbac32209ced2ff0f0dcb246264273d4410674551bb6a7&

the LS speed cap has also been talked about for months and (mostly) been agreed upon

Forgot to mention that this screenshot is leaving out context.

The poll was about if cosmology threads should be done first, because they talked about posting a hyper Root thread in the general chat at that point, the people said no, and they insisted with the poll.

This is just like, blatantly deceitful.

 

[Wankbreaker]

Forgot to mention that this screenshot is leaving out context.

The poll was about if cosmology threads should be done first, because they talked about posting a hyper Root thread in the general chat at that point, the people said no, and they insisted with the poll.


This is just like, blatantly deceitful

The point is, the idea of preliminary threads weren't a new concept.

the issue of the speed cap has been discussed in the server, with most people actually present agreeing with it.

the " SHUT IT DOWN!!!!!!" attitude seems excessive.

 

[VoidGoji]

What server is that?

 

[Junkoposter]

The point is, the idea of preliminary threads weren't a new concept.

the issue of the speed cap has been discussed in the server, with most people actually present agreeing with it.

the " SHUT IT DOWN!!!!!!" attitude seems excessive.

Rules are rules, you are not exempt from them just because a bunch of random Discord non-supporters voted on a poll that you solely made without input from any of the people who actually support the verse and do stuff for it. The people in charge of the server demoted you (again, for like the 4th time) because of this, so they obviously don’t agree with you either.

And that’s not even bringing up the fact that you posted this thread on Mothers Day, where the vast majority of people who would be calling you out for doing this are just to busy do so.

 

[ShinMaximillion]

This is going against what was determined https://vsbattles.com/threads/type-moon-scorched-earth.176091/ even Agnaa said that before any fate/nasu/etc stuff comes back there should be a larger thread. To act like a discord poll offsite that involves non site members ability to vote on as repersetinve of what supporters want is blatantly disingenuous bordering on deceitful. This should be closed.

This^

Although the wording is harsh, I agree. I don't think it's a good idea to throw in the thread all of a sudden without warning; thread rules are thread rules. The opinion of a vast majority of server (which none of the people working on pages bothered with to even talk about regarding it) and people who are there simply to view about Nasuverse scaling, don't really matter. Not to the point you'd ignore a rule.

 

[Wankbreaker]

Rules are rules, you are not exempt from them just because a bunch of random Discord non-supporters voted on a poll that you solely made without input from any of the people who actually support the verse and do stuff for it. The people in charge of the server demoted you (again, for like the 4th time) because of this, so they obviously don’t agree with you either.

And that’s not even bringing up the fact that you posted this thread on Mothers Day, where the vast majority of people who would be calling you out for doing this are just to busy do so.

Does this thread suggest to bring back the profiles? Or to set the framework for any future profiles.


The latter breaks no rule.


I find it annoying how half the thread is filled with the shut it down talk instead of the actual topic.

Like, this is no different from the attempts of using the rules as a cover to silence my thoughts on type-moon when i first made an account here.

 

[Re5yh]

Does this thread suggest to bring back the profiles? Or to set the framework for any future profiles.


The latter breaks no rule.


I find it annoying how half the thread is filled with the shut it down talk instead of the actual topic.

because this is the first CRT for a recent deleted verse

 

[KLOL506]

@Agnaa @LephyrTheRevanchist @Qawsedf234 Tagging you guys to bring some semblance of calm to this thread.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Based on what I've seen and going back over stuff since I also just so happen to be in that server...

Yeah no shut this thread down, that's my two cents

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

This is going against what was determined https://vsbattles.com/threads/type-moon-scorched-earth.176091/ even Agnaa said that before any fate/nasu/etc stuff comes back there should be a larger thread. To act like a discord poll offsite that involves non site members ability to vote on as repersetinve of what supporters want is blatantly disingenuous bordering on deceitful. This should be closed.

I will wait for Agnaa's thoughts, but seems like things are leaning for this to get closed.

 

[Wankbreaker]

i'll just leave one final note.

It makes way less sense for something like this to be at the end of profile construction, when scaling is pretty much near established
rather than at the start of the whole thing.


At this point, discuss whether the proposal has any merit
rather than trying to quash it.
it's not going away. like, the concept of this proposal is absolutely not going away and fading into obscurity. It's an overarching verse limit.

 

[Junkoposter]

Does this thread suggest to bring back the profiles? Or to set the framework for any future profiles.

The latter breaks no rule.

I find it annoying how half the thread is filled with the shut it down talk instead of the actual topic.

Like, this is no different from the attempts of using the rules as a cover to silence my thoughts on type-moon when i first made an account here.

Stop playing the victim.

You are blatantly breaking the rules, and have been blatantly dishonest (see the full context of screenshot she posted earlier).

Like I said earlier, the poll was about if cosmology threads should be done first, because Wank talked about posting a hyper Root thread in the general chat at that point, the people said no, and Wank insisted with the poll.

Additionally, you have barely done a single thing for actually making profiles or sandboxes the entire time you’ve been active on that server. Hell, people on that server have still yet to finish Angel Notes. All you have been doing is pushing agenda, and also sneakily banning and timing out people who disagree with you on said server when you had mod privileges.

 

[Wankbreaker]

Stop playing the victim.

You are blatantly breaking the rules, and have been blatantly dishonest (see the full context of screenshot she posted earlier).

Breaking what rule?

Like I said earlier, the poll was about if cosmology threads should be done first, because Wank talked about posting a hyper Root thread in the general chat at that point, the people said no, and Wank insisted with the poll.

I never said "hyper Root",just " a Root" thread.

Additionally, you have barely done a single thing for actually making profiles or sandboxes the entire time you’ve been active on that server. Hell, people on that server have still yet to finish Angel Notes. All you have been doing is pushing agenda.

i've been finding/translating the verse's scans under a collection the entire time (part of which,are in this thread)? That, and my main line of interest, is the non-fate profiles, which are being saved for later.

you're not even anymore involved than the average person who voted on the poll.

 

[KLOL506]

Guys, calm down and just wait for more staff to show up.

@Theglassman12 @AbaddonTheDisappointment @Emirp sumitpo @KingTempest @UchihaSlayer96 @Ultima_Reality @Maverick_Zero_X @Sir_Ovens @Celestial_Pegasus @Elizhaa @Planck69 Your assistance is needed here

 

[lol126]

Does this apply to grand servants and other beings like sefar and the machine gods? Because it’s kinda explicitly stated that chaos “launched an attack faster then light” and that both Romulus and Ares could move fast enough to catch it, so they don’t really need a specific authority to move that fast.

 

[CloverDragon03]

i'll just leave one final note.

It makes way less sense for something like this to be at the end of profile construction, when scaling is pretty much near established
rather than at the start of the whole thing.


At this point, discuss whether the proposal has any merit
rather than trying to quash it.
it's not going away. like, the concept of this proposal is absolutely not going away and fading into obscurity. It's an overarching verse limit.

That's not your decision to make. I will argue for the thread's closure if I feel it necessary. Naturally, though, it will fall to the evaluating staff's discretion, so I'll leave it at that

 

[KingTempest]

Guys, calm down and just wait for more staff to show up.

@Theglassman12 @AbaddonTheDisappointment @Emirp sumitpo @KingTempest @UchihaSlayer96 @Ultima_Reality @Maverick_Zero_X @Sir_Ovens @Celestial_Pegasus @Elizhaa @Planck69 Your assistance is needed here

I've been su... damn

Proposal looks fine but the thread shouldn't be open from what I know

 

[Migue79]

Stop playing the victim.

You are blatantly breaking the rules, and have been blatantly dishonest (see the full context of screenshot she posted earlier).

Like I said earlier, the poll was about if cosmology threads should be done first, because Wank talked about posting a hyper Root thread in the general chat at that point, the people said no, and Wank insisted with the poll.

Additionally, you have barely done a single thing for actually making profiles or sandboxes the entire time you’ve been active on that server. Hell, people on that server have still yet to finish Angel Notes. All you have been doing is pushing agenda, and also sneakily banning and timing out people who disagree with you on said server when you had mod privileges.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Thread seems overall fine, but no, I do not appreciate jumping the gun and going against the thread that nuked Nasuverse from the wiki... also, the research isn't even done yet.

Like, do I even need to say why that's shitty? The notes are incomplete, thus, the scaling is incomplete... in fact, do you even know where you'll put Servant tiers once you remove FTL?! Where's the suggested alternative? You don't downgrade something and not at least give some idea of where people should put their speed at!

 

[Wankbreaker]

Thread seems overall fine, but no, I do not appreciate jumping the gun and going against the thread that nuked Nasuverse from the wiki... also, the research isn't even done yet.

Like, do I even need to say why that's shitty? The notes are incomplete, thus, the scaling is incomplete... in fact, do you even know where you'll put Servant tiers once you remove FTL?! Where's the suggested alternative? You don't downgrade something and not at least give some idea of where people should put their speed at!

Isn't the usual assumption to at least place them down to what they were before?

( which from edit logs, seems to be rele)

 

[DaReaperMan]

Isn't the usual assumption to at least place them down to what they were before?

( which from edit logs, seems to be rele)

Then put that in your OP. And what the back-up for Relativistic anyway? Do you even know?

Hell, have you even researched what needs to be researched yourself?

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Forgot to mention that this screenshot is leaving out context.

The poll was about if cosmology threads should be done first, because they talked about posting a hyper Root thread in the general chat at that point, the people said no, and they insisted with the poll.

This is just like, blatantly deceitful.

To further add to this, the original poll purpose was actually related to this bomb you suddenly dropped about instantly making a tier 1 crt saying that the Root = World Soul, which then ignited a discussion for hours where most opposed such an idea (ergo it wasn't previously agreed by a supermajority as you indicated). In a similar manner, this new speed thread forbidding a certain rating wasn't discussed and universally agreed upon like that one, the op unilaterally created this thread without consulting people, and that's why right now they are facing the consequences of their actions in discord.

Because this isn't even the first time this has happened, anyone can consult @CRIMPSUMPSKI2 or @ShinMaximillion, who are in charge of the discord server where the revisions were supposed to happen, as they have complained multiple times that Wank just abused their position to try and suddenly push for their agenda without previously consulting anyone, and how they had to deal with that mess to stop it before chaos spread (something that this time happened because they weren't even consulted).

But this isn't the only violation of the rules that the op has done, for they also used their position in the discord server to actively silence users that opposed them, as it's the case with the very known case when they banned the user Stellar in the middle of a discussion they were losing (and people didn't notice until sometime after when asked the banned user and looked at the server history) or the somewhat recent timeout of Eternity who also opposed their points.

And like this there are a lot of other abuses of power in the discord server done by the op.

Additionally, I would like to complement that a good chunk of the server consist of people who actually aren't knowledgeable in Nasuverse or just don't have any intention of actively helping out with the revisions, as so far the users gathering and creating sandboxes/blogs for revisions are just a few (around a dozen), compared to the the literal 154 users currently in the server who haven't contributed at all. The purpose of the server was to gather the people who would work on going through the different series again to gather feats while making sandboxes. Regarding this point, there were recently some discussions among the members working on the profiles, and the conclusion was that the server should be cleaned up of those unhelpful users, so by using this case as an example, some more reforms are probably going to be put in place.



Btw, dropping such a bomb thread out of nowhere in Mother's Day is comically evil, attacking when people don't expect it and can't defend.