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Naruto to Boruto Discussion Thread

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lol
 
Shadowbokunohero said:
kaguya works thematically well, given Madara was a victim of the cycle itself, him being sealed away or defeated by force doesn't really resolve a lot of his thematic framework, the issue with Kaguya is two fold.

1. She isnt as interesting as Madara as a character
2. the story needed to build up to her reveal more organically.
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Honestly, I think there should've been a full arc with Hagoromo and Hamura + Ashura and Indra. They packed it into too little space.

Plus, we didn't get enough Hagoromo lore, that guy was kinda just mentioned a couple times and thrown at us last second.
 
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HelloThere1089 said:
I understand that you are frustrated at the "Boruto is a genjutsu" BS, but naw, introducing Kaguya absolutely wasn't required. It definitely ruined the ending a bit if not more. That part about Madara not being strong enough could have been fixed pretty easily had Kishimoto decided to make him the final villain. But Madara being a final villain would have been way better than what we got. Kaguya should have been a movie villain or a Boruto villain in all honesty. She is only appreciated because of powerscalling. In terms of story, she is bland and abrupt. She doesn't have the impact and presence of Madara. She is definitely a downgrade.
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Bland and abrupt is a bit much. Honestly, though, I feel like Madara being the final villain is just flat out bad because that would mean the whole "curse of hatred" shit was basically true. I think Kaguya, while she is a lot better than people say, is, of course, just shoehorned in, but even if he would be better, Madara would also suck balls.
 
SlendVeny said:
Bland and abrupt is a bit much.
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But...that's kinda what she is tho. She is not interesting and she came without much setup.
SlendVeny said:
Honestly, though, I feel like Madara being the final villain is just flat out bad because that would mean the whole "curse of hatred" shit was basically true.
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If I had it my way, the Asura and Indra reincarnation BS wouldn't even be a thing. So it doesn't matter.
SlendVeny said:
I think Kaguya, while she is a lot better than people say, is, of course, just shoehorned in, but even if he would be better, Madara would also suck balls.
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I just couldn't make sense of this statement tbh. What do you mean?
 
HelloThere1089 said:
But...that's kinda what she is tho. She is not interesting and she came without much setup.
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I found her role in her sons' backstory quite interesting. She also presented some pretty cool abilities, and her fighting Sasuke and Naruto, but simultaneously being distraught over it, was an interesting direction. I will agree that there wasn't much setup, unless you count the Kaguya Clan.
HelloThere1089 said:
If I had it my way, the Asura and Indra reincarnation BS wouldn't even be a thing. So it doesn't matter.
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Curse of Hatred is an Uchiha thing.
HelloThere1089 said:
I just couldn't make sense of this statement tbh. What do you mean?
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Well. There's a metaphorical interpretation in which I'm saying he would not live up to expectations, and a drastically literal one.
 
SlendVeny said:
I found her role in her sons' backstory quite interesting.
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Isn't this filler?
SlendVeny said:
She also presented some pretty cool abilities, and her fighting Sasuke and Naruto, but simultaneously being distraught over it, was an interesting direction. I will agree that there wasn't much setup, unless you count the Kaguya Clan.
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Ok I guess. Not enough for me. Her loving her sons while hating them for their betrayal is not that deep. At least not without the context that Boruto later adds. Also I would hardly call Kaguya Clan "much setup".
SlendVeny said:
Curse of Hatred is an Uchiha thing.
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Isn't that a thing regardless of Kaguya then? I don't remember Tobirama ever being manipulated by Zetsu.
SlendVeny said:
Well. There's a metaphorical interpretation in which I'm saying he would not live up to expectations, and a drastically literal one.
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Not really. I doubt people would have an issue if Naruto and Sasuke had to seal Madara just like Hagoromo and Hamura had to seal Kaguya. Madara by the time he activated IT, had already lived up to everyone's expectations. All he needed was a fitting end. The author could have easily powered him up to Kaguya's level and from there it would play out similarly. Maybe add a bit of Talk no Jutsu to debunk his worldview. Actually nobody really needed to debunk Madara. It could have been left as is and it would have been great.
 
HelloThere1089 said:
Isn't this filler?
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Nah, the short bit Hags mentioned was kinda neat.
HelloThere1089 said:
Ok I guess. Not enough for me. Her loving her sons while hating them for their betrayal is not that deep. At least not without the context that Boruto later adds. Also I would hardly call Kaguya Clan "much setup".
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Yeah, I said there wasn't much.
HelloThere1089 said:
Isn't that a thing regardless of Kaguya then? I don't remember Tobirama ever being manipulated by Zetsu.
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Yeah, but it feels Madara being the final, "this is his fault," big bad lends credence to the idea. I know they could've written around that, but I promise you it would not be different enough from the Obito fight for people to like it. Making even the "allmighty" Madara a victim of a cycle of manipulation stemming from one primordial being is a good move in my book. Say what you will about Kaguya, but Zetsu was a goated villain.
HelloThere1089 said:
Not really. I doubt people would have an issue if Naruto and Sasuke had to seal Madara just like Hagoromo and Hamura had to seal Kaguya. Madara by the time he activated IT, had already lived up to everyone's expectations. All he needed was a fitting end. The author could have easily powered him up to Kaguya's level and from there it would play out similarly. Maybe add a bit of Talk no Jutsu to debunk his worldview. Actually nobody really needed to debunk Madara. It could have been left as is and it would have been great.
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The thing is, he was already doing the same thing with that conversation where he was like "I'm gonna be king of the ninja pirates" and Obito was like "dont come inside me," which is Juubito's most memorable line. Him talking down Madara wouldn't really work, because Hashirama couldn't do the same thing, and I promise you Top M cares less about a kid's opinion. While Madara was getting jumped by Team 7 and all the Edo Hokage, my man would just see this as the world ruining things for him again.
 
SlendVeny said:
Nah, the short bit Hags mentioned was kinda neat.
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Ah ok.
SlendVeny said:
Yeah, but it feels Madara being the final, "this is his fault," big bad lends credence to the idea. I know they could've written around that, but I promise you it would not be different enough from the Obito fight for people to like it. Making even the "allmighty" Madara a victim of a cycle of manipulation stemming from one primordial being is a good move in my book. Say what you will about Kaguya, but Zetsu was a goated villain.
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You misunderstand me. I do understand that Madara being a victim of manipulation has a lot of potential. But imo seeing the way it was handled, it would have been a net positive if Madara was the final villain even if there was a thematically better villain available. They simply didn't set Kaguya up well enough for that. Themes, messages and morals aren't the only components that determine quality of a show imo.
SlendVeny said:
The thing is, he was already doing the same thing with that conversation where he was like "I'm gonna be king of the ninja pirates" and Obito was like "dont come inside me," which is Juubito's most memorable line. Him talking down Madara wouldn't really work, because Hashirama couldn't do the same thing, and I promise you Top M cares less about a kid's opinion. While Madara was getting jumped by Team 7 and all the Edo Hokage, my man would just see this as the world ruining things for him again.
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I agree that Naruto using TnJ on Madara would be repetitive. Especially since he will do it again against Sasuke. But that's not what my point is. They could have left Madaras ideology unchallenged and it still would have worked. The issues that Madara pointed out in their world are very real (even though his expectations are kinda unrealistic). The audience doesn't need to agree with his solution really. They are free to choose their stance. The fact would be that Naruto and co won by sealing him so he loses his right to mold the world according to his ideology.
SlendVeny said:
It was laundry day
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Or they wear Orange and Yellow underwear respectively.
 
Testarossa002 said:
Source for this?
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I suppose you could just say it refers to her own history, but that would still means her strength in this moment should be above when she damaged Kaguya
Image

Arc7Kuroi said:
“Only a few years”, same few years that has many characters get wildly stronger. There’s no consistency for a younger weaker Sakura just cuz her older self has better scaling.
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I'm just saying if she has no antifeats from the point where she starts getting Six Paths level scaling, there's no problem with saying her strength at EoS is her normal level of strength from then on. It's not like she particularly appears to get a mental amp, which is obvious in some cases like Naruto when Obito died or Sai when Deidara egged him on
 
MinatoSparkle said:
I'm just saying if she has no antifeats from the point where she starts getting Six Paths level scaling, there's no problem with saying her strength at EoS is her normal level of strength from then on. It's not like she particularly appears to get a mental amp, which is obvious in some cases like Naruto when Obito died or Sai when Deidara egged him on
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She straight up does tho. She goes from like KCMish level to SP level when she has her “I’m a woman too” moment. It’s a textbook mental amp contextually. There’s no reason to assume she randomly got stronger in the couple of minutes she was watching everyone fight. Not to mention the same Sakura that fought Kaguya got lowdiffed by Juubidara, who’s Kaguya’s far inferior. Like let’s not turn the thinkers off
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
She straight up does tho. She goes from like KCMish level to SP level when she has her “I’m a woman too” moment. It’s a textbook mental amp contextually. There’s no reason to assume she randomly got stronger in the couple of minutes she was watching everyone fight. Not to mention the same Sakura that fought Kaguya got lowdiffed by Juubidara, who’s Kaguya’s far inferior. Like let’s not turn the thinkers off
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She doesnt though, databook compares her form she in to kcm and ems. And the im a woman too moment is text book surprise attack and directly where the bygagun has a weak spot. Unless you want to claim 100 healings sakurs whos = to kcm and ems is = to SP characters
Nvm I cant read.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
Sakura gets like a Kaguya level mental amp at best, she’s not always at that level of strength
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Nah, you’re too generous. That punch did more damage than an SR Amped Punch did to a WEAKER Kaguya. It is truly an outlier. And then Sakura even admits she can't trade blows at the end 💀
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
She straight up does tho. She goes from like KCMish level to SP level when she has her “I’m a woman too” moment. It’s a textbook mental amp contextually. There’s no reason to assume she randomly got stronger in the couple of minutes she was watching everyone fight. Not to mention the same Sakura that fought Kaguya got lowdiffed by Juubidara, who’s Kaguya’s far inferior. Like let’s not turn the thinkers off
Click to expand...
But it's not just that one moment, throughout the entire fight and even arguably in the Juubidara fight she's SP level, a plot amp is more reasonable than a mental amp given the circumstances. Also she did intentionally act as the diversion, so I wouldn't say her being stabbed means much. She even punched him while shaking faster than Naruto or Sasuke could reach her
 
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