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Worse than ending the manga off with an old lusting woman getting stomped by Team 7 ?Ending the manga off with an old man getting stomped by Team 7 would honestly be worse.
Honestly, I think there should've been a full arc with Hagoromo and Hamura + Ashura and Indra. They packed it into too little space.kaguya works thematically well, given Madara was a victim of the cycle itself, him being sealed away or defeated by force doesn't really resolve a lot of his thematic framework, the issue with Kaguya is two fold.
1. She isnt as interesting as Madara as a character
2. the story needed to build up to her reveal more organically.
Bland and abrupt is a bit much. Honestly, though, I feel like Madara being the final villain is just flat out bad because that would mean the whole "curse of hatred" shit was basically true. I think Kaguya, while she is a lot better than people say, is, of course, just shoehorned in, but even if he would be better, Madara would also suck balls.I understand that you are frustrated at the "Boruto is a genjutsu" BS, but naw, introducing Kaguya absolutely wasn't required. It definitely ruined the ending a bit if not more. That part about Madara not being strong enough could have been fixed pretty easily had Kishimoto decided to make him the final villain. But Madara being a final villain would have been way better than what we got. Kaguya should have been a movie villain or a Boruto villain in all honesty. She is only appreciated because of powerscalling. In terms of story, she is bland and abrupt. She doesn't have the impact and presence of Madara. She is definitely a downgrade.
She absolutely wasn't getting stomped, and that was Team 7 + Obito, which is frankly 25% more people. To be honest, Kaguya could've done a lot better if Black Zetsu wasn't so underutilized.Worse than ending the manga off with an old lusting woman getting stomped by Team 7 ?
But...that's kinda what she is tho. She is not interesting and she came without much setup.Bland and abrupt is a bit much.
If I had it my way, the Asura and Indra reincarnation BS wouldn't even be a thing. So it doesn't matter.Honestly, though, I feel like Madara being the final villain is just flat out bad because that would mean the whole "curse of hatred" shit was basically true.
I just couldn't make sense of this statement tbh. What do you mean?I think Kaguya, while she is a lot better than people say, is, of course, just shoehorned in, but even if he would be better, Madara would also suck balls.
I found her role in her sons' backstory quite interesting. She also presented some pretty cool abilities, and her fighting Sasuke and Naruto, but simultaneously being distraught over it, was an interesting direction. I will agree that there wasn't much setup, unless you count the Kaguya Clan.But...that's kinda what she is tho. She is not interesting and she came without much setup.
Curse of Hatred is an Uchiha thing.If I had it my way, the Asura and Indra reincarnation BS wouldn't even be a thing. So it doesn't matter.
Well. There's a metaphorical interpretation in which I'm saying he would not live up to expectations, and a drastically literal one.I just couldn't make sense of this statement tbh. What do you mean?
Isn't this filler?I found her role in her sons' backstory quite interesting.
Ok I guess. Not enough for me. Her loving her sons while hating them for their betrayal is not that deep. At least not without the context that Boruto later adds. Also I would hardly call Kaguya Clan "much setup".She also presented some pretty cool abilities, and her fighting Sasuke and Naruto, but simultaneously being distraught over it, was an interesting direction. I will agree that there wasn't much setup, unless you count the Kaguya Clan.
Isn't that a thing regardless of Kaguya then? I don't remember Tobirama ever being manipulated by Zetsu.Curse of Hatred is an Uchiha thing.
Not really. I doubt people would have an issue if Naruto and Sasuke had to seal Madara just like Hagoromo and Hamura had to seal Kaguya. Madara by the time he activated IT, had already lived up to everyone's expectations. All he needed was a fitting end. The author could have easily powered him up to Kaguya's level and from there it would play out similarly. Maybe add a bit of Talk no Jutsu to debunk his worldview. Actually nobody really needed to debunk Madara. It could have been left as is and it would have been great.Well. There's a metaphorical interpretation in which I'm saying he would not live up to expectations, and a drastically literal one.
they inverted colors of their originals it seemsAre we seriously going to get color coded Shinju?
Does that logic follow for Bug and Moegi tho. I don't remember Bug wearing orange or Moegi wearing yellow.they inverted colors of their originals it seems
idkDoes that logic follow for Bug and Moegi tho. I don't remember Bug wearing orange or Moegi wearing yellow.
Nah, the short bit Hags mentioned was kinda neat.Isn't this filler?
Yeah, I said there wasn't much.Ok I guess. Not enough for me. Her loving her sons while hating them for their betrayal is not that deep. At least not without the context that Boruto later adds. Also I would hardly call Kaguya Clan "much setup".
Yeah, but it feels Madara being the final, "this is his fault," big bad lends credence to the idea. I know they could've written around that, but I promise you it would not be different enough from the Obito fight for people to like it. Making even the "allmighty" Madara a victim of a cycle of manipulation stemming from one primordial being is a good move in my book. Say what you will about Kaguya, but Zetsu was a goated villain.Isn't that a thing regardless of Kaguya then? I don't remember Tobirama ever being manipulated by Zetsu.
The thing is, he was already doing the same thing with that conversation where he was like "I'm gonna be king of the ninja pirates" and Obito was like "dont come inside me," which is Juubito's most memorable line. Him talking down Madara wouldn't really work, because Hashirama couldn't do the same thing, and I promise you Top M cares less about a kid's opinion. While Madara was getting jumped by Team 7 and all the Edo Hokage, my man would just see this as the world ruining things for him again.Not really. I doubt people would have an issue if Naruto and Sasuke had to seal Madara just like Hagoromo and Hamura had to seal Kaguya. Madara by the time he activated IT, had already lived up to everyone's expectations. All he needed was a fitting end. The author could have easily powered him up to Kaguya's level and from there it would play out similarly. Maybe add a bit of Talk no Jutsu to debunk his worldview. Actually nobody really needed to debunk Madara. It could have been left as is and it would have been great.
It was laundry dayDoes that logic follow for Bug and Moegi tho. I don't remember Bug wearing orange or Moegi wearing yellow.
Ah ok.Nah, the short bit Hags mentioned was kinda neat.
You misunderstand me. I do understand that Madara being a victim of manipulation has a lot of potential. But imo seeing the way it was handled, it would have been a net positive if Madara was the final villain even if there was a thematically better villain available. They simply didn't set Kaguya up well enough for that. Themes, messages and morals aren't the only components that determine quality of a show imo.Yeah, but it feels Madara being the final, "this is his fault," big bad lends credence to the idea. I know they could've written around that, but I promise you it would not be different enough from the Obito fight for people to like it. Making even the "allmighty" Madara a victim of a cycle of manipulation stemming from one primordial being is a good move in my book. Say what you will about Kaguya, but Zetsu was a goated villain.
I agree that Naruto using TnJ on Madara would be repetitive. Especially since he will do it again against Sasuke. But that's not what my point is. They could have left Madaras ideology unchallenged and it still would have worked. The issues that Madara pointed out in their world are very real (even though his expectations are kinda unrealistic). The audience doesn't need to agree with his solution really. They are free to choose their stance. The fact would be that Naruto and co won by sealing him so he loses his right to mold the world according to his ideology.The thing is, he was already doing the same thing with that conversation where he was like "I'm gonna be king of the ninja pirates" and Obito was like "dont come inside me," which is Juubito's most memorable line. Him talking down Madara wouldn't really work, because Hashirama couldn't do the same thing, and I promise you Top M cares less about a kid's opinion. While Madara was getting jumped by Team 7 and all the Edo Hokage, my man would just see this as the world ruining things for him again.
Or they wear Orange and Yellow underwear respectively.It was laundry day
It's nothing, I've seen people say that gojo has passive space manipulation, passive time manipulation and plot armora JJK fan got gojo at 16D
nah this is another level of crazy. he says the JJK universe is 4D because of the toji worm and has 3D time and all civillian are higher dimensional beingsIt's nothing, I've seen people say that gojo has passive space manipulation, passive time manipulation and plot armor
Mike Tyson getting slammed by a random JJK 7D puppy is crazy.nah this is another level of crazy. he says the JJK universe is 4D because of the toji worm and has 3D time and all civillian are higher dimensional beings
Debatable (also pretty sure he was the only clone at the time so half)I hate how people try to scale War Arc Sakura to 1/3rd SPSM Naruto via clones. She’s not 1/3rd him.
I mean she's also stated to have unparalleled physical strength in the Blank Period so kinda consistentSakura gets like a Kaguya level mental amp at best, she’s not always at that level of strength
Sakura gets like a Kaguya level mental amp at best, she’s not always at that level of strength
Yeah this ain’t Blank Period Sakura.I mean she's also stated to have unparalleled physical strength in the Blank Period so kinda consistent
Only a few years laterYeah this ain’t Blank Period Sakura.
Source for this?I mean she's also stated to have unparalleled physical strength in the Blank Period so kinda consistent
“Only a few years”, same few years that has many characters get wildly stronger. There’s no consistency for a younger weaker Sakura just cuz her older self has better scaling.Only a few years later
I suppose you could just say it refers to her own history, but that would still means her strength in this moment should be above when she damaged KaguyaSource for this?
I'm just saying if she has no antifeats from the point where she starts getting Six Paths level scaling, there's no problem with saying her strength at EoS is her normal level of strength from then on. It's not like she particularly appears to get a mental amp, which is obvious in some cases like Naruto when Obito died or Sai when Deidara egged him on“Only a few years”, same few years that has many characters get wildly stronger. There’s no consistency for a younger weaker Sakura just cuz her older self has better scaling.
She straight up does tho. She goes from like KCMish level to SP level when she has her “I’m a woman too” moment. It’s a textbook mental amp contextually. There’s no reason to assume she randomly got stronger in the couple of minutes she was watching everyone fight. Not to mention the same Sakura that fought Kaguya got lowdiffed by Juubidara, who’s Kaguya’s far inferior. Like let’s not turn the thinkers offI'm just saying if she has no antifeats from the point where she starts getting Six Paths level scaling, there's no problem with saying her strength at EoS is her normal level of strength from then on. It's not like she particularly appears to get a mental amp, which is obvious in some cases like Naruto when Obito died or Sai when Deidara egged him on
"far higher with hysterical strength"
She straight up does tho. She goes from like KCMish level to SP level when she has her “I’m a woman too” moment. It’s a textbook mental amp contextually. There’s no reason to assume she randomly got stronger in the couple of minutes she was watching everyone fight. Not to mention the same Sakura that fought Kaguya got lowdiffed by Juubidara, who’s Kaguya’s far inferior. Like let’s not turn the thinkers off
I knowNvm I cant read.
Nah, you’re too generous. That punch did more damage than an SR Amped Punch did to a WEAKER Kaguya. It is truly an outlier. And then Sakura even admits she can't trade blows at the endSakura gets like a Kaguya level mental amp at best, she’s not always at that level of strength
But it's not just that one moment, throughout the entire fight and even arguably in the Juubidara fight she's SP level, a plot amp is more reasonable than a mental amp given the circumstances. Also she did intentionally act as the diversion, so I wouldn't say her being stabbed means much. She even punched him while shaking faster than Naruto or Sasuke could reach herShe straight up does tho. She goes from like KCMish level to SP level when she has her “I’m a woman too” moment. It’s a textbook mental amp contextually. There’s no reason to assume she randomly got stronger in the couple of minutes she was watching everyone fight. Not to mention the same Sakura that fought Kaguya got lowdiffed by Juubidara, who’s Kaguya’s far inferior. Like let’s not turn the thinkers off