- 12,001
- 16,711
Honestly, at this point the series should be renamed "Boruto: Retcons Next Generations"
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Naruto to Boruto Discussion Thread
- 152
- 14
1. I have seen the game, theres no universal feats
2. Yes, momo didnt have a choice he was forced ti retreat, darui and garra were literatlly pushing and forcing him to run away
If momo was stronger he woulsnt have ran away.
When madaea vs the gokage did he run away ??? No je fought head to head
When madara fought all the tailed beast did he run away??? Noo he fought them head to head
Like i said and like its shown tje only time momo fought head to head without retreating was when he absorbed kinshiki. Then in a blink of an eye he stomped the 4 kages and fought sasuke and naruto head to head.
If he was stronger than darui and garra thats what he would have done in the beginning
3. Show me a feat that was above multi continental before kaguya appeared. There isnt any
Again placing kaguya ETSB at any level higher thab planet level would be inconsistent with the overall feats that thru your head
4. Ok i concede to this point but your arguement all revolves around a hypothesis statement which even chojo says the enemy is too vague
Actual showing of enermy strength > hypothesis statement
5. How am i lying when kyuubi and naruto stated this. These are offical statement that says naruto grown weaker in general
Ok how show proof that naruto increases his chakra by mediating, studying etc. I want panel evidence
6. Im not stupid enough to imply or suggest that garra, darui, chojo and rock kage have surpassed madara and haishrama.
Not even tobirama, hirzuen, 3 sannin, sakumo, hanzo or even minato in sage mode + kurama mode surpassed haishrama and madara but yet you believe and expect others to believe that 4 kages that arent even special in anyway managed to do what other prodigies amd genius failed to do. Yeh good luck with that
This has nothing to do with madara vs adult naruto and sasuke.
Naruto and sasuke at this point would be able to beat rikdou madara given their more custom to their ability.
This is about the new 4 kages who your saying are stronger than alive madara and alive haishrama during the clan wars
Last edited:
- 316
- 917
The most useless power up ever lmao
- 202
- 39
I won’t waste time reading pointless essays from a guy who’s basing his claims off of a false interpretation of momo “running” have fun with your below kage level momoshiki headcannon.
- 10,851
- 16,130
Where's Code?
- 12,001
- 16,711
Gone.....reduced to atoms
- 12,005
- 11,629
23:59
so you guys can't answer my arguments
00:00
I wont waste time readinf this
- 21,496
- 30,837
Not the one that did it, but probably the fact that Kid Kakashi scales to people that scale to nobody
- 12,001
- 16,711
It's a pretty pointless key, and just cluttered the profile unnecessarily imo. Good riddance I say.
- 5,462
- 1,862
It was agreed that Kakashi, Obito, and Nagato would have their kid keys removed due to no feats to scale them from.
- 15,592
- 16,260
#No
- 12,001
- 16,711
#Add_Prime_EMS_SageMode_Itachi_Key
- 15,592
- 16,260
#NejiDiedForOurSins
- 12,001
- 16,711
#ButHeSureAsHellDidn'tDieForBoruto
- 15,592
- 16,260
#WellHeMainlyDiedForHinata’sSinsAndThatIncludesBoruto
- 202
- 39
I only answer competent rebuttals M3X, and you shouldn’t be talking you can’t even give a valid reason when you disagree with someone, you just throw a fit and leave . I still have that power cliffing statement of yours too 
. I still have that power cliffing statement of yours too 
- 21,496
- 30,837
I don't think I've ever heard someone say M3X can't talk, oof
- 152
- 14
Pretty amusing that you couldnt provide a single shred of evidence beside the point i conceded too.
There's a word for people like you and its called a wanker. You wank the verse to unbelievable levels and its amusing that all you do is provide head canons with no official sources backing you up
- 21,496
- 30,837
Time to get involved
I'll put my two sense in.
Idk you in real life, you don't know me in real life.
I'm not gonna feed this bs when nothing is gonna happen from it.
You never explained why it would be AP. You connected strength w/ thread level and never proved it.
You noted his absorption not being an issue and how he got beaten by taijutsu alone.
That was the point.
Kaguya doesn't even use taijutsu. In fact, scaling off of other Juubi Jins, she's vulnerable to taijutsu.
We know Momoshiki starts fights off with absorbing. Here, here, here, here, here, and here. He even tried to absorb Naruto's rasenshuriken in the anime.
Every time he attacks post absorption, it's using ninjutsu he absorbed. Here, here, and here.
The Naruto Gaiden series went from May to July of 2015 while the Boruto Movie came out in August of 2015, so the argument of "he didn't use that when Sasuke said it" is invalid since these are characters that we've never seen before that statement.
Let's get down to business shall we.
Sasuke says his statement on chapter 5 of Naruto Gaiden. He says this because Kaguya was amassing an army full of White Zetsus (which is on the same page, consistent with the showing).
Momoshiki was revealed in Chapter 2 of Boruto. No punches or kicks are thrown at that point in time. Sasuke had no idea of what he could do. Consistent with the anime.
In Chapter 35, we get intel that there's 5 more Otsutsuki's than Kaguya.
One strong ass woman wouldn't need an army unless she's fighting other people, and there's 5 other people that we know other than just Kaguya.
Momoshiki: To steal the chakra of the planet, including the one inside Naruto and Killer Bee. Specifically wants Kurama's chakra. Again.
Kinshiki: Same as above.
Isshiki: Same as above.
Sasuke notes that he's bad news after he finds out Isshiki's juubi, his clan, and his goal.
He didn't say that after calling his attack simple or getting hit by him, he says that after he finds out about his GOAL.
So from that, we can safely conclude that threat ≠ Ap.
What's a greater threat?
Someone protecting you. or someone who wants to drain your planet of energy?
Turn Otsutsuki's into fruits that boost his strength. (Damn, Kaguya).
Or, unless this guy here is a threat to Konoha, so he > Kakashi, Tsunade, Jiraiya, Guy, everyone, and Sai killed him, making Sai above all of those people. Base Naruto scales to Sai, so Base Naruto > Sai > Kakashi, Tsunade, Jiraiya, Guy, and everyone else right?
Debunk
Things That Will Be Ignored
I care way too little.having someone like tempest liking it too
Idk you in real life, you don't know me in real life.
I'm not gonna feed this bs when nothing is gonna happen from it.
Arguments
Sinister:Momo was stated a greater threat and sasuke witnessed ETSB
Sasuke saw a sun in her sand dimension and kakashi stated she was planning on destroying her dimensions. Heck sasukes job is exploring kaguyas dimension and he still stated momo was a greater threat. So is don’t see where this vague argument is coming from
Secondly, you saying because the verse is hax that must mean hax is being referenced is nothing but headcannon and generalization. Thirdly, the greater threat statement is because kaguya feared the two from sasukes exploration of her ruins and momo and kin has no hax, your holding on to absorption like it’s a big deal when it’s not considering he got beat by taijutsu alone. If kaguya feared absorption all she needed to do was her taijutsu or her palm techniques or any of her durability negation hax like ash bone
That's that.
Issues with your arguments
You never debunked thisTrue. Didn't counter.
You answered with false equivalence, even though his point was that threat level doesn't always count as AP.
You never explained why it would be AP. You connected strength w/ thread level and never proved it.
You noted his absorption not being an issue and how he got beaten by taijutsu alone.
That was the point.
Kaguya doesn't even use taijutsu. In fact, scaling off of other Juubi Jins, she's vulnerable to taijutsu.
We know Momoshiki starts fights off with absorbing. Here, here, here, here, here, and here. He even tried to absorb Naruto's rasenshuriken in the anime.
Every time he attacks post absorption, it's using ninjutsu he absorbed. Here, here, and here.
Timeline
Sasuke says his statement on chapter 5 of Naruto Gaiden, before Momoshiki was introduced. So this...has no weight, since Momoshiki and Kinshiki weren't even revealed at that point.
The Naruto Gaiden series went from May to July of 2015 while the Boruto Movie came out in August of 2015, so the argument of "he didn't use that when Sasuke said it" is invalid since these are characters that we've never seen before that statement.
Let's get down to business shall we.
Sasuke says his statement on chapter 5 of Naruto Gaiden. He says this because Kaguya was amassing an army full of White Zetsus (which is on the same page, consistent with the showing).
- White Zetsus have the ability to copy the chakra signature of any individual they touch. Albiet weak, they're good deceptions, and she has 100,000s of them.
- Kaguya making an army of fodder that she scales over 100,000x in AP (as they had 100,000 Zetsus in the war) doesn't make sense.
Momoshiki was revealed in Chapter 2 of Boruto. No punches or kicks are thrown at that point in time. Sasuke had no idea of what he could do. Consistent with the anime.
In Chapter 35, we get intel that there's 5 more Otsutsuki's than Kaguya.
What to infer from the timeline
Sasuke found out that Kaguya was creating an army.One strong ass woman wouldn't need an army unless she's fighting other people, and there's 5 other people that we know other than just Kaguya.
Things to note
Threat Definition:
- a person or thing likely to cause damage or danger.
- "hurricane damage poses a major threat to many coastal communities"
- the possibility of trouble, danger, or ruin.
- "the company faces the threat of bankruptcy"
Goals of the Otsutsuki.
Kaguya: To protect the planet (episode 55).Momoshiki: To steal the chakra of the planet, including the one inside Naruto and Killer Bee. Specifically wants Kurama's chakra. Again.
Kinshiki: Same as above.
Isshiki: Same as above.
Sasuke notes that he's bad news after he finds out Isshiki's juubi, his clan, and his goal.
He didn't say that after calling his attack simple or getting hit by him, he says that after he finds out about his GOAL.
So from that, we can safely conclude that threat ≠ Ap.
What's a greater threat?
Someone protecting you. or someone who wants to drain your planet of energy?
Momoshiki's "Non Existent Hacks"
Absorb chakra based substances. Can shoot them back at twice the strength. (Damn, all of Kaguya's).Turn Otsutsuki's into fruits that boost his strength. (Damn, Kaguya).
Conclusion
Threat Level ≠ StrengthOr, unless this guy here is a threat to Konoha, so he > Kakashi, Tsunade, Jiraiya, Guy, everyone, and Sai killed him, making Sai above all of those people. Base Naruto scales to Sai, so Base Naruto > Sai > Kakashi, Tsunade, Jiraiya, Guy, and everyone else right?
- 152
- 14
Lol you do know hes gonna ignore everything you said especally the threat section
- 202
- 39
So you went from saying his absorption was the reason why he said greater threat, to draining energy from the planet how amusing. Once again using a threat statement that has no similarity to the “greater threat” statement (fodder ninja). The context of your “debunk” is riddled with so much brain gymnastics and assumptions, Occam’s razor would be proud 
. Kinshikis goal isn’t to steal chakra from planets he ain’t authorized since he is not on that rank. Your also assuming the broken otsutsuki panel was also what kaguya was preparing for, there’s literally no info about that broken panel so that’s just headcannon. Kaguya cut ishiki in half while he was off guard and stole the ten tails seedling, ishiki was seen lying on the floor, kaguya left him to die so she wouldn’t be worried about him. That just leaves momoshiki and kinshiki she was preparing for, and it matters not what her plan was and if it made sense or not, Kaguya is literally brain dead. Momoshikis absorption would be nigh useless against her if they fought, kaguya has only used two chakra based attacks and that’s eight palms and ETSB. She fights mostly with her hair, teleportation ability, and ash bones. And going off of this wikis logic she wouldn’t be able to use ETSB without the god tree Shinobi alliance chakra (stupid), which leaves her eight palms technique which she has only used once during her whole fight with naruto, and momoshiki has never shown to absorb techniques like that, infact it would be awkward to even imagine him throwing back that technique. Which leaves only Physical stats to consider. Shisui wouldn’t be a greater threat cuz he lacks the speed and reactions to not get blitzed and one shotted. Comparing both kaguyas techniques and momoshikis you see a clear difference, momoshiki would not be able to utilize his absorption at all against kaguya and kinshiki literally only uses brute force, kaguya fights via using the environment mostly which momo can’t absorb, which points to kaguya being afraid of their physical stats
. Kinshikis goal isn’t to steal chakra from planets he ain’t authorized since he is not on that rank. Your also assuming the broken otsutsuki panel was also what kaguya was preparing for, there’s literally no info about that broken panel so that’s just headcannon. Kaguya cut ishiki in half while he was off guard and stole the ten tails seedling, ishiki was seen lying on the floor, kaguya left him to die so she wouldn’t be worried about him. That just leaves momoshiki and kinshiki she was preparing for, and it matters not what her plan was and if it made sense or not, Kaguya is literally brain dead. Momoshikis absorption would be nigh useless against her if they fought, kaguya has only used two chakra based attacks and that’s eight palms and ETSB. She fights mostly with her hair, teleportation ability, and ash bones. And going off of this wikis logic she wouldn’t be able to use ETSB without the god tree Shinobi alliance chakra (stupid), which leaves her eight palms technique which she has only used once during her whole fight with naruto, and momoshiki has never shown to absorb techniques like that, infact it would be awkward to even imagine him throwing back that technique. Which leaves only Physical stats to consider. Shisui wouldn’t be a greater threat cuz he lacks the speed and reactions to not get blitzed and one shotted. Comparing both kaguyas techniques and momoshikis you see a clear difference, momoshiki would not be able to utilize his absorption at all against kaguya and kinshiki literally only uses brute force, kaguya fights via using the environment mostly which momo can’t absorb, which points to kaguya being afraid of their physical stats
- 202
- 39
You got ignored after you forget major evidence and claimed kages > base momo, I don’t waste time on nonsensical arguments.
- 152
- 14
I conceded the the only point i forgot
You failed to provide any shred of evidence thats your problem.
So you believe new 4 kages are stronger than haishrama and madara??. Yes or no its a simply question. I want a clear answer for this question
Depending on your answer im going to see if its actually worth my time arguing someone or its a lost cause
- 786
- 1,166
Are we still questioning if Momoshiki and Kinshiki are stronger than Kaguya in 2020?
- 2,676
- 2,702
It wasn't, Jesus Christ. The lore with regards to Kaguya is pretty linear. People used one image where Amado is talking about Kaguya and Isshiki to say that Kaguya had rinne-sharingan all along when it is just a representation as he has never seen Kaguya at all. We know Kaguya only had Byakugan at first before eating the fruit and getting her 3rd eye and becoming the rabbit goddess. The only other explanation is that her 3rd eye was closed back when she showed up with Bayakugan only but there's no evidence for this so far.
- 12,001
- 16,711
Mrks....
- 786
- 1,166
it's not only that image.
Those murals show how Momoshiki looked before coming to Earth, so it would show Kaguya before she came to Earth too, and she has the Rinne-Sharingan.
The people who said she ate the fruit to get the eye didn't even know that the Juubi was Kaguya.
And most of the time, the information we are given about Otsutsuki are either wrong or incomplete.
(Hamura not existing at all, Hagoromo beating Kaguya alone, Kaguya not existing at all, BZ not existing, Juubi and Kaguya being separate entities, Kaguya coming to Earth alone, God Trees mysteriously landing on planets when they are actually planted e.t.c)
- 2,676
- 2,702
People are really losing he plot. Nothing that even Isshiki has done scales to ETSB so far. I know people are confused about Otsutsuki scaling but I think a better way to look at it is that each has their own strengths. Nothing Momoshiki can dish out can compare to Kaguya's overall AP but he has busted absorption abilities compared to other Otsutsuki and can even combine absorbed attacks. He is also one of the best CQC fighters we have seen in the series so he's better than Kaguya in that regard. As for Isshiki, he has shrinking and even absorption which make him a menace when fighting him even if you have Rinnegan like Otsutsuki. Of course his physical stats are the best among the shown Otsutsuki so far but he doesn't have any huge energy blasts capable of vast environmental damage like Kaguya or Momoshiki.
Each of them have their own strengths but so far no one without a Juubi like Kaguya should scale when it comes to stuff like ETSB cause they just do not have the power source. Momoshiki using a few pills + Kinshiki who became equivalent of a fruit or Isshiki absorbing some young miniature Juubi's Chakra should not scale to absorbing and fusing with an entire tree + all the Chakra of people alive in the world. The only reason Kaguya probably can't utilize all her power is because she wasn't a warrior.
Last edited:
- 152
- 14
If you believe that momoshiki and kinshiki are stronger than kaguya then your literatlly admitting thatAre we still questioning if Momoshiki and Kinshiki are stronger than Kaguya in 2020?
that garra, darui, chojo and rock kage have surpassed madara and haishrama.
Not even tobirama, hirzuen, 3 sannin, sakumo, hanzo or even minato in sage mode + kurama mode surpassed haishrama and madara but yet you believe and expect others to believe that 4 kages that arent even special in anyway managed to do what other prodigies amd genius failed to do. Yeh good luck with that
Kinshiki couldn't even get out of a restrained seal that was powered by chojo and rock kage.
We have seen in naruto franchise if your stronger than the person making the seal you can break it
Examples:
Madara breaking seal powered by shukaku and garra
Sasuke breaks danzo seal
Kcm naruto breaks seal
Rikdou obito breaks seal made by 4 hokages
Haishrama manages to immobilize madara with seal jutsu
Madada only broke free when he was regaining his strength back when he was alive as in becoming stronger than edo haishrama
The empirical evidence proves that momoshiki and kinshiki are weaker than haishrama and madara even in their edo form let alone kaguya. Unless your admitting the new kages are god tier levels in naruto verse
- 12,001
- 16,711
Last edited:
- 2,676
- 2,702
You were making sense before taking it too far in the opposite direction. We have already seen Adult Sasuke vs Kinshiki and it was a close fight with Kinshiki sometimes overpowering adult Sasuke in terms of physical strength. Momoshiki did beat Naruto when he attacked the village during the exams. Sure it wasn't a full fight but he still won that exchange. So unless you think adult Sasuke and Naruto are weaker than Madara and Hashirama, anyway, no matter how much I feel they have been nerfed, I still wouldn't claim something like that.
- 15,592
- 16,260
Okay, this is not an argument. Unless you can find in the Boruto manga where it says they’re beneath Hashirama and Madara, you literally cannot just assume they’re beneath them. Hell, Gaara fifteen years ago could deflect hits from Madara’s Susano’o with his sand.
