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Naruto: Sakura Uchiha speed update

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Mattheus198 said:
I only requested the sub-rel reaction, not the combat speed, because he can only do it with Raikiri.
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Why would Pre-War Kakashi have Sub-Rel Reactions when he never reacted to any Sub-Rel Attacks?

War Arc Kakashi is High 7-A and Sub-Rel for fighting and keeping up with Rinnegan Obito, V2 Jinchuriki, 6th Gate Guy, KCM Naruto.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
That seems to imply that a human Nagato would be capable of taking on both Mangekyou Sharingan Itachi and Nine Tails Chakra Mode Naruto (it was NTCM, right?) in his Mechamaru-state (i.e., literally on life support).
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I'm just emphasizing that nagato when he revived was so weak that itachi helped him to walk
 
OneBleachHurricane said:
Why would Pre-War Kakashi have Sub-Rel Reactions when he never reacted to any Sub-Rel Attacks?

War Arc Kakashi is High 7-A and Sub-Rel for fighting and keeping up with Rinnegan Obito, V2 Jinchuriki, 6th Gate Guy, KCM Naruto.
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Because Kakashi from the fight against Sasuke is in the same shape as in the war, he has not undergone any training in a short period of time that would justify him being superior.

He can only do that with raikiri, I've been saying this for hours.
 
Mattheus198 said:
I'm just emphasizing that nagato when he revived was so weak that itachi helped him to walk
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Yeah, but he is certainly more capable than he was while he was alive. Kabuto summoned the Edotensei with a fraction of their power, but it is very apparent that Edotensei Nagato > alive Nagato. Nagato as an Edotensei can walk and function normally without life support and Konan by his side, something an alive Nagato cannot say, and he is capable of utilizing his powers, including those of the Rinnegan, himself rather than through the Six Paths of Pain. He is a fair more capable body, now that he has been reanimated through a healthy body, so the argument that near-vegetable Nagato >= Edotensei Nagato is moot.
 
OneBleachHurricane said:
So you believe War Arc Kakashi should be Downgraded to 7-C and MHS+ then since all his feats in the War Arc were because of Raikiri which is what makes him High 7-A and Sub-Rel.
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That’s not it, but the chidori | Raikiri gives a very high impulse speed and we know that the Guy 6 gate is very fast, but Kakashi can only achieve this feat with this, otherwise he would not need it, because with the natural speed he would do it.
But none of this prevents him from having a visual reaction with the Guy 6 gate, because he has the sharingan, the point is to react physically.

Also because the base guy is MHS + just like Kakashi, but with the 6 gates he is at least 5x faster. So it doesn't make sense for Kakashi base mhs + to follow someone at least 5x faster, so he uses raikiri because it gives a good speed that allows him to follow.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
Yeah, but he is certainly more capable than he was while he was alive. Kabuto summoned the Edotensei with a fraction of their power, but it is very apparent that Edotensei Nagato > alive Nagato. Nagato as an Edotensei can walk and function normally without life support and Konan by his side, something an alive Nagato cannot say, and he is capable of utilizing his powers, including those of the Rinnegan, himself rather than through the Six Paths of Pain. He is a fair more capable body, now that he has been reanimated through a healthy body, so the argument that near-vegetable Nagato >= Edotensei Nagato is moot.
Click to expand...
Well, the nagato had almost all its vigor destroyed by the rinnegan, but with the puppets, it resizes to the pain you want, which in this case is Tendo, and had the same attributes as the original body. There is the Kabuto chakra, but it is only because of the technique, just like Orochimaru did with the hokages and Tobirama noticed, that does not say and never gave any indication of increased attributes.

Nagato edo tensei revived in the same way he died, weak, thin and debilitated, and it doesn't make any sense in nagato to revive in the way he died and be better, that's why Itachi had to charge him, now with Bee chakra , he has recovered all his vigor and can fight alone.
 
OneBleachHurricane said:
And why is it not? You said that all of Kakashi's feats in the War Arc were done through Raikiri, and that Pre-War and War Arc are the same. So why shouldn't Kakashi be downgraded or have his War Arc Key removed or merged with Pre-War Key?
Click to expand...
Like this? All I am talking about is that this Kakashi from the 5 kage dome arc has a sub-rel reaction because of Sasuke's arrow, being that he is in the same shape as the war, as we have already discussed this. Reacting to Guy with 6 gates only proves that he already had a sub-rel reaction because of the arrow, not least because he had no training to justify an increase in attributes.
One thing marries another.
 
Mattheus198 said:
Like this? All I am talking about is that this Kakashi from the 5 kage dome arc has a sub-rel reaction because of Sasuke's arrow,
Click to expand...
Sasuke's Susanoo Arrow isn't Sub-Rel as stated numerous times.
Mattheus198 said:
being that he is in the same shape as the war, as we have already discussed this.
Click to expand...
That's what you discussed which isn't currently accepted by the Wiki.
Mattheus198 said:
Reacting to Guy with 6 gates only proves that he already had a sub-rel reaction because of the arrow, not least because he had no training to justify an increase in attributes.
One thing marries another.
Click to expand...
Still not accepted by the Wiki.

And if you believe that Raikiri is an Speed Multiplier comparable to the 5X Multiplier of the Eight Gates then you have to make another CRT to get that accepted.
 
OneBleachHurricane said:
A Flecha Susanoo de Sasuke não é Sub-Rel como afirmado inúmeras vezes.
Click to expand...
Dude, ignoring this goes against the verse, because in some chapters, there is nothing to say that Kakashi trained reaction for 20 chapters, and the combat feats like accompanying Guy is with the raikri. You are ignoring it because you want to.
This is the same kakashi from the war, of course.
And the arrow totally exceeded the physical speed of Kakashi, who just didn’t take speedblitz on account of Kamui.
And for someone to overcome the reaction of an MHS + it has to be at least sub-rel.
OneBleachHurricane said:
Sasuke's Susanoo Arrow isn't Sub-Rel as stated numerous times.

That's what you discussed which isn't currently accepted by the Wiki.

Still not accepted by the Wiki.

And if you believe that Raikiri is an Speed Multiplier comparable to the 5X Multiplier of the Eight Gates then you have to make another CRT to get that accepted.
Click to expand...
Isn't it clear that Kakashi with raikiri when he accompanied the Guy 6 gate?
don't need CRT
 
You're the one trying to upgrade Pre-War Kakashi's Reaction Speed to Sub-Rel based on Reacting to Sasuke's Susanoo Arrow which is currently rated as MHS+

You're also the one that said that Raikiri is a Speed Multiplier comparable to the Eight Gates 5X Multiplier

Either stop using Sasuke's Susanoo Arrow and Kakashi's Raikiri as a basis for your upgrade or make another CRT to upgrade Sasuke's Susanoo Arrow to Sub-Rel and make Raikiri a 5X Speed Multiplier
 
Honestly dude, if you wanna upgrade Sakura so badly, you're much better off trying to scale her to KCM Naruto. At least there's some support for that method.
This roundabout approach is just weird to me.
 
Mattheus198 said:
Dude, ignoring this goes against the verse, because in some chapters, there is nothing to say that Kakashi trained reaction for 20 chapters, and the combat feats like accompanying Guy is with the raikri. You are ignoring it because you want to.
This is the same kakashi from the war, of course.
Click to expand...
That's not how this Wiki sees it, which has been this way for a while.
Mattheus198 said:
And the arrow totally exceeded the physical speed of Kakashi, who just didn’t take speedblitz on account of Kamui.
Click to expand...
And? The Arrow's still only accepted as MHS+
Mattheus198 said:
And for someone to overcome the reaction of an MHS + it has to be at least sub-rel.
Click to expand...
That is not how this Wiki operates
Mattheus198 said:
Isn't it clear that Kakashi with raikiri when he accompanied the Guy 6 gate?
don't need CRT
Click to expand...
Then close this CRT since CRTs are no longer needed to prove anything.
 
War Arc Kakashi scales to KCM Naruto in speed.
Pre War scales to base Naruto in speed.

They're definitely not the same
 
Mattheus198 said:
As I said in the text, this is the same Kakashi who is at war, he did not have an upgrade in his physical skills during this short period, so everything applies to both.
Click to expand...
Pre War Arc Kakashi is MHS+ while War Arc is sub-rel, so it's not the same considering pre War Arc scales to the likes of Deidara, Kakuzu and Tendo.
Mattheus198 said:
In fact, we don't need to know precisely the speed of the Susano'o's attacks to see that the deeds are far inferior. Jigen fought against Sasuke and did not despise any of his attributes, but rather praised the sharingan and the space-time techniques, that is, sasuke was giving Jigen work with the space-time techniques and his dojutsu reinforced by the attributes such as reaction and speed (we all know there is no point in having a dojutsu to predict movements and not having the speed to dodge attacks).

Jigen only shows disregard for the susano'o AFTER Sasuke attacks him with the sword, and then decides to test the susano'o's resistance, not least because the susano'o is known as absolute defense.
Click to expand...
Sasuke's perfect susanoo isn't inferior to Sasuke. This is just a nonargument.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
Ay's Lightning Cloak is only rated as Sub-Relativistic because he massively upscales from Taka Sasuke, who is "At least Massively Hypersonic+"; Amaterasu manifests as swiftly as its user can perceive, and A moved faster than Sasuke, even with the Mangekyou Sharingan, could see, thus evading the attack's activation. Then, A proceeded to effortlessly bully around Sasuke, nearly defeating him, with little effort. That is why he is Sub-Relativistic. Sasuke has no reason to downscale from a man who blitzed him; that's nonsensical.
Click to expand...
Ay's V1 and V2 cloaks are in the same key as sub-rel. Three tomoe Sasuke has the reactions to dodge V1 elbow.
 
I quite literally explained why he could not and should not scale.

Using the Mangekyou Sharingan, Sasuke managed to narrowly dodge Ay's elbow once. On the other hand, Ay managed to defeat and/or blitz Jugo twice, casually react to Sasuke and raise his guard an instant before the former strikes, side-step faster than his eyesight can keep up with, before swinging faster than he could even react to. Outside of that one lucky strike at the beginning with his Chidori, Ay left Sasuke completely defenseless.

It's also noted that his perception and reaction speed have accelerated to the point that they rival the Fourth Hokage's, who scales to a younger Obito with a Mangekyou Sharingan and can react to Ten Tails Jinchūriki Madara's Truth-Seeking Orbs from a distance. Ay himself was capable of keeping up with an Edotensei Madara and lasted quite some time against four Madara clones, each with their own Susano'o; although, all the Kage were eventually defeated. Taka Sasuke has no feats nor any scaling that come close to any of this, adding further to the idea that Sasuke does not scale to Ay, let alone Lighting Cloak Ay.
 
Remember when Shunshin was a speed amp?

We need to separate his speed w/ shunshin, since his Shunshin was FTE to Sasuke.
 
Isn't the Body Flicker Technique just the user moving really fast, like the Rapid Movement from Dragon Ball, or am I missing something?
Also, we gotta figure out what naming scheme we want to adhere by on the Wiki.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
Isn't the Body Flicker Technique just the user moving really fast, like the Rapid Movement from Dragon Ball, or am I missing something?
Click to expand...
It's that but it can be combat applicable and it's mainly used to travel long distances.

Ay used Body flicker to blitz Sasuke.
Naruto used Body flicker to blitz Kisame.
Minato used Body flicker to arrive to the battlefield before the other Kage.
Naruto used Body Flicker to intercept Madara and Obito, and he used it to blitz the bijuudama that were about to hit Guy and Kakashi.

Shunshin is ignored on the profiles, it needs to be implemented
 
Nullflowerblush said:
Also, we gotta figure out what naming scheme we want to adhere by on the Wiki.
Click to expand...
Yeah let’s not, the last time someone tried that, we ended up with every jinchūriki being said to have Kyuubi cloaks.

We all know what these terms mean, there’s no need to try to use one uniform naming system.
 
It seems that the only way is to show a chronological order.
I will start with the Kakuzu bow until I end up in the war.

Well, we see kakashi surprising Kakuzu (Yes, Kakuzu was on his back), but Hidan and the others don't even see Kakashi's trail, and he was using raikiri, meaning no one saw or reacted to Kakashi with raikiri. At physical speed, Hidan accompanied Kakashi, and he is MHS+ just like Kakashi, but previously Hidan did not see him visually and much less physically.

Resumo, neither of them got over the reaction.
<Hidan> Accompanied Kakashi at physical speed (MHS +) and had no reaction to Kakashi with raikiri

(Now let's go to the arch of the dome of the 5 kages.)

Chapter 484: Sasuke MS vs Kakashi fight begins.
the brief fight ends in chapter 487. I don't need to narrate much here, because the only thing that really matters is that Kakashi didn't have a physical reaction to Sasuke's arrow, but just visual with Kamui.

In chapter 488, everyone goes back to Konoha, including Karin

In chapter 489, '' the prep for war begins. There all the shinobi are gathered. ''

From chapter 490 to 514, they are Obito and Kabuto revealing the akatsuki edos, flashblacks of Invasion of the kyuubi in Konoha, konan vs Obito and Guy vs Kisame.

In chapter 515, the battalions are already divided, and even Kakashi is a leader of a battalion


You may be wondering why I showed you these chapters. Well, from chapter 488, in which Kakashi and the others go to Konoha, until chapter 515 that the battalions are already formed, there is nothing more than the 5 kages gathering forces and Obito and Kabuto preparing the Edos Tensei and the white zetsus . Anyway, what I mean is that the shinobi came together for the war, that is, everyone was very busy with the preparations. And that supports what I always said here that Kakashi, like all the others who were in the alliance, he is in the same shape as before the war.


And a good example that sustains Kakashi being in the same shape is the fact that he fights against Zabuza edo.

In chapter 521, Kakashi from the war again accompanies Zabuza in the edo version, and in chapter 522 too.
As far as I know Zabuza is MHS +.

Zabuza
Speed: Massively Hypersonic+ (Kept up with Kakashi)



Anyway, let's recap?

* Kakashi's fight against Kakuzu and Hidan: He accompanied Hidan, both MHS +, and no one had a reaction to Kakashi with raikiri.

* Kakashi from the war against Zabuza: He accompanied Zabuza, another MHS +.

Conclusion: Pre-war Kakashi was accompanied by MHS + shinobi, and Kakashi from the war is accompanied by Zabuza, who is also MHS +.
What everyone has unusual about Kakashi is that no one was able to accompany him with the raikiri, with the exception of the Guy with 6 gates.
 
Literally just take the statements of Sakura reaching Naruto’s level during the War and apply that to speed.

Because trying to say Raikiri is the reason that Kakashi is Sub-Rel isn’t gonna cut it.
 
Mattheus198 said:
What everyone has unusual about Kakashi is that no one was able to accompany him with the raikiri, with the exception of the Guy with 6 gates.
Click to expand...
The fact that Raikiri isn't accepted as a High 7-A Amp or 5X Speed Multiplier for Kakashi in this Wiki.
KingTempest said:
War Arc Kakashi scales to KCM Naruto in speed.
Pre War scales to base Naruto in speed.

They're definitely not the same
Click to expand...
KingTempest said:
If you want the wiki to stop saying "no" to you, you'll need it accepted
Click to expand...
As KingTempest has said get Raikiri accepted as an AP and Speed Amp First if you want the Wiki to stop saying "NO" to you.
 
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